newbie have questions about robots

[Rengoku]

There is a simple reply to this question in regards to automation! There is not EA out there that can match trading manually period! I dabble in EAs for a hobby, but I trade manually! Look at what has happened in the recent past... 2 of the biggest named EAs are basically worthless... FAPT and MD!!! It’s because the brokers can see what you are using and counter them... don’t believe me... find this ebook “Beat the Forex Dealer by Agustin Silvani” I’ll tell you one thing for sure... trading manually you are already behind the eightball! Now throw in automation... something that cannot think for itself... and you have a losing situation! Now, don’t take what I'm saying as negative... its not! Like I said I play around with EAs... they just need constant supervision... so then my question is why not trade manually then??? Another thing... if you think about it, why would someone that has built this automation program that can make you a lot of money sell it for a mere $100??? Remember that FX is a zero load game!!! Someone has to lose for you to win!!! So again... why would they invite the competition? The only EAs out there that perform are the ones that are created by YOU! Using your strategy... Lastly, I think that if anyone wants to trade in FX... they should have a good understanding of what this game is all about! Know the ropes... know what the EA is trying to accomplish! That way you have a better chance of not blowing your account!!! Just my 2 cents!

[Naynay]

Originally Posted by Rengoku

Look at what has happened in the recent past... 2 of the biggest named EAs are basically worthless... FAPT and MD!!! It’s because the brokers can see what you are using and counter them...!

Scalpers are much easier for brokers to clamp down on... simply because they are susceptible to spread widening and spikes.

EAs that don't use this strategy have a vastly better chance of succeeding if the logic is sound (which is rare)

[Rengoku]

Originally Posted by Naynay

Scalpers are much easier for brokers to clamp down on... simply because they are susceptible to spread widening and spikes.

EAs that don't use this strategy have a vastly better chance of succeeding if the logic is sound (which is rare)

Exactly! The problem with automation is it is based on mechanical indications... since most (if not all) indicators are based on what has happened and not what is happening it makes any short term EA susceptible to broker manipulation! Even the higher time frame EAs are susceptible to a certain degree. When I first made the change from stocks to FX... I was always on the hunt for indicators... thinking I could find the one that will give me that edge!!! Then it grew into the search from the EA that would beat the broker and let me just say that lasted for around a year! Now I have come to the realization that nothing but my own judgment and knowledge will help! While I still use indicators to some degree... I based my trades primarily on the candles and what they are tell me... and its paid off! The point I wanted to make to some of the new people joining the ranks in FX... there is no grail! There is nothing out there that will give you that edge except for what is between your ears! Simple as that.

[Rengoku]

Originally Posted by Naynay

In my opinion, the holy grail is amongst the manual trade strategies used by professional traders that have not been coded into EAs (yet). In any case, getting such an EA to run is going to require some manual trading acumen combined with coding skills, a bucketload of persistence and patience, and a small amount of starting captial.

Another thing I wanted to comment on... your statement above. I totally agree with you... less the grail part LOL!!! But unfortunately, this will never become a reality on the MT4 platform... it cant! It is simply so restrictive in what can be done... if the EA gets too large then speed will become a problem... to small... well then its missing too much logic to function as intended! Now, this can be done today!!! But you would need to go to a broker that offers an API and program it in a real language such as C++, C#, or even VBNET... something like that but it will not be possible with MQL... at least not MQL4... maybe MQL5???

[James Dealbert]

Originally Posted by Rengoku

Exactly! The problem with automation is it is based on mechanical indications... since most (if not all) indicators are based on what has happened and not what is happening it makes any short term EA susceptible to broker manipulation! Even the higher time frame EAs are susceptible to a certain degree. When I first made the change from stocks to FX... I was always on the hunt for indicators... thinking I could find the one that will give me that edge!!! Then it grew into the search from the EA that would beat the broker and let me just say that lasted for around a year! Now I have come to the realization that nothing but my own judgment and knowledge will help! While I still use indicators to some degree... I based my trades primarily on the candles and what they are tell me... and its paid off! The point I wanted to make to some of the new people joining the ranks in FX... there is no grail! There is nothing out there that will give you that edge except for what is between your ears! Simple as that.

I do agree on that part, most EAs based their trading alghorithym on indicators (that is past information) and are not price oriented, which is the current information. Therefore, one can expect that most of them will have severe difficulties when predicting the market. That's precisely why I believe that EA testing sites are the of so much value, they help us (robot traders) significantly.

[david wood]

Originally Posted by James Dealbert

Thx a lot David and Paralotnik. I've checked both of this sites and both tests are made on Demo, which I strongly believe that is not reliable.

This is a common mis-conception. There may be differences between execution on real-money and demo accounts (only with "scalping"-type robots!) but they are no more dramatic than differences between account on different brokers.
The reason is simple: the Forex market has no central exchange like the commodities or stock markets.
That being said, if a robot has a winning strategy it will most likely be good with any broker.

Oh, and those micro lot "real-money" accounts used by that site... they are treated by the broker exactly like a demo account. so them claiming to test on real-money accounts in no more than hype.

[James Dealbert]

Originally Posted by david wood

This is a common mis-conception. There may be differences between execution on real-money and demo accounts (only with "scalping"-type robots!) but they are no more dramatic than differences between account on different brokers.
The reason is simple: the Forex market has no central exchange like the commodities or stock markets.
That being said, if a robot has a winning strategy it will most likely be good with any broker.

Oh, and those micro lot "real-money" accounts used by that site... they are treated by the broker exactly like a demo account. so them claiming to test on real-money accounts in no more than hype.

David, I disagree completely. Demo and Real Money testing are really different, used with or without scalping robots.

The same can be said about microaccounts and demo accounts. I have runned parallel accounts with the same robots and the results have been completely different, try it and you will see.

[paralotnik]

Originally Posted by lasrenee

If i'm new to trading and don't know anything about trading, just now starting out, can i have a robot to do trades or i will still need to know information about trading, i know i will still need to get an understanding of how trading works but just need opinions. I see people in this forumn say they use robots.

Hi
Welcome to forex world! I recomend babypips school to start.
2nd, get a demo account get comfortable with an MT4 so you know how to place, modify,close a trade, this is important when you use an a EA (robot) and something is going wrong and you need to step in.
I'm fulltime trader and I use megadrid (EA), frexgator (signal service) and trade manualy. In my opinion it is better to start using signal service so you can analize signals and learn from it. Good luck.

[david wood]

Originally Posted by James Dealbert

David, I disagree completely. Demo and Real Money testing are really different, used with or without scalping robots.

The same can be said about microaccounts and demo accounts. I have runned parallel accounts with the same robots and the results have been completely different, try it and you will see.

I definately tried and compared micro account with "regular" demo accounts. The differences are due to the execution servers being different.

HOWEVER, and this is crucial, micro-account servers are un-monitored and do not ever dispatch trades to the "real" Forex market. They essentially run unattended in a closed loop - exactly like a demo account. I verified it with an aquintance who works at one of the large brokerage firms.

Therefore testing strategies on a "real-money micro account" is exactly like testing on a demo account!
No pros but actually one con: it uses ridiculously small trade sizes