Finpro was 0.2, Profiforex is around 0.2-0.25, AssetsFX (where I am now) is around 0.3-0.35…
0.7 was on the fast side for TW. Most were over one second.
Many US banks block international transactions on debit cards (that’s a good thing). Just call accounts services and they’ll put a 24 hour lift on the block. With my bank I have to give them the country of origin (typically China in Trader’s Way’s case) and I’m good to go.
Clint, et. al.
FWIW…couple of edits my be needed on post #1 for brokers ForexBrokersInc and Tradersway.
Tradersway minimum deposit on ECN is $10. They’ve been running that as a “Promotion” for several years now.
ForexBrokerInc offers a mini account which has a .001 standard lot (100 units) minimum trade size. Only listed broker I’ve found with that option. They’re minimum deposit, however, is now $100
I wanted to follow up about Profiforex - they have fixed the issues that I was having with withdrawals (half of it was my mistake), and thus they’ll continue to be my primary dealer.
Thanks, guys, for holding down the fort in my absence.
I have removed all the red ink from the List.
Later tonight I will add 9 new names to the Alphabetical List of (miscellaneous) offshore brokers.
Sometime this week I will update the LINKS on post #7.
Monday (5 September) is a bank holiday in the U.S. and Canada. Trade accordingly.
More, later.
Clint
.
Hi,
I’d like to continue to support Tradersway.com MT4 as a “Trusted Broker”.
Quick summary of what I’ve been doing. Had to move my server to Miami,
using a dedicated Xeon box from ServerPronto.com. They have “POPs” or
“points of presence” in Holland, I believe, and MetaTrader 4 Terminals running
on the server report a ping time of about 100 milliseconds to Tradersway’s
MT4 ECN servers.
For Order executions, we are doing things very unconventionally… Using Java
over the NJ4X.com API, a “pool” of MT4 terminal.exe processes is managed to
do the Order Entry. We are seeing very consistent Order Entry times in the
800 millisecond range or faster. Not the fastest, but Tradersway continues
to be (IMHO – in my humble opinion) one of the best “bangs for the buck”
around. 1) good pricing, better than Dukascopy often, 2) high leverages
of 500:1 up to sizeable accounts at least in the $10k range, with good consistency
in response.
[EDIT: for latency sensitive operations, contact the broker, and see
whether better terms are available for your particular trading business.]
So, all in all, a very solid partner. Any rumo(u)rs of “pricing glitches” are definitely
NOT true. I am always comparing them to a Dukascopy feed, so very consistent
from a technical perspective. I have posted their spreads min/avg/max previously.
I have such a huge software infrastructure in this project that we are barely now
starting to ramp up the trading effort. The intrastructure we have coded is able
to “scan” and to simultaneously manage positions across the 28 major Currency
Pairs 24x7. IMHO, again, the use of automation is the only way to achieve
a significant “living wage” off trading; and to sleep at night as well 
hyperscalper
Looks like Forex Brokers Inc is not accepting new live accounts right now. I wanted to switch my account over to them since they allow /CL futures, but not now.
Anyone know of a broker that allows /CL for US citizens? Trying to use that instead of WTI spot.
Hi,
So I had some time to get back over to the UK and our FinProTrading.com
(aka TurnkeyFX) for some performance testing, as they had several months
ago said they had “low latency” accounts.
Our software maintains a histogram of Order Operation latencies, so it’s
very easy to see. WOW ! Even with our 100 msec “ping” latency from our
Miami based server from ServerPronto.com (no intention of being unduly
commercial, but can recommend these guys, since they have “POPs” or
points or presence around the globe…). FinProTrading places limit orders
at an overall round-trip latency of 160 msecs (minus the 100 ping time)
so they’re taking 60 msecs on their end…
And they “flood” our software with Tick data, roughly 4x the incoming tick
data of an ordinary broker. I had to dig in and optimize the Tick processing
across our 28 Forex Currency Pairs, to handle the load.
So, if you are a “latency sensitive” client, FinProTrading.com MT4 ECN variable
spread accounts are really excellent for SCALPERS. My main trading style is
not scalping, but let’s say I have an overall position using 10 separate
price entries, giving me a VWAP Entry price, and then I want to close
ALL 10 of those positions, then LATENCY MATTERS. In my case, the Java
uses NJ4X.com API with a “pool” of about 3 terminal.exe processes which
do “overlapping” or “parallel” Order processing, which means we can
close things “pronto” :))
ONE MORE THING. And here I need to be discreet, since many brokers who
are U.S. friendly really NEED to keep some details confidential and do not
want everything in the blinding light of day. Wink wink !!!
PLEASE REQUEST FROM YOUR BROKER things like better leverages, or even
better performance. Believe me, they will work with you and they can
certainly deliver…
IF YOU ARE DEVELOPING A significant trading operation, these brokerages
very much value your business, in general, and they will work with you
on technical and on Funding issues; but they MAY NOT want to make all
of that information public on this forum, as is should remain private to
their clients.
I can certainly understand their position, given the relentless pressure which
CFTC intends to place on their business and livelihoods… So don’t be afraid
to contact them, and request preferential treatment. In many cases, you’ll
be amazed what they can do for you
hyperscalper
Hi HyperScalper - are you moving away from manual scalping then?
A mix of both, de-emphasizing very short term trades because, after all is said and
done, it takes TIME for prices to move significantly. And also because I’ve put so much
into our Currency Strength analytics, which is best for moves from 8 hours to 2 days or so…
But I guess what is unusual about the Currency Strength is that it can also be used for scalping,
for 10-15 pips or so, either with automatic triggers; or manual ones.
So the real answer is, it’s a “mix” of the two; but certainly in the area of Trade Management,
that’s where I need the 24x7 Position Management monitoring and profit taking, so that’s
auto-magic across the 28 Currency Pairs 
The most significant reason for getting away from Manual Trading is the “scalability” of the
operation, and the fact that a trader (being mostly human) is unable to watch over positions
24x7 and keep the trades straight… Can’t get rich using manual trading, IMHO
To keep this relevant to the CFTC thread, there’s no doubt that 1000:1 or 500:1 beats
50:1 hands down !! But remember “with great power comes great responsibility”
[edited for a typo…]
hyperscalper
HEY GUYS, why not post intelligent items? FinProTrading.com (aka TurnkeyFX) has a fast,
tight, stable data feed for the 28 major Forex pairs. WTF are you talking about??? At this
very moment, I’m using a FinProTrading.com ECN account, and they do not “f*ck” with their
data feed. Geez, guyz . I do not know anything yet about Profiforex, so I can’t say, but for
Tradersway.com and FinProTrading.com for FOREX, they are very hard to beat. Here’s a
screenshot showing their pricing GBP/JPY, and this is just after the recent BOE GBP rate announcement…
They have 60 millisecond order placement times, when you subtract out the 100 msec ping times from
my Miami server, etc… and 400:1 leverage, the list goes on…
[ EDIT: oops my account number leaked onto the image… :(]
hyperscalper
CLINT: please delete one of those images on the prior post.
Pls get rid of the inline image and keep the attachment, I guess.
I couldn’t figure out how to do it… 
hyperscalper
For me, there’s a great attraction to have second-by-second control over trades, and to be
able to predict what the market’s going to do in the next 60-90 seconds. BUT… HEAR THIS:
that is absolutely not the way to make lots of $$$$$ even if you could do it !! As my views
on the Forex market matured, and with a lot of suffering and literally thousands of lines
of code trying to implement this “control freak” approach… after all that, my view is that
it is not the way to get rich.
So I’ve come to believe now that the trades which “normal” traders want, the ones that
move 50-150 PIPs over a day or two; that’s where the real money is. And so, although it’s
hard for some of us, we have to give up that “control freak” obsession and fear which
motivates an attempt to control the trade and “surf the wiggles”.
The most basic thing which was always in the back of my mind, is that “it takes time
for price to move”. That is really the Achilles heel of all scalping. Small moves require
large positions, with what is probably unachievable accuracy in order to make money;
and it will wear out even a younger trader, not to mention those of us who are staring
retirement in the face.
I’d love to make this post relevant to the CFTC topic, but all I can say is that usage of
the offshore brokerages preserves what is best about Forex trading; and the solid
contribution of MetaTrader over all these years (which is showing its age); IRONICALLY
became the bedrock of the new software I wrote to manage trades.
Since it takes time for price to move, there are really only TWO things which are
important:
- Being able to predict the future consistently.
- Managing positions over longer periods of time.
#2 is fairly easy to automate; but #1 is the Holy Grail we’re all looking for.
It is undeniable that in Forex prices move because of “fundamental” relationships
among the world’s major Currencies. So Currency Strength Analysis, simply has
to be the best way to approach things; not analysis of short term "Depth of Market"
or Spike Analysis or Order Flow Analysis or any of those other things. I think I’ve
found my Holy Grail; and now it’s just a matter of scaling a business, etc… and
these offshore brokers are a key way to achieve leverage and functionality which
has been driven out of the U.S. by over-regulation. THIS THREAD has really been
a life saver for me, personally, and I thank Clint for all this effort !!
Just my 2 cents. In conclusion, U.S. people: SUPPORT these offshore brokerages
which allow us to trade Forex as it was meant to be traded !!!
hyperscalper
Minimum, average and maximum spreads
observered over a period of time. These
are MetaTrader 4 ECN Variable Spreads
accounts plus commission. As you can
see, sometimes spreads are very narrow.
This means that Market orders will get
good pricing, but I always recommend using
Limit orders for guaranteed pricing.
Response latencies for these brokerages can
be quite quick. Contact the brokerage for
details, as they will help you to get the
best performance.
With 100 msecs ping roundtrip times
included, we see Limit order placement
times <250 msecs and with FinProTrading,
we see around 160 msecs.
These brokers are flexible and U.S. friendly,
so they can accommodate most of your
requirements.
Tradersway Bid/Ask Spreads
symbol min , avg , max spread pips
AUDCAD, 0.6 , 1.2 , 1.7 #
AUDCHF, 1.0 , 1.3 , 1.8 #
AUDJPY, 0.1 , 0.6 , 1.0 #
AUDNZD, 0.5 , 1.1 , 1.7 #
AUDUSD, 0.3 , 0.6 , 0.8 #
CADCHF, 1.5 , 1.8 , 2.4 ##
CADJPY, 0.6 , 0.9 , 1.2 #
CHFJPY, 0.8 , 1.3 , 2.1 #
EURAUD, 0.3 , 1.0 , 1.7 #
EURCAD, 0.7 , 1.3 , 1.7 #
EURCHF, 0.5 , 0.9 , 1.4 #
EURGBP, 0.4 , 0.6 , 0.9 #
EURJPY, 0.8 , 1.1 , 1.5 #
EURNZD, 1.4 , 2.3 , 3.2 ##
EURUSD, 0.1 , 0.3 , 0.5
GBPAUD, 0.9 , 2.0 , 2.5 ##
GBPCAD, 1.6 , 2.1 , 2.6 ##
GBPCHF, 1.2 , 1.8 , 2.5 ##
GBPJPY, 0.7 , 1.2 , 1.6 #
GBPNZD, 2.3 , 3.4 , 5.0 ###
GBPUSD, 0.5 , 0.9 , 1.1 #
NZDCAD, 3.2 , 3.7 , 4.3 ####
NZDCHF, 2.9 , 3.3 , 4.3 ###
NZDJPY, 2.5 , 2.9 , 3.2 ###
NZDUSD, 0.6 , 1.0 , 1.5 #
USDCAD, 0.5 , 0.9 , 1.1 #
USDCHF, 0.5 , 0.9 , 1.3 #
USDJPY, 0.2 , 0.5 , 0.7
FinProTrading (aka TurnkeyFX) Bid/Ask Spreads
symbol min , avg , max spread pips
AUDCAD, 0.8 , 1.6 , 2.3 ##
AUDCHF, 0.8 , 1.5 , 2.6 ##
AUDJPY, 0.4 , 1.0 , 1.4 #
AUDNZD, 0.5 , 1.7 , 2.5 ##
AUDUSD, 0.1 , 0.5 , 0.8 #
CADCHF, 0.7 , 1.8 , 2.7 ##
CADJPY, 0.7 , 1.5 , 2.6 ##
CHFJPY, 1.5 , 2.2 , 2.9 ##
EURAUD, 1.0 , 1.7 , 2.2 ##
EURCAD, 1.2 , 1.9 , 2.5 ##
EURCHF, 0.2 , 0.8 , 1.4 #
EURGBP, 0.1 , 0.7 , 1.1 #
EURJPY, 0.1 , 0.6 , 1.0 #
EURNZD, 1.6 , 3.4 , 4.0 ###
EURUSD, 0.1 , 0.3 , 0.4
GBPAUD, 1.9 , 2.9 , 3.7 ###
GBPCAD, 1.9 , 3.0 , 3.8 ###
GBPCHF, 1.1 , 2.3 , 3.4 ##
GBPJPY, 1.3 , 1.9 , 2.5 ##
GBPNZD, 3.6 , 5.5 , 7.8 #####
GBPUSD, 0.3 , 0.9 , 1.4 #
NZDCAD, 1.7 , 2.9 , 4.0 ###
NZDCHF, 1.2 , 2.3 , 4.0 ##
NZDJPY, 1.4 , 2.1 , 2.8 ##
NZDUSD, 0.6 , 1.1 , 1.3 #
USDCAD, 0.2 , 0.7 , 1.2 #
USDCHF, 0.3 , 0.7 , 1.1 #
USDJPY, 0.1 , 0.4 , 0.6
hyperscalper
Hey everyone…new to the forum and somewhat new to trading. So I’ve been using FXCM for awhile. I’m a US resident and have no issues as of yet. But…I would like to get into and know more about other things such as trading gold, oil, s&p. I also would like more leverage over the 50:1.
I hear a lot of great things about Traders Way, LMFX and Tallinex but not sure where I want to go and how they’re deposit and withdraw processes are. I don’t scalp so I’m not concerned about a tiny delay in order or a 1pip difference. I’m more concerned about where things are headed here in the US and nervous about shifting my account to someone offshore and what that will mean for me legally, taxes, etc.
I appreciate any tips, links, info to sort through all the noise.
1 Like
I’m going to pardon your ignorance of my particular situation and simply explain what happened.
FinPro had two major series of data outages with their CFD feed - it only affected the DAX from all that I could gather, and I was keeping tabs on all their CFDs to see if it was just a one-off issue, global, etc.
The first incident they claimed fully with open arms as their own fault. I sent the logs that I had to prove it was not a connection issue on my side, that I couldn’t execute trades, etc. I took some losses that they credited within hours, to my satisfaction.
About three to four days later, it happened again, and much worse. DAX was out yet again after NFP. I couldn’t get any trades off (I had open positions I was trying to kill) and they denied any wrongdoing.
So, I sent all of my findings to my bank since I’d funded with my debit card, and issued a chargeback. My bank found me to be in the right and took the original deposit back from the merchant. So please think about it the next time you’re going to ask people to make intelligent statements and consider making one of your own.
It was disheartening to see that kind of reply from you, since you’ve given so much valuable input into this thread otherwise. Hopefully it was just a one-off / ignorance / etc.
SORRY, but all of my comments are restricted to FOREX, and not to any other feeds or
instruments like DAX, etc. So I think that’s why I made my comments; I did not realize
you were talking about NON-FOREX instruments. Please accept my apology for strongly
supporting FinProTrading.com from my experiences so far.
Let’s stipulate that we are both “intelligent” and that should settle things
hyperscalper
If you are concerned about execution speed at Tradersway, and you need much shorter
latencies, contact Joe Carney and explain the situation. Would shorter latencies make you
a loyal customer for the brokerage in question? If so, then they will be very helpful in
addressing your concerns.
However, if you are just “shopping around” then perhaps you can’t expect any forms of
special client status accommodation. I hope you’re understanding what I’m hinting at…
hyperscalper
Yeah, thanks. I spent some time working on the issue with Joe, nothing major but enough to know that I’m not getting any faster than 0.8 seconds for a fill. I can get 4x faster executions elsewhere. Otherwise I would love TW, and I still find them to be a solid choice.
thanks for the clarifications on the other post, btw.
OK, let’s say you can’t get any faster. (I suspect that’s not true…) So, the real question is,
what are you really doing that needs faster fills ? If you use Limits, the latency issue is
diminished somewhat. But, as I said previously, if you are a loyal client who is able to
bring a solid business to TW, then your issue can be resolved. I am not allowed to give
any more details… hyperscalper
My software measures performance, something like this:
Task: SimpleBuyLimit EURUSDi lots: 0.01 price: 1.11498 serial number [ 1 ] started.
Buy Limit Ticket #17936684 submitted.
OrderOp elapsed: 234 msec
task: SimpleBuyLimit EURUSDi lots: 0.01 price: 1.11498 serial number [ 1 ] ended.
Task: <none> serial number [ 2 ] started.
OrderOp elapsed *: <not measured>
Task: CancelOrder EURUSDi serial number [ 3 ] started.
CancelOrderTask : ticket:17936684 run latency: 0
task: <none> serial number [ 2 ] ended.
OrderOp elapsed: 221 msec
task: CancelOrder EURUSDi serial number [ 3 ] ended.
Task: SimpleBuyLimit EURUSDi lots: 0.02 price: 1.11498 serial number [ 4 ] started.
Buy Limit Ticket #17936691 submitted.
OrderOp elapsed: 229 msec
task: SimpleBuyLimit EURUSDi lots: 0.02 price: 1.11498 serial number [ 4 ] ended.
Task: <none> serial number [ 5 ] started.
OrderOp elapsed *: <not measured>
Task: CancelOrder EURUSDi serial number [ 6 ] started.
task: <none> serial number [ 5 ] ended.
CancelOrderTask : ticket:17936691 run latency: 0
OrderOp elapsed: 213 msec
task: CancelOrder EURUSDi serial number [ 6 ] ended.