If anyone would like to look at us we are tradetheladders I have attached a comparison of our results vs the Top 5 for July our ranking is very low with the new ranking no longer being based entirely on performance but also live followers and dollars. We welcome any questions about us or trading in general.
congrats also on your results thus far
Last edited by tradetheladders; 08-07-2012 at 01:32 PM.
It seems quite high and alot of the systems are scalping.
A couple of ticks would affect profitability quite a bit wouldn't it?
The top trader has an average trade of 6 pips. Average slippage (according to ZUlu) is 2 pips. Add in spread which is quite high with zulu brokers, it does not leave much profit?
Also how do they copy the trades? Is there a delay when signals are sent? 1 pip when signal is sent & 1 pip when trade is opened. 1 pip when close signal is sent. 1 pip when trade is closed.( there would be if their signals were sent based on ticks)??
Also anyone trading with the Zulutrade broker AAAFX?
According to Zulu they have almost 0 slippage. But they have some shocking reviews when it comes time to withdraw funds and spread.
The recommended broker has a partnership with Zulu where they receive more then 1 pip per trade which is why they reco them. The broker is also located in Greece , not to cut on anyone in Europe with the porblems we are all aware they are having it sounds risky.
In the US it should only be 1 pip per round turn. Thats what we (the SP's) are paid off of. The slippage can vary based on what type of system the SP is trading. A scalping system with high amount of trades may actually lose you money.
There is a delay in getting the trades to the follower at times, it depends on how many trades are in the context at the time.
You will also want to look at where a provider takes the profit. If they are always taking 7 pips 8 pips 10pips it may be hard to grow your investment with the commision of the spread.
Also keep in mind that the results and ROI's are based off a running total not a highwater mark. So a draw down of 15% for a provider that has been on Zulu for a while might be based off of a total of 10,000 pips they have already gained not 100.
They also just changed the rankings algorythm. Instead of trade results it now also takes into account the amount of live followers a SP has as well as the amount of money a SP has.
I am not sure how Alchemy works but it sounds like its working pretty good for folks so maybe try that.
Here is the post on how the rankings are now calculated:
Re: What happened
by mariosv » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:46 am
The broker a provider is using does not have any impact on the ranking.
We have recently changed our ranking calculation formula, which gives more weight to providers monthly performance combined with how many live followers a provider has.
If you are not happy with the ranking, please use the advanced search to find exactly the provider you are looking for.
I hope that helps
Last edited by tradetheladders; 08-07-2012 at 01:53 PM.
tradetheladders how long are you trading in forex market? Your system is quite new in zulutrade only 5 weeks old and i wish you good results!
We have been trading Forex for 10years we are located in the United States, We are new to Zulu and looking at it as a way to verify our results while we seek CFTC and NFA accreditation and licensure.
Our trading method uses custom indicators that compare the base currency in a pair with the broader market on a tick by tick basis. The method was designed around a money management philosophy instead of technical indicators. We use leverage as our primary means to protect and grow capital. We suggest no more then $1.00 per pip per $1000 equity in your account. We prefer that a leverage of $.50 cents per pip per $1000 be used.
The reason behind our leverage is as follows. We can be wrong 33 times in a row at maximum leverage and 66 times at preferred. As stated in previous posts if we are wrong that many times in a row we need to find a new job. In addition we call for an emergency stop of 50 pips, and all trades get cut at 100 no matter what. Our leverage is essentially our stop.
To understand our method you need to understand how we came up with it and the theory behind it. An easy way for us to explain this the philosophy based off Bill James and his theory of producing runs in baseball (see and watch the movie money ball). If one applies the principle to the Forex market it brings out flaws in the current way many people approach the market. It is widely accepted that when trading you should try for a 2-1 or 3-1 ratio. This allows a trader to absorb losses and make them up. A trader can have a negative win/loss ratio and still have a winning percentage.
One of the flaws we see in that theory is physcological. It is virtually impossible to not get emotional about your money. If you have ever had 2 or 3 losing trades in a row think about how you felt every time you pulled the trigger did you get more and more nervous with each loss? Did you start questioning the system. Did you start searching forums for more indicators to help you fine tune the method? Did you cut trades short to " get it back a little at a time" If you did do this then the MM you were using was no longer a factor. The mental stress and exhaustion that can come from absorbing multiple losses can start to take a toll and effectively overrule the discipline aspect of the 2-1 MM method. In short you can burn out, quickly get discouraged and overly emotional snowballing your losses.
The second flaw in the 2-1 ratio involves the stop loss end entry . The average currency moves about a 100 pips on any given day. If a trader sets the stop loss at 30 pips. They need a gain of 60 pips. The FX markets are primarily a technical market with fundamentals generally driving price to key support and resistance points in the market where the market will reposition themselves for the next move, based on technicals and speculation of the perceived value of the currency in the future.
So if you set a 30 pip stop you are using 1/3rd of a daily range.If you buy at the absolute bottom of that days range and set that stop it is probably safe and your chances of getting the 2-1 ratio increase. If however you buy in the upper 2/3rds of a currencies ADR your chances of a stop getting hit increases greatly because all pairs pause and retrace. Since the most popular entry points off a retracement are 38.2 and 66 the technical basis on which most of the Forex market is based is now working against you. General market consensus and psyhcology is also against you Since it is perceived that you have a better chance of success when you enter off those points the majority of the market will be looking to get to those points first before acting.
So lets take a look at what happens when you enter in the upper 2/3rds of the currencies ADR. You now have to carry that trade over thru the next day in order to get the 2-1 that is called for. No worries because you have a fresh 100 to work with right? Well not so fast.. Lets say at days end you have 30 pip gain. You only need 30 pips and 100 to work with and in a trending market you may even get more ( since there are 100 pips in the new days range) The only problem is that 100 ADR also goes the other way from the open, meaning your entry point just became the pivot where price can go up or down So if if your stop is set to zero it can be knocked out. with just a 38 retrace. Your chances now since you carried the trade are 50/50 at best that you will get your profit before your stop is hit and the news for the new day is now also a factor.
There is rarely a day in which news does not move the market 30 to 40 pips. Where does that put your trade. Its now no longer a technical trade but a gamble and the house generally has the odds in its favor.
So lets look at applying the Bill James baseball theory to the Forex market. First its all about small gains (getting on base rather then the long ball). We will take a maximum hit on any given trade of 2.5-5% on any given trade at the preferred conservative leverage. If we take a 50 or100 pip loss. Since the average ADR is 100 the chances of a loss of 100 being taken over our 50 pip emergency stop are minimized.
So with our loss amount set to an acceptable level we have more room to handle variations in a ranging market and in a trending market as well. If we buy in the lower 2/3rds we have 100 pips to work with before we take a large loss and 50% of the ADR to work with for only a 2.5% loss. The leverage allows for greater range regardless of where you buy in the current days ADR.
Now the base hit theory. The point of trading and investing is to make life easier and to be able to do the things you want to do when the time comes. There was an ad that used to run a while back that asked "whats your number" So ask your self that. Whats your number whats the amount you need to make a year to do the things you want. Lets say that number is $250k a year
There are 52 weeks in the year so you need to make $4800 a week. So lets break that down into trading terms. Lets say you have 10k in an account. Using our leverage you can leverage a maximum of $10 a pip at that leverage you would need 480 pips a week 80 a day. That's alot of pips and unlikely because the more you trade the greater the chance you will lose money and there is that ADR which is 100 pips a day so you need to get 80% of a currencies range before being stopped out.
Lets say you have a 100k in your account now you can leverage $100 per pip and now only need 48 pips a week which is only 12 pips a day. A much more attainable figure. So lets say you start making 4800 a week and you bank half of that into your account in 1 year that 100k becomes 224k.
Now you can trade $224 per pip and need only 21 pips a week 4 pips a day to make your 250k a year. In other words you are trading maybe 1 or 2 days a week that's it.
To be successful in the FX markets you need to be in a position where you trade on your terms where you wait for the trades to come to you. If you are patient you can get there and it doesn't take as long as you think. In fact using the compound method ( which we do ) getting just 100 pips a week you can turn $1000 into 100k in a year. This requires some work but think about it 100 pips a week is just 17 pips a day.
The compound method has its problems. If you lose it sets you back and you have to back off your leverage when you drop to the previous level, but even if it took 2 years to get to that 100k is that really that long?
It is also not a martingale approach the trade amount is the same till the next level is reached and leverage is dictated by the level you are at. If you are losing money you back off the amount you are trading.
How many years have you been trading surfing forums etc. We don't go for the home run we will take it but we don't seek it. If you get a chance watch the movie Money Ball. The Redsox and A's dropped going for the long ball they went after runs and eventually won. That's what we do when we go for smaller gains.
The other thing we do is we trade up to 4 different pairs at a time and today is a great example why. Take a look at the charts we attached.
GBP/USD moved 100 pips
EUR/USD moved 100 pips
EUR/AUD moved 100 pips
AUD/USD is in a tight 59 pip range( see where that 30 pip stop gets hit all the time)
We take our leverage and divide by 4 because at any given time we may have 4 trades on.
For sake of arguments lets say we took trades using the recommendation we just listed. $.50 cents maximum divide by 4 about $.10 cents per pips per pair.
Based on our signal last night the results would be*****
EUR/USD $10 dollars
GBP/USD $10 dollars
EUR/AUD $16 dollars
AUD/USD $2 dollars
Total $38.00 on $1000.00 3%
Less then what we would have gained if we leveraged it all on 1 pair We could have had $50 or more on any of the 4. Unless we picked AUD/USD in which case we only had $10.00.
By dividing our leverage we are less likely to get hung in a trade and it gives us the flexibility to cut trades that aren't producing. We increase our chances or getting pips each day. Yes or losing them but the loss is the same as if we put all our money on 1 horse.
*****It should be noted that we did not get the pips listed above for the reason behind it please see the post in the other Baby pips thread located here:
Thank you for this excellent and very interesting post you've made and for all the time that it took you to write it down. You answered all my questions plus much more! hehe.I think you should post it to zulutrade forum as well for all your future potential followers. As i wrote earlier i will follow you closely and if your perfromance will be as solid as your strategy description i will put you in my portfolio right away. Good luck in zulutrade!