You knew I’d get to this question sooner or later 
Its a sensitive topic, so I hope we can all be respectful of each other if we discuss it.
Please vote in our other polls too, I think its a great way for us to get to know each other!
http://forums.babypips.com/forextown/34696-poll-your-goals-trading.html
http://forums.babypips.com/forextown/34659-system-discretionary-between.html
http://forums.babypips.com/forextown/34713-poll-your-money-management.html
I don’t see the poll. -nevermind it was a php error.
Hit reload 
The optimist in me says I want to be a millionaire in the next 10 years.
The pessimist in me says I should accept whatever the market gives me and remain an office drone.
Honestly, if you posting on here, asking questions, and still learning, the % of account growth you make should be the last thought in your mind. Instead the minimum expectations you put on yourself should be that you trade within your plan, taking care to not over trade, sticking to proper money management, and trying to absorb as much USEFUL information as possible.
Build a strong foundation for the house before you put the roof on.
To be honest, the choice I selected for myself was “breakeven would be nice”. That should show you that at the moment, I am interested in my technique, not profits per say.
The reason I am asking these questions is because its a) a point of curiosity, and b) to get a sampling of what this community thinks like. I think there’s nothing wrong with that.
With all that said, I think that some traders are too eager to jump down someone’s throat when the question of performance metrics is raised. If you wanted to start a restaurant tomorrow or any other kind of business, you most likely wouldn’t say “I don’t care about the money I just want to go into business”. Either way, the bank certainly wouldn’t like that kind of thinking when you come to ask for a loan, neither would your investors.
Cash flow projections and real life may be two different things, but every sensible person who wants to go into business is going to need some basic numbers to go from. Otherwise you couldn’t answer such basic questions such as “how much should I have for a stake before I go full time”
Now, it may sound silly coming from Mr. Breakeven over here talking about going full time, but believe it or not I dare to imagine I’m not going to be sitting in this category forever. Every person who goes into a worthwhile endeavor sets goals - long term, intermediate term, short term. That’s how people succeed in life, read any book about a successful business person and you’ll see it all over.
I have a plan on how I’m going to trade successfully for a living. The plan is certainly open to change as I learn more about the business and get more experience. Its also a good idea to get curious about how other people think, what their attitudes are, what works and does not work for them. In ties with that, why not ask what people expect of their performance, just as I’d ask any restauranteur what their expectations are of their business? After all, we’re not doing this just because we like to watch Japanese candlesticks jumping up and down all day long
Your example of the restaurant is a good one. Unless you are highly capitalized and have a certain format in mind, I dont think you would start a restaurant without having at least some good recipes to fill the menu. You have to start with being able to put out good food before you can even worry about food costs, labor costs, traffic, etc. Maybe I am wrong, but don’t most restaurants fail within five years? Maybe owners focused too much on the money they “could” make, instead of making food that brings customers back …
Of course we are all in this to win this, and making money is our end game. But focusing on the account growth is the worst thing to focus on for most of us on here. Focus on your trading plan, focus on your money management, focus on your psychology, focus on your entries and exits, focus on learning where the money flow happens, focus on finding quality information sources, find your own trading style, etc…
making money is our end game
That is what I focus on. Every thing else about this business all the stuff you mention can be a distraction when it becomes more important to the trader then making money. All of the things you mention are important but the bottom line is making money. This is in many ways the simplest business there is.
If you focus on making money first and foremost all the things Husky mentions will take care of them selves.
Agree with shr1k here. All about money. You have to have losses, but thats just part of the business and not the goal.
Though, I do all of my businesses in a style that I like. If I wouldn’t like trading forex I wouldn’t do it. I won’t prostitute myself for money. It’s just money. Just, if I would lose, why would I like to continue? Then it would not be a business, but a hobby which costs money. Like photography for instance.
You should have a trading plan. Part of that plan should be your targets with regards to ROI, number of trades, risk per trade etc.
You then find the entry method to the market that meets your criteria.
If you did it in reverse you’d end up learning a method which either you cant comfortably perform (because it doesn’t ‘fit’ you) or fails to inspire you because you don’t achieve those goals that you haven’t written down but actually still have in mind.
The point I’m making here is that a focus on account growth is not only acceptable it’s actually what’s going to drive your approach to the market. That said, you may find that your requirements cannot be met with your ability / chosen methods / etc. and have to adjust your requirements. It is through this feedback loop that you achieve a comfortable trading strategy, and each persons will be unique.
Not only will everyone have a different approach to the market in terms of entry and trading requirements but they’ll also have a different risk profile. For instance, you will have those who invest their life savings and aim to make a comfortable 20% pa to give them a good income. At the other end of the scale you will get those who are looking to invest a small amount of capital and maximise risk in the attempt to gain large returns. At the end of the day both traders could well make the same amount of money at the end of the year and both feel that their objectives have been met, despite having different capital bases, risk levels and methods.
Of course we all have goals, and I am not saying that we shouldn’t. My main point is, how many people have we seen come up with a compounding spreadsheet, or something of the like, spending more time focusing on how much money they could make, instead of focusing on how to make money in this venture.
Do you think them men that built great fortunes did it by focusing on the final dollar? I personally do not, I feel they had an idea of what they wanted to accomplish then put infinite focus and attention into the details putting their soul into learning, exploring, defining and redefining the business they had chosen.
Do I have expectations on myself, yes. But framing them in the form that was framed here…“minimal acceptable performance”… seems to put undue stress. In that frame, it almost feels that if you do not meet your objective you somehow have failed and need to claw your way out of failure, leading to excessive risk taking and over trading. Maybe asking the question, “Given your current level of trading experience, what are your expected returns?”
Oh, btw, I do have an expectation on myself but have to balance that expectation with reality. I have been around for a 1.5 year’s, don’t have the benefit of mentorship or previous experience, do not have a huge bankroll, have a full time job, and a full time family with young children. Over that past 5-6 months, my account is up about 10%, has not dipped below 15% loss, and has maxed out at about 20% gains. This was after burning many demo and a few live accounts. This is a demo account, but I have generally found that demo trading and live trading results are about the same for me. Unfortunately the single account that I worked on for months was finally closed, so I had to re-establish a new one with approximately the same balance I had when the other was closed.
Oh yeah, and my current goal right now, to find a couple of like minded traders that can grow together as a group by each bringing different insight and experience.
There’s an important distinction in what you said here, and that is the question of how much time you spend doing what.
I agree that if you spend 50% or even 30% of your time doing compounding spreadsheets, you’re clearly mismanaging your time! But on the other hand, you owe it to yourself to see what is possible given certain levels of performance.
Do you think them men that built great fortunes did it by focusing on the final dollar? I personally do not, I feel they had an idea of what they wanted to accomplish then put infinite focus and attention into the details putting their soul into learning, exploring, defining and redefining the business they had chosen.
I think what a lot of successful people did was they imagined that if they worked hard enough, they would achieve great performance and with that, money.
At the same time, they had to reasonably plan in order to arrive at their destination. For instance, if you want to become a full time trader, you have to know a) how large of a stake you need to have in order to live off what you make, and b) what level of performance you need to expect from yourself.
Another fine point. As traders, we’re really not in the same position as many other entrepreneurs. Outside of extracting profits from the market, we offer liquidity to the market and help the market revert to a ‘fair price’ by acting on its inefficiencies. That is a cool phenomenon, but doesn’t have the same effect on the surrounding world as most other businesses, who provide jobs for others and so on. In the end, its how much money can you extract from the market from your capital base, not how many stores can you open or how many jobs you can provide, how many cool products you can innovate, etc.
Personally I have motives outside of just making money, i.e. money managers like Jim Cramer manage money for charity. But again, if I want to do things like that, I have to say “I need to achieve a certain level of performance to help achieve this goal”. Its that simple.
In that frame, it almost feels that if you do not meet your objective you somehow have failed and need to claw your way out of failure,
In a way, yes.
leading to excessive risk taking and over trading.
And that is exactly what we need to learn NOT to do. Have performance standards but not let our failure to meet them cause us to trade erratically.
Maybe asking the question, “Given your current level of trading experience, what are your expected returns?”
That is exactly what I did with my question:
What minimal level of performance do you consider to be acceptable for you now?
Oh yeah, and my current goal right now, to find a couple of like minded traders that can grow together as a group by each bringing different insight and experience.
I personally really like this forum and meetpips.com. Great places. Definitely not the kind of nonsense you find on elite trader.