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  #421 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2008, 05:57 PM
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Good Morning!

Well, I've been messin around with charts trying to get the directional movement indicator and CSI on excel. Not goin so well.

I've been reading. And did my first SI trade. Excel really helped me to learn the system BUT its just way to time consuming to trade from. I'm going off of the ASI chart on delta now.

I was wondering Dale. Are you still experimenting with the CSI? You haven't mentioned it for awhile.

First SI trade results,

GBP/CAD Short +42 pips

Cheers,
Randon
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  #422 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2008, 07:01 PM
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Hi,

I don't use the CSI at all i.e. I only use the ADX/ADXR values. ADX/ADXR will give you instruments / pairs with good directional movement whereas the CSI will give you instruments / pairs with good directional movement AND high volatility. I don't use the CSI because I don't believe that it gives comparable results across ALL instruments / pairs i.e. you're not comparing 'apples with apples' or 'like for like' (I've covered this previously in detail).
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  #423 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2008, 07:11 PM
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Ok,

SO...I just sent my application for Deltastock. I put Dale Brenton Paterson Introducting Broker under the"where did you hear of Deltastock" section of the application. Just waiting for them to get back with me and then I'll fund my account and get going.

Last edited by randont; 05-21-2008 at 07:35 PM.
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  #424 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2008, 05:50 AM
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Hey,

'Good on you' Randon and thanks!!! You won't be sorry I assure you (and trading these systems will become a WHOLE LOT easier)!!!

As soon as your account shows up on my IB list and it's funded I'll send you the indicators (updated).

Also: if it's OK with you then please be sure to install Yahoo Messenger and 'invite me' to 'be your friend' (or whatever it is the hell they call it)!!! It's necessary for me to be able to go through all the indicators with you and it makes it a whole lot easier to support you and the trading platform.

(My Yahoo Messenger ID is 'fintransdbp' BUT I would suggest you send me an email telling me what time suits you to connect because to be honest YM has become 'distracting' to say the least)!!!

Last edited by dpaterso; 05-22-2008 at 05:52 AM.
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  #425 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 07:02 AM
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Good (Sunday) morning everyone!!!

As some of you may know I posted on Friday with regard to the CSI problem that I thought I had solved but after close inspection it turns out that I was talking utter nonsense so I deleted the post!!!

However: I NOW think that I have INDEED solved 'half the problem' with the CSI as it relates to (most) forex pairs.

At the moment I am ignoring all the other variables in the CSI equation i.e. I'm only using the ADXR(14) and ATR(14) values simply to find the forex pairs that have good strong directional movement as well as high volatility (for reasons mentioned in 'the book'). I'm calling this my 'CSIADXADXR(14)' (as opposed to 'CSI' purely to distinguish between my 'watered down version' of the CSI and the 'proper' version). In other words: the 'CSIADXADXR(14)' is giving you the forex pairs that have good strong directional movement as well as high volatility but not necessarily the forex pairs to be traded that are the 'best bang for buck' as it were.

I've also come to the conclusion that you CANNOT mix forex pairs, commodities, and equities together by using this method for the simple reason that with forex pairs the margin requirements, spreads, commissions payable, and $ per pip movement are all very similar to each other BUT with commodities and equities this is NOT so i.e. the leverage is totally different (much lower), the margin requirements and commisisons payable are a lot higher, and the $ per pip movement is totally different not only between forex pairs but between the different commodities and equities themselves.

In short: I have arrived at the conclusion that it's OK to eliminate the margin requirements, spreads, commissions payable, and $ per pip movement when rating forex pairs against each other thus the 'CSIADXADXR(14)' formula BUT if you're going to rate forex pairs against commodities and equities as well then you HAVE to use the FULL CSI equation.

I have attached an updated (based on Fridays close) 'Daily ADX ADXR CSIADXADXR' work sheet for you to look at. The instruments that are 'greyed out' are the instruments for which there is still some further investigation necessary before I'm happy with their overall rating i.e. I think that the ENTIRE CSI equation has to be applied to them before an accurate overall rating against the 'normal' forex pairs can be arrived at (but I'll get to that tomorrow).

Take a look.

If I'm right (which I'm almost 100% sure that I am) then it simplifies things somewhat i.e. all the trend following systems are to be used with instruments / pairs with the HIGHEST CSIADXADXR(14) values and the systems to be used with range bound instruments / pairs are to be used with the instruments / pairs with the LOWEST ADX(14) and / or ADXR(14) values.

I'm also happy that the JPY crosses are now being correctly rated against the other pairs. The method was simple i.e. ATR(14) is giving you the Average True Range IN POINTS / PIPS so all you have to do is agree the ATR(14) between the different pairs to get an accurate reading and this is done by multiplying the ATR(14) by a 'multiplier' e.g. for the JPY crosses (where prices are quoted with two decimal places) the 'multiplier' is 100 whereas with all of the other forex pairs (where the prices are quoted with four decimal places) the 'multiplier' is 10 000. This is then used for the CSIADXADXR(14) or the CSI calculation.

(By the way: for those of you who saw this message earlier I've just edited it i.e. you DO NOT divide the resultant ATR(14) by 100 after multiplying by the 'multiplier' of 10 000 i.e. if you do it 'disallows' you from comparing other intruments like the stock index futures).
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Daily ADX ADXR CSIADXR.pdf (12.4 KB, 13 views)

Last edited by dpaterso; 05-26-2008 at 09:41 AM.
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  #426 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 04:51 PM
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Default Backtesting Volatility System

Dear Traders,

I am pleased to start my career in Babypips in this thread. My journey to the Forexland is still in its beginning, I have been studying the Babypips school and forums and practiced with demo accounts, trying to find my trading personality and appropriate systems that would match it and prefereably also be profitable. I have read the thread "PSAR - that's all" through, and found it both entertaining and extremely educating. Thanks, Dale and the others, for both it and this thread.

I have some practical limits for trading caused by my daily job, which I am not intending to quit right now, so I want to check my trades once a day at a fixed point of time. This seems to leave only the volatility system for me of the Wilder's systems discussed here, so here is my small contribution about it to your great work. Sorry, I have not bought "the book" - yet, though I know it is sort of an entrance criterion here. Explanations for the volatility system were available in the internet, and it was not too difficult to understand.

I have read through this thread trying to find some backtesting data about the performace of VS in the long run, and tried to google that as well, but haven't succeeded. So I thought to do some coding in MT4 to see the results myself. But I did not end in going that path because of the algorithm to count the daily values is somewhat recursive, and having done some experimenting with EAs, I was quite afraid about the speed of the calculations - it might take ages to calculate the results for just one set of input parameters. So I decided to do it in a traditional way by coding in C++, which was also an easier coding task. There is a nice feature in MT4 to export data in a csv file, which I have so far done only for EUR/USD, 1999-2008. My program then eats this data and calculates the results. MT4 exports several timeframes in separate files, which makes it easy to compare them. Here are my initial results:

1) During this period of time, i.e. almost 10 years, there were a bit above 50 trades, making about 5 trades per year.

2) I parameterised the ATR factor and the number of ATR days used. For this pair it seemed that 3.1 and 8 yielded about the best results. Just following the rules, it calculated a total of about 5300 pips. The biggest drawdowns for single trades were around 350 pips. 12 of the trades went over 1000 pips, but only two of them stayed there up to the bitter end. My conclusion would be that at least for this pair it would be quite beneficial to use a stop at 1000 pips, once it is achieved.

3) There has been some discussion about how this system would perform on lower timeframes. I did some checking on H4, but the results are not worth mentioning here. I think that once I get some other pairs checked as well, I'll check H4, too, but just for curiosity and completeness. By the way, I had to use ATR factor above 4 there to get at least some kind of positive results.

If you folks are interested to hear more, I'll post results from other pairs as well once I have them. I just hope that my coding went correctly, at least my cross-checkings did not reveal anything alarming.

J.
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  #427 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2008, 07:21 PM
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Good (very early here) Monday morning!!!

kaalilaatikko:

Welcome and thank you for the interesting post and the trouble you went to to backtest the VS. Makes for interesting reading. One thing that does trouble me somewhat, however, is the (your) mention of a stop loss. The VS does not USE a stop loss at all so I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say.

One word of caution to everyone else: I am indeed aware of some 'free summaries' of Wilder's work on the Internet and I myself have had a good look at all of them. The details of the actual systems are 'sketchy' at best and really only give a very broad outline of the methodology or logic used. In addition to this I think I've made my (personal) stance on this issue very clear i.e. the cost of the book is a mere 'pittance' in relation to the potential profits (even fortunes) to be made and I can tell you that I've probably learned more from Wilder's 'non system specific' comments than I have from the actual systems themselves.
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  #428 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2008, 01:37 AM
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Good Evening!

Welcome to the thread, kaalilaatikko! I would also encourage you to buy the book. Makes life so much easier. You mentioned "I want to check my trades once a day at a fixed point of time" Well don't rule out the SI and the RT systems. It wouldn't take too much to keep these up after a hard days work. Hope to hear more from you in the coming months.

Is it just me or were the markets kinda dead the last week? I didn't see much movement in the pairs I was following at all. I missed some nice SI trades earlier this week, grrr. Didn't see much later on in the week(SI Trades). Most of my RT trade B/S weren't hit, not much movement on sooo many pairs(unlike the previous week).

Still waiting on Delta to approve my documents. And THEN, I'll be able to mail them. Can't wait!

Trades:

GBP/CAD Short +42 pips (SI)
AUD/CHF +38 pips +7.70 (RT)
Short GBP/BGN pending (SI)
Long CHF/BGN pending (RT)

Cheers,
Randon
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  #429 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2008, 02:21 AM
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Hello Randon,

I agree with you about the markets being 'kinda dead' last week (and about everything else you said of course). Because I'm still 'nurturing' my AUD/NZD position I've be apprehensive about taking on more 'long term' trades so the end result is that I've been sitting on a single position that aside from it's massive move last week has done absolutely nothing (as a matter of fact the bars on the hourly chart for this pair resemble more of a 'bar code' than a 'bar chart' i.e. THAT is how 'tight' it's been trading)!!! Very bad trade and very bad call on my part. My current 'hope' is the the Elliot Wave theorists and fibo traders are 'on the mark' because it's SUPPOSED to retract to it's 38.2% fibo line before moving higher in which case I should 'clean up' VERY nicely BOTH WAYS!!! I, like you, also missed some 'stellar' SIS trades (strangely enough NZD/USD being one of them)!!!

Anyways: I've started trading using the CSI (my 'CSIADXADXR(14)') today (on one of my other smaller accounts) so let's see what happens. One thing that I am just a 'tad' worried about is the fact that it appears to be possible to get a very high CSIADXADXR(14) rating with a very low ADX(14) / ADXR(14) rating because NOW the CSI is being 'pushed up' by the ATR(14) and is not relyant SOLELY on the ADXR(14) value anymore. I THINK this has something to do with the statement on page 111 (that starts with 'The paradox is that volatility . . .').

And just so that we DON'T all miss this one: looks like there is a 'stellar' trade coming on EUR/SEK i.e. a long SIS trade i.e. high on the CSIADXADXR(14) scale but signal not generated as yet (maybe tonight) and short term trend (LRC 14,100) is up.

And by the way: don't let Delta 'mess you around' i.e. they're normally OUSTANDINGLY good with their admin and customer support but now and then they (like everyone else I suppose) need a 'gentle friendly reminder' to 'move things along'. (Like I have said to some people who have 'doubted' Delta's 'authenticity': if they ARE a 'bucket shop' then they SURE go to a lot of trouble AND EXPENSE to prove otherwise)!!! What I'm saying is that I know it's a pain to have to send original documents and stuff like that and wait for the account to be opened but they are governed by some very strict rules and regulations as set out by the EU so the 'hassle' of going through all the 'red tape' in my opinion is well worth the 'piece of mind'.

Edit:

Also just 'by the way': for those of you who are able to trade the US stock index futures (Dow, Nasdaq, and S&P) (and have the margin of course) they are all pretty well near a 'retro' VS trade i.e. they have all NEARLY retraced to the same point where you WOULD HAVE / SHOULD HAVE 'got in' when the very first initial VS entry signal was given. In other words: had you entered at the CORRECT time you would STILL BE in the VS trade and 'looking to go short' now and the VS SAR to go short is MILES away so this MAY be a very good way to get into the 'Dow to 14 000 and beyond' trade!!!

Another edit:

Hoooo Boy!!! If you thought the markets were quiet LAST week (and the week before) then don't even bother getting out of bed today!!! It's public holidays in the USA AND in the UK!!!

Last edited by dpaterso; 05-26-2008 at 07:28 AM.
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  #430 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2008, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpaterso View Post
Good (very early here) Monday morning!!!

kaalilaatikko:

Welcome and thank you for the interesting post and the trouble you went to to backtest the VS. Makes for interesting reading. One thing that does trouble me somewhat, however, is the (your) mention of a stop loss. The VS does not USE a stop loss at all so I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say.
Hi Dale, if I am reading this correctly and you are referring to -

Quote:
My conclusion would be that at least for this pair it would be quite beneficial to use a stop at 1000 pips, once it is achieved.
I think kaalilaatikko means a profit target rather than a stop loss.

Cheers
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