Going offshore to escape the CFTC

Broker Discussion Forex Brokers
3792

I wanted to share something else with you guys. I also have an AssetsFX account which I am still able to use but don’t because I tried some risky things and ended up blowing up the balance. Since Profi and Traders Way have been so reliable, I’ve stuck with those two. Nevertheless, I found this interesting. This is copied straight from the email I received with no modifications except for URL’s because I can’t post those as a new member.

[I]

Dear AssetsFx Client,

We are upgrading our system and changing our servers. For you this will mean more symbols to trade including CFD’s.

This process will require that you activate a new account on our new system.

Please read carefully and follow the instructions below as they have been updated since our previous email. If you account has already been transferred, you can ignore this:

  1. All open trades in your account need to be closed by 5/27/2016.

  2. After having closed all trades, please go to assetsfx/Account/Open-Live-Account and fill out the form. Submit the form and you will receive an activation link in email. Once confirmed, you will receive a user name and password to our new Client Area and in a separate email your new account credentials. Since we already have your documentation, you don’t need to upload verification documents.

  3. Once we see that you have opened the new account, we will transfer your funds to your new trading account as soon as possible. If you want to expedite the funds transfer, please email to accounts@assetsfx

  4. Login to you current trading account and take All History from it as soon as possible.

  5. All open trades will be closed by us on Friday May 27th at 3pm ET.

  6. Our new MT4 can be downloaded from download.mql5/cdn/web/7389/mt4/assetsfx4setup

Thank you,

AssetsFx Trading Team
[/I]

Which was then followed up with this email less than an hour later.

[I]

Dear AssetsFx Client,

If your country is not listed in the country selections at assetsfx/Account/Open-Live-Account(for example USA), please choose Australia as the country.

Thank you,

AssetsFx Trading Team
[/I]

Seems a little fishy to me. I gotta a kick out of it so I thought I’d share.

3793

Cool.

It’s not fishy, at all. — Actually, it’s very clever.

Reading between the lines, I think [B]AssetsFX [/B]is telling you that their “official” public position is that they don’t accept clients from certain countries — but, as an existing AssetsFX customer, your position is secure.

Nobody (read: CFTC) will ever know that you trade with AssetsFX.

•

FUCFTC

.

3794

[QUOTE=Clint;767399]Cool.

It’s not fishy, at all. — Actually, it’s very clever.

Reading between the lines, I think [B]AssetsFX [/B]is telling you that their “official” public position is that they don’t accept clients from certain countries — but, as an existing AssetsFX customer, your position is secure.

Nobody (read: CFTC) will ever know that you trade with AssetsFX.

What about US citizens who live overseas for years. Are they still banned by these fx companies based upon their citizenship only? I want to open up a managed account at Berndale Australian firm which is more reliable but they don’t offer managed accounts to new account holders (not sure even if they open up accounts for US citizens ). I am new to fx and would like to which firm is best for me for a managed type account since I am quite new to this forex business and simply reading up on your posts is making me realize I need to get up to speed to learn something new but due to health issues I can’t devote my full time to learning new right now. But I would like to have a small managed type account free in offshore jurisdiction. Read about fxglory but they don’t offer managed accounts. Tallinex I am still wondering about since I have read forex peace academy reviews on them. Berndale was the only one that I liked from your recommendations.
To Clint, thanks for keeping a wonderful post and all your work and dedication to put all the information in very detailed manner.
Any help on managed forex account in stable jurisdiction regulated off course is most appreciated.

3795

Hello Guys,

I logged in to my account to say thanks to the thread starter. I found my broker via this thread. I am regular member of forexfactory.
My broker is Berndale capital.
Broker is regulated by ASIC and is accepting us clients as of now. It looks like they have same feed or liquidy providers as tickmill. Commisions are little higher but not that bad. Execution is pretty fast …average 70 to 90 MS and my vps is 20 MS away from nearest server.
I would gladly provide any questions you guys might have.
I am in no way just promoting this broker …if you want i will provide my Myfxbook link to this broker.

Thanks again for this wonderful thread.

3796

Always use a LIVE account. Demo teaches you very little, because the lion’s share
of “learning to trade” is learning to cope with the uncertainty when in a trade, coupled
with the pain or pleasure at the trade outcome. Learn how not to stop out too soon,
and to tolerate the discomfort associated with being (temporarily) underwater. I advise
a limited amount of “adding to a losing position” or “averaging in your favor”. A limit
amount, mind you … Work on a multiple entry VWAP position, not on a single price point.

OK, aside from the issues of “learning to trade” and whether that’s even a legitimate concept
in general… I would advise you to use high leverage, e.g. 500:1 leverage offshore brokers,
such as Tradersway, with modest account sizes so that you will “learn emotionally” from your
actions by having a small amount of “skin in the game”. At the same time, although you must
be careful using leverage, you can do 10x as much with the same money offshore.

So keep this in mind… No (real) pain, no real gain. DEMO accounts are an "academic exercise"
so always aim to use (small) risks in Live accounts. IMHO.

Now, as for “how can I win at trading?” that’s a question which involves much more than
what standard traders typically use… 'nuther topic, 'nuther time :slight_smile:

hyperscalper

3797

G

Thanks for verification but do they offer managed accounts for anyone since they state they have closed it for new investors. I am trying to get clear answers here and I don’t live in USA.

3798

Why don’t you ask Berndale directly?

Here is their email address: <[email protected]>

Or you could spend a couple of bucks, and use the telephone: +61 3 8609 9789 (Australia)

.

3800

M

Why don’t you ask Berndale directly?

Here is their email address:

Or you could spend a couple of bucks, and use the telephone: +61 3 8609 9789 (Australia)

Well I had tried all last week calling them but due to my country’s poor telephone connection with Australia specially I was unable to get any connection at all. Sent an email to them too but they never responded to my email also. So I was trying to see if maybe someone here on this forum had any experiences with them for managed accounts.
Somehow I am unable to call some countries specifically. While US, UK or Canada calls go very quickly, some countries we have problems in accessing their landlines or mobile numbers. Internet connections here are very quick too with 100 Mbps speed that I have on my plan so I doubt infrastructure problems. Problems are worst only on NZ and Australian calls.
Thanks for the email address and phone number Clint but as you can see that I have already tried doing that. I am also trying to find out if someone has any good comments about their managed accounts specifically.
Tallinex is one other service that I like to try out too although I have read some negative reviews about their managed accounts. Being a newbie in forex, I even blew up demo accounts too.

3801

Hey Tim,
You said that you’ve been living overseas for years.

Good news! CFTC regulations apply to residency not citizenship. You should be able to use your local ID documents to open an account with just about any FOREX broker in the world you wish. No need to constrain yourself to the broker list here. Enjoy your trading freedoms!

Now, regarding managed accounts. It’s your money of course, but I think those are a very bad idea. You may get lucky and find a profitable managed/PAMM account, but that only reinforces the bad behavior of letting other people manage your money.

Remember ye olde stockbroker’s creed, “churn 'em and burn 'em baby, it’s happy hour!”:16:

3802

Thanks Shatner. Since you don’t live overseas you don’t know what is happening these days. All banks, brokerage accounts make everyone in the world sign FATCA forms certifying you are not US person or have any connections to US or they will freeze your opened accounts or close it or will not open it if forms are not signed. No matter what even if you have a second passport, you still have to sign them. Once they see you have US indicia, they will tell you sorry we can’t open up your account based on your US citizenship not your residency or second citizenship. US govt is giving very hard time to everyone the world over not just including its citizens based overseas.
All banks, brokerages the world over even tiny islands are requiring this form signed and everything is reported to IRS so you can’t do on your residency alone. On the other hand, if you try to invest in US brokerage account they will tell you that you are not welcomed since you are living overseas. I know a lot of people are having problems in keeping their US credit cards or brokerage account if they know you are living overseas now. Yes you have to go to USA to open up a brokerage account and give them a US address. Even they don’t wish to deal with US citizens based overseas anymore. Too many regulations they have to put up with. There are other ways to open a US based account from overseas which I don’t wish to discuss on forums. But we are here on this blog to avoid CFTC and US based accounts.
Regarding managed account thanks for giving me tip. I thought Berndale would be better since they are regulated by Australian govt. I don’t trust managed account too much but I have been blowing demo accounts also so I am very nervous about a live account.

Regarding CFTC yes it does apply to all US citizens living overseas too. Hotforex and so many countless forex agencies rejected me due to my US connection only even when I am dual citizen and a resident of another country.
Thanks to Clint, I was able to find these brokerages that would allow me to open up an account with them. But most of them don’t offer managed and Tallinex is only that is mentioned several times on this forum that does offer it. But on google reviews tallinex is considered bad for managed accounts.

Live long and prosper Shatner!

3803

Thanks for your candid comments, Tim. Sounds like things overseas are even worse than I thought. It’s an embarrassment that our Government would purposefully create such troubles for citizens living in foreign countries.

I think it is the sneaky rules passed under the 2010 Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) giving you troubles. For example, the banks that Hot Forex uses probably told them they won’t accept deposits originating from US citizens because they don’t want to deal with FATCA reporting rules.

FATCA has also restricted US citizens from using many third party payment processors such as OKPAY, Webmoney, Perfectmoney, etc, popular with FOREX traders for deposit/withdrawals. And on top of all this, the recent NFA ruling against credit card payments has caused even US based payment processors like Paypal and Moneybookers to restrict deposit/withdrawals to FOREX brokers.

But don’t give up checking around with other brokers beyond Clint’s list. Maybe consider “FXCM Markets”, a non-regulated subsidiary of FXCM Holdings. I remember it was about a year ago that Jason, an FXCM customer support agent who frequents babypips, forex factory and other forex blogs, explained how a US citizen with residency papers in another country could get an account there. You can read more about FXCM Markets here:

https://www.fxcm.com/markets/about/why-fxcm-markets/

In any case, best of luck with your investments!

3804

Thanks Shatner, yes it’s far worst when I have been a tax paying citizen all my life even filing from overseas everything. It was costing me more to file forms for everything that I would not have to report if I was living in US. Some of the forms were just exact duplication of forms that CPA charged me for.
I am retired and I just want to play with a few thousands to see if I can make a little on the side plus to get to see more of this world. Banks all over the world are shunning US citizens telling me your govt is a nightmare to deal with. They charge them withholding taxes of 30 percent for non reporting. Plus freeze their correspondence accounts for foreigners too that they think are doing anything wrong. For example banks like FBME and BPA in Andorra were shut down completely due to Russian and Chinese depositors. Our govt thinks they should control everyone in the universe for everything. Carribean banks mostly have lost their USD correspondence accounts. Try opening an account in HK and Singapore even if you are a foreigner with no US indicia. They are simply denying foreigners too thanks to all regulations put down by US govt as one if them told me also that we are told now not to open up accounts for non HK or no Singaporean residents too and it is all due to USA govt. Regarding hot forex etc I believe they want to avoid Dodd Frank Act. It’s not just a matter of foreign accounts reporting from banks but forex companies trying to avoid other regulations imposed by our govt.
Thanks for FXCM tip. Their managed accounts are reported on this forum as complete scams. I think I will try Tallinex. I am using US based checking accounts nowadays because banks were closing down my little accounts everywhere. They just want to avoid US citizens period and this is an issue I am seeing and reading about the world over from other expats. No wonder renounciations are increasing.

3805

Hi, I’m Sam new to babypips, planning to change my broker - slippage, high spreads and dodgy support staff are some of the reasons. finpro features the top 5 brokers list that im researching on , can you tell me how your journey has been with them so far?

3806

Hi, Tim - just wanted to clarify that Tallinex is NOT “considered bad” for managed accounts - our managed accounts are, in fact, excellent.

However, excellent infrastructure does not guarantee that the 3rd-party managers making use of that infrastructure are going to make you heaps of money (any more than it guarantees they won’t).

All of our public managers have account histories on MyFxBook so you can easily analyse their trading style and determine whether that style matches your own risk profile. If it doesn’t, you should look for a different manager.

Unfortunately, few people take the time to research anything - deciding, instead, to select a manager based on a cursory glance at an equity graph… then b*tch and scream like little girls and post things around the web when their manager hits a bad spot and they’re staring at 80% draw down.

Is this the fault of Tallinex? Of course not… the same people do the same stupid things when choosing managers at other brokerages, via mirror services such as ZuluTrade, Collective2, MyFxBook, etc., and especially with signals services like the one built in to MT4/MT5 now.

The bottom line is that people simply can’t accept responsibility for their own laziness / stupidity / lack of judgement and feel that implying blame lays elsewhere is the best course of action.

3807

Tallinex, I actually did a Google search and many people did give you bad reviews. I saw the three mentioned managed accounts on your web page and one of them has continuously performed better than the other two shown.
I am glad you are on the forum though to give us a clearer picture. Please do not blame that all those clients of yours are stupid, lazy and have lack of judgement. There maybe a few but everyone that usually takes the step of opening up a forex account does do some homework as it is a highly volatile market. Are you going to tell me that people who chose this manager of yours are stupid ?Trade2FI-MAX PROFIT System by Tallinex | Myfxbook

I do see something strange with this trader mentioned above though. This trader has the same name as the other link above but with different record.
Trade2FI-MAX PROFIT System by Tallinex | Myfxbook

What is the difference between the two of them with exact same name?

3808

All successful trading requires some human intervention. EAs are not all perfect, although they are helpful as far as I have learned from forex gurus.

3809

Hi, Tim

In point of fact (and for various reasons), the very vast majority of managed clients join schemes after doing little to no prior research, so I won’t retract my comment regarding that. My point is that people mostly consider the “headline” and ignore the main article. If you’ve considered all the facts and are comfortable with the risk of a particular manager’s strategy then that’s fine, but if you’re one of the many people who join a clearly riskier managed scheme and then start ranting because your account is down 30% then the fault is entirely your own.

As for the two links you mention, one is the verified feed from the manager’s PAMM and the other reflects an unverified account - possibly a previous account with a different broker that appears to trade a different strategy.

As for “bad reviews”…

First of all, there are are at least two sides to every story, but those who post bad reviews only ever present the facts as they see them.

In the main, these reviews are left by people who suddenly decide that various stated and/or common-sense rules should not apply to them. We frequently encounter people who refuse to provide requested ID and/or proof of address and/or card ownership, or get angry because we do not allow 3rd-party funding of accounts.

Similarly, people have joined managed schemes that stipulated various participation rules… and they electronically signed their acceptance of said rules, only to scream and shout when they wanted to breach those rules and were refused.

Ultimately, experience has shown that people with insufficient knowledge of trading and/or market behaviour will post bad reviews about any and every broker on the planet, but many times the review lacks substance, so you need to read between the lines… for example:

"xxx broker opened my trade at 1.45250 when the price was 1.45000"
What the poster omits is that their broker is ECN and their trade was opened 5 seconds into NFP (few people appreciate that the Bid/Ask prices shown by an ECN broker reflect the last prices transacted, not the price they will be filled at … this is entirely different to the Bid/Ask prices shown by market makers, as they reflect the prices the broker is offering)

"xxx broker triggered my buy stop order but price didn’t reach my level"
Typically, the poster will be unaware of the fact that buy stops are triggered by the Ask price, but charts are drawn from the Bid price

"xxx broker closed my trade early - price never reached my SL"
Many clients are totally oblivious to the concept of stop-out and cannot comprehend that they actually need an adequately-funded account to trade unhindered

Basically, 99.999% of bad reviews (especially related to Tallinex) are due to abject stupidity / ignorance on the part of the poster and, sadly, the vast majority of posts / complaints come from US residents who really do themselves no favours in that regard.

3810

The profiles do not list USA as a country of residence. So you can have troubles to do the funding even if they like you. Maybe the bank wire will still work. Most payment options are blocked by USA I understand. Hurry before Trump builds the wall and seals you in!

3811

I would suggest Forexbrokersinc they offer small accounts: micro ecn where 1 lot is equal to 1000 1/100th of a standard ecn, not to mention very low spreads almost as good as a non micro account, and they accept all clients and are highly rated! On another note i am suprised nobody has mentioned the problem with many brokers disabling MQL5’s signal providers, tallinex allows them but i tried lmax and assetsfx even a ib of dukac does not have the ability to copy signals, note: signal tab will show in demo accounts but will be removed in live and there is no work around, as you can see in the forums at MQL5.com i also contacted them, apparently it is broker dependent just like VD plug ins the broker chooses their MT4 options.

3812

If a broker is not genuinely ECN/STP then a good signal provider spells big potential losses for them - this may be the reason.