quote of the day…
[B]I see no reason why you would be freaking out in front of a bunch of failed socialists who are to be swept away in the closest election.[/B]
A few comments.
• This has been a lively discussion, and I hope it continues. This thread has generated more replies and more views than any other thread on this (Rate my Broker) sub-forum. Obviously, the info, and the perspective, and the advice that you guys have brought to the table — have struck a chord with many folks in our trader community. Please keep it coming.
• Nobody knows how things will shake out after July 16. The anxiety that surrounds that date reminds me of Y2K: the sky is falling, it’s going to be the end of everything! Well, maybe, but I doubt it.
Offshore brokers who find themselves in the CFTC’s crosshairs are operating with an abundance of caution, because like the rest of us they don’t know what lies on the other side of July 16. Personally, I think the next 3 months, or so, may present us with some opportunities that we can’t even predict, at this point.
• ES (ElectricSavant), I have enjoyed reading your last dozen posts — longest good-buy in the history of forums! Personally, I hope you don’t mean it. I hope you will stay with us, and continue to contribute. Look at it this way: Where else can you vent to your heart’s content about everything that’s bugging you, and know that you’re reaching such a wide readership?
• Jacob (bravehoststamps), I’ve noticed that you haven’t had much to say about FinFX lately. How would you compare and rank these brokers: FinFX, InvestorsEurope, MBTrading and Oanda?
• Later tonight, I’ll (reluctantly) remove ACM from page 1 of our List, and move the List to the end of the thread. Until the “July 16” dust settles (in a few months), I’ll let the red-highlighted changes to the List accumulate, so that we can see the overall effect of this summer’s regulatory bullsh!t.
Here is my ranking of brokers:
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MBTrading. They have been my primary broker for a long time and remain as of yet for a lack of better alternatives. Not a bucket shop of any sort, fast execution regardless of the amount traded, glitch-free MT4, prompt and professional customer service, lowest spreads on majors in the industry, micro lots starting at 0.01. Their only disadvantage is the 1:50 leverage limit.
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Investors Europe. Availability of high leverage of up to 1:400, micro lots starting at 0.01, MT4 available along with several other platforms, no negative feedback on the web whatsoever (and they’ve been in business for over ten years), no restrictions on hedging, no FIFO rule in place, high privacy protection standards, very competitive spreads on majors, attentive and knowledgeable customer support (both technical and legal matters), and, most importantly, acceptance of US customers upon signing a non-solicitation disclaimer. They are domiciled in Gibraltar, a former British colony in continental Europe and now a prominent offshore jurisdiction.
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Oanda. Low spreads (yet higher than those of MBTrading), recently introduced MT4 in addition to their custom platform, professional customer service, micro lots starting at 0.01, a forum on their website where one can raise any issues, ask questions, or simply discuss various matters with fellow traders. Nonetheless, as a CFTC-registered broker, they have the 1:50 leverage limit in place similar to MBTrading. ElectricSavant has also noted some tech issues with their MT4 which was introduced just recently, but I never had problems with them in my trading and therefore did not even notice them.
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FinFX. Domiciled in Finland, an old EU member state, which is a very solid jurisdiction by all means. MT4 available, no hedging restrictions or FIFO, acceptance of US customers, yet their spreads are higher than those of the above three brokers and they don’t offer micro lots starting at 0.01.
I am always in search for more brokers, since I love to have plenty of options and to diversify. The observations of other forum members would be greatly appreciated. The above four brokers all accept both individual and corporate account applications. There are also plenty of offshore brokerages that accept only corporate applications from the US customers provided their companies are foreign-based. Yet that’s a tricky area, so I decided to keep it simple for a start and concentrate only on those brokers where no foreign company is required of a US customer to open a trading account.
I never thought I’d see a day come in the United States in which American citizens would enjoy fewer rights to operate in a given international financial market than the citizens of nearly every other country on earth. I never thought I’d see such dictatorial regulations placed on free, law abiding citizens. I mean, I knew our government was far from perfect and getting worse as time went on, but I didn’t think this kind of heavy handed financial tyranny was possible.
Are there any lawyers reading this thread who are willing to take the CFTC to court? It would be really nice for a high powered firm to step up here. I think nearly any judge in the land would recognize the excessive, dictatorial and punitive nature of these regulations. Similar regulatory overreach has been struck down in the past, and I think most any court would be sympathetic to how draconian these regulations are.
Also, could someone explain a bit more about what that crap is about “prohibited counter-parties” and how it prohibits foreign banks from serving us?
Hypothetically speaking, I wonder what would happen if over time the major domestic Forex firms went out of business for some reason. Would the CFTC maintain its regulatory stance, effectively banning Forex altogether? I can’t see how this isn’t an illegal grant of monopoly to domestic companies. What gives them the right to restrict the free market in such a comprehensive way?
I think it’s fairly clear that if we care about our financial rights and liberties we have to try to fight this burdensome encroachment with every legal tool at our disposal.
Well, the majority voted for change. Now they got what they voted for: Change. Or not?
The easiest path right now would probably be to found a small company for trading and do it offshore at a tax heaven. This entity would not be seen as US customer, but has it’s own presence in the country of choice. So, that entity could use then any broker in the world. You even get way better tax rules bundled with it. If you want make really big money that is the path anyways to go sooner or later …
Bravehoststamps,
I am interested in Investors Europe & would like to contact them regarding opening an account. I am a US Resident, so I was curious about the manner in which I would need to contact them in order to be able to open the account. Would be able to provide some instructions on how exactly to go about this.
I believe you just have to say you heard of them from a source other than their website, since that would be considered solicitation. For instance, if I said a friend of mine referred me, would that work?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
X
[QUOTE=bravehoststamps;268015]Here is my ranking of brokers:
- Investors Europe. Availability of high leverage of up to 1:400, micro lots starting at 0.01, MT4 available along with several other platforms, no negative feedback on the web whatsoever (and they’ve been in business for over ten years), no restrictions on hedging, no FIFO rule in place, high privacy protection standards, very competitive spreads on majors, attentive and knowledgeable customer support (both technical and legal matters), and, most importantly, acceptance of US customers upon signing a non-solicitation disclaimer. They are domiciled in Gibraltar, a former British colony in continental Europe and now a prominent offshore jurisdiction.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, you can say a friend of yours has referred you or that you read about them in the following article which I just found on the Reuters website: Institutional FX Brokerage House Investors Europe Ventures into the Retail Market | Reuters
I think based off this fx spread (gather-er, collecter-er) website, that ACT brokers based in the good old USA have the best spreads, even after you calculate commissions.
FX Intelligence Analyzer: Compare live spreads and quotes from multiple brokers
If your trading style is spread dependent its a good tool when searching for brokers, in my opinion.
Seems like Investors Europe is as I understand it, a collector of shell companies. In a funny, humorous way, I imagine
a guy sitting at a desk with a big ole’ file cabinet behind him, with each yellow folder having a company in the binder, and the guy is stamping each company “Reliable! Fresh! New! Stable! Solid! We Good!”.
Some one calls the company, and the guy checks his list of companies and says “Yes! I am a representative of that company here, and I can vouch for them. I even have power of attorney, or as the american’s call it, ‘The Funds Withdrawl Method’.”
Joking of course. Reminds me of Isle Of Man.
Rredhunter
As I’ve mentioned earlier, one doesn’t need a foreign shell company to trade with Investors Europe. A signed non-solicitation disclaimer is all it takes for a US individual customer to open a trading account with them.
Only if it were that easy…
[U]NewsFlash[/U]
7 Lawsuits filed by the CFTC against offshore dealers for violations of the Dodd Frank act.
Injunctions filed and until relief wire fraud issues being evaluated and accounts frozen.
All reciprocating banks involved in wire transactions with prohibited transactions/counter-parties being investigated.
International treaties and regulatory reciprocating agreements could be at stake…
This is just a fictional post, but a scenario that could unfold…Soo…what happens to your money?
ES
Actually, this already happened last year: </title> <meta content=“MSHTML 6.00.6000.16981” name=“GENERATOR” /> <script id=“ssInfo” type=“text/xml” warning=“DO NOT MODIFY!”> <ssinfo > <fragmentinstance id=“fragment1” fragmentid=“web_header” library=“server:NAVIGATIONFRAGMENTS”> </fragmentinsta
As you see, the US CFTC has only been able to go after firms with some business presence (telephone lines, servers, IBs etc) on the US soil.
I am aware that this has already happened…as a matter of fact Insta-Forex froze all of the accounts from the USA as an excuse to hold on to money…
Ask absolute poker what just happened to them…Where are the players money now…??
Do you guys really want to take this chance? I guess it is all true…Retail Spot Forex Traders are really just $200.00 gamblers…hehe…they will pay 35 buck wire fee’s to just get their fix…Surley they would not wire substantial amounts under the current state of affairs…would they? Put in all on red what the heck…lol
ES
P.S. Traders please be careful and I wish you the best…really…but let go…just let go…trade something else if you just need to trade…You got to know when to fold-em’ walk away while you are still lucky…the writing is on the wall…
P.P.S. Let’s say you find the dealer that is willing to skirt the law with you…someday you can look forward to the future wrath of the USA…and then what happens to your money? do the owners of the postbox in Mauritius or Gibralter or the caymans… abscound with your money or do they do the right thing and mail you an international money order (the only instrument left). If you have a susbstantial amount of money there is really not an untrackable way for them to tranfer it to you…but I guess you all know you will lose at Forex anyways…so what the heck…play 7’s…
InstaForex has been a known scam for long, so they sure deserved to be busted. Plus, they were dumb enough to have an IB and a server in the US, for which they precisely got sued by the US CFTC and which Investors Europe does not have.
Yes, I do aim at making a list of offshore brokers where I can open small accounts without forming a foreign corporate entity. For large amounts, I would form a company, just like for any other large business.
bravehoststamps…
Just let go…in a few days Forex will be distant to you…Turn off the candlesticks that you love so much…
There are help groups for you, if you feel you need them…
God bless you and may you escape from this trap that you are in without too much pain.
The fact that you cannot let go and take a break should get your attention…you do not NEED to trade …I hope.
ES
P.S. Even if I am wrong (I am not)…take a break…it can’t hurt you.
Very interesting reading.
Has a list of brokers been put together that, to the best of our knowledge, have no business presence in the US?
I’m new to the forex trading arena and this CFTC bullying has got me a bit worried that I won’t have the control I thought I would enjoy when I finally go live.
You still have the US brokers like MBTrading or Oanda as your options if the 1:50 leverage limit if not a problem for you. Both are registered with the US CFTC and fully regulated by the US government.
With MBTrading, Oanda, Investors Europe, and FinFX being available to me, I have no problem whatsoever. All of them perfectly meet my trading needs.
It’s funny back in the 80’s and 90’s a neighbor and a dear friend of mine bought two mansions in Beverly Hills and owned two Rolls Royces and had lots of numbers that had zero’s in the bank…He had full time help in both estates and was quite the businessman.
Anyways…
He sold tax shelters and when the tax laws changed his business ended by the end of that year…just like that.
Funny thing he had never been audited before…but after the change mysteriously there were audits every year and other mysterious harrassments that I cannot mention as I do not know of them all…lets just say…there were some interesting scenarios…
Anyways…
Lets say you guys are like me and do the right thing and declare your profits to the IRS and arrange your books to be legal…after all that is why this CFTC thing has come to pass with the Dodd-Frank act…it is because the offshore firms do not report to the IRS and you cannot be audited as they do not cooperate…Anyways…do you want to be audited…hey…other things can happen with the US Atty General…or maybe the local police get a bug up there ass…You know journalists would love your story… do you really really want to go there?..
Welcome to Socialist ObamaStatesofAmerica…hey have you heard the latest breach of the constitution?..there is talk of just giving the decision to raise our debt ceiling to Obama the man…all by himself…forget the constitution…
Things are happening in the USA right before our eyes…We have are own brand of egalitarianism/socialism/communism.
Never think that these regulations cannot affect you just because of some piece of paper an offshore dealer has you sign…If you guys are so naive to walk into the face of disaster then you deserve to lose your 200 bucks…or whatever you gamble with…I hope it is not more…
ES
Most of us don’t have two mansions in Beverly Hills and two Rolls Royces. Moreover, the CFTC is mandated to audit and regulate only financial institutions and not their clients.
As for the USSA (the United Soviet States of America), there’s still one thing our Russian rivals didn’t have in the 80’s - free elections.
free elections…
anything can change.
The illusion of freedom…haha…Welcome to the USA…
The system broke…get ready for change when the worldwide depression begins…you aint seen nuthin’ yet…there is no way that every American can cough up 42K to pay off the debt…when the USA drops its final card and does not pay the treasuriy bonds and is forced to halve the SS# for our elderly…well Russia’s starvation will look like a cake walk…
People pull your head out of your ass and wake up and smell the roses…pleeeese.
Your not going to make a dime in Retail Spot Forex…and if you are talented enough to make that dime try to cash in…
ES