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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 09:38 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Default Does the "system" matter - money management is key

Is it all about money management??

I'm sure it is.

I've been around Forex for a little over a year now. I've had a little bit of success live trading, but still make my day-to-day living in a full-time job. Mostly, I trade (live) a single system that I've tweaked over time, but I'm a small-timer in the forex market for sure.

While I continue to trade my live system, I've demo'ed several (countless, probably) systems that I've seen here, on other forums, experimented with on my own, etc. Most recently, I stumbled upon a system that I started playing with (in a demo account, of course) that I assembled from a combination of other systems I had demo'ed in the past. It started doing really well. Here we are just halfway through the second week of June, and it's up 31.5% for the month as of today.

Lucky? Yeah, probably. Two-and-a-half months of success doesn't even come close to proving a system is successful for the long-term. But the thing is, I don't necessarily believe this particular "system" has much to do with the success I've seen with it. I'm certain it is all about the money management strategy I've been using along with it.

Every trade is the same. The profit target is 5 pips, and there is NO stop loss. Yes, there is NO stop loss, which goes against my inherent desire to protect my account. And, I'm not in any way suggesting that trading without a stop loss is a good strategy - most people will tell you it is a sure-fire way to blow up an account, but it has been working, and I plan to keep demo'ing until I get a reason to believe it won't work.

I'm not going to go in to detail on the specifics of the system I've been using to pick the trades themselves (again, I'm really starting to believe flipping a coin to decide whether or not to enter and in which direction would be equally as effective in getting you in to the market), but I am interested in comments on the overall strategy of managing an account. I've set up a demo account for this, and only this, strategy. I am a believer in not trying to test too many different methods in a single account. Demo accounts are free - use one account for each strategy, and treat it as the sum of all your trades, not one trade at a time. The next posts will outline my thoughts.
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Old 06-11-2008, 09:42 AM
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Posts: 65
Default The basis for my testing

For the past two months (plus the start of June), I have $500 in my demo account on "Day 1". Why so little, if this is a demo account and it doesn't matter? Mostly because if I were going to go live with this strategy, this would be the most I, personally, feel I'm in a position to lose if I blow up the account. Remember, this theory involves trading without a stop loss in place - if I blow up the account, it can't be a sum that would have a major impact on my life if I were to lose it. Your "how much can I afford to lose" amount may be higher or lower, but the concept of how to apply this strategy shouldn't change. If you have more to risk, you potentially have more to gain - simple risk/reward. Once I'm at the stage that I'm serious about testing a system as a whole and not one trade at a time, I open a demo exclusively for it, and treat that demo exactly like it were real money. I don't care how this system/strategy will do in a $50,000 account if I only have $500 to risk when I do go live.

So, now I have a system/strategy that after a a couple of months of taking every possible trade I can according to the "rules", I feel might have some potential for long-term gains. I open my demo account - in this case, with $500, what I'm feeling I can afford to invest in it (and to lose if it doesn't play out).

For the purpose of this experiment, IBFX is my broker for this account, and at $500, this is a "micro" account with IBFX - each pip is worth $1 USD.

(side note - for those of you familiar with IBFX, before you tell me it isn't possible to open a demo with only $500, I am aware of that. For the sake of keeping this brief, I open the account, and then make some losing trades to get the balance to $500-ish to start. It is important, to me at least, that this amount be what it would really be in a live account).

I've got my $500 demo account, and my "system", so I'm ready to get started...
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 09:46 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Default Getting started...

First, I need a goal. Fully realizing I may not achieve it, but needing one nonetheless, my goal is to double my $500 this month. With 21 trading days in June, and a calculator to help me figure this part out, that means I need to, on average, increase the value of my account by 3.4% every single trading day this month. Some days I will achieve this and more, other days I won't. But, I now have a place to start. And, by approaching it in this manner, it now doesn't matter how much money I have to start my account with, if I want to double it this month, it means shooting for a gain of 3.4% on the day's opening balance every single day.

So, on day 1, I need to pick up $17 against my $500 balance to achieve this.

At roughly $1/pip (some pairs are a little higher, others a little lower), I need 17 pips today. I know that I am shooting for a 5-pip target on every trade, and I know from my first stage of demo'ing this system, that I will probably have, on average, 4 trades every day. So, if they all win, I get 20 pips (around $20), and that puts me ahead of my goal. Will they all win? No. Will there be days there are more that 4 winners at 5-pips each? Yes. I need a "base", and this is how I arrive at it.

Here is how the month of June breaks down, in terms of my "target balance" at the end of each trading day:


6/2/2008 517.00
6/3/2008 534.58
6/4/2008 552.75
6/5/2008 571.55
6/6/2008 590.98
6/9/2008 611.07
6/10/2008 631.85
6/11/2008 653.33
6/12/2008 675.55
6/13/2008 698.51
6/16/2008 722.26
6/17/2008 746.82
6/18/2008 772.21
6/19/2008 798.47
6/20/2008 825.62
6/23/2008 853.69
6/24/2008 882.71
6/25/2008 912.72
6/26/2008 943.76
6/27/2008 975.84
6/30/2008 1009.02
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 09:50 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Default Doing the math...

So, I've established a goal to achieve a 3.4% increase on my account each day (double it this month).

I know that on "Day 1", at about $1/pip, a 20-pip gain (roughly $20) would be a 4% increase on a $500 account. This gives me a little "wiggle room", so the rest of my math will work with 4% as my magic number (it will also make the math a lot easier )

But what about day 2, or day 10? Hopefully, I've hit or come very close to my goal each day and my balance is rising. Now, a 20-pip gain at $1/pip works out to less than 4% of my account balance. I need to either (a) start winning more pips per day to keep up, or (b) my pips need to be worth more. I'd prefer to stick to my system and not have to figure out how to make more pips in a day, so I'll choose (b) - make my pips worth more. But, how much more?

Well - let's go back to day 1. 20-pips at about $1/pip is $20, or about 4% of $500. 10-pips would be about $10 (2%), 1-pip ($1), therefore, works out to 0.2% of my account balance ($500). So, every day, if I plan to earn 20 pips, each pip needs to be worth 0.2% of whatever the balance of my account is in order to stay on pace with my goal. The easiest way to figure that out is, divide my balance by 500. Whatever that is, is the value of my pip (which, on the micro account I'm using at IBFX, just so happens to correspond to the "lot size" or "volume" for any trade I open). So, a little magic in my excel spreadsheet: Have a cell do a simple calculation that divides my current account balance by 500, and whatever is in that cell is 0.2% of my account balance - what I enter for the "volume" when I place a trade in MT4.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 09:55 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Default The daily routine

OK - the math is out of the way. I have a goal for each day, and a simple way to figure out how much each pip has to be worth to achieve that goal. Now I have to start making trades. In my first post, I mentioned that I'm not going to go in to detail about the system I'm using, because I don't think it matters. In the days that follow, I'll be posting my entries as I make them - to some, it will become obvious how I arrive at the entries (the "system" really is quite simple), but I do *NOT* want this thread to focus on that. Just about any trade that has a target of 5-pips, placed in the direction of a trend, at a "logical" entry point has a very good chance of earning just 5-pips. There, I just gave you the system.

So - let's get to the meat of this experiment. Here's what I do each trading day:

1) The trading day, for me, starts with the open of a new candle on the IBFX platform, which occurs at 8:00pm Eastern US time (I live on the East Coast). I look at seven pairs to see if there will be a potential trade on the day that just started: EUR/USD, USD/JPY, EUR/CHF, GBP/USD, EUR/JPY, USD/CHF, USD/CAD. Most days, this will result in placing 5 or 6 "stop" orders. My "system" almost always rules out one or two pairs for any given day. I spend about 15-20 minutes per day on this step.

2) My stop orders are placed at the price points my system determines, with a 5-pip take profit target and NO stop loss. Once my orders are placed, I turn off my computer, go and play with my kids for a while, and forget about trading until the next day.

3) The next morning, when I arrive for work (usually between 7am and 8am Eastern US time), I check on the orders I placed the night before. In most cases, several will have opened and closed (TP) overnight. Some may not have opened yet. On, what has thus far proven to be rare occasions (and mostly why this strategy seems to be working), there may be one that has opened and not hit TP, and is likely now showing a loss. These are the occasions that will cause some draw-down, and the trades that ultimately need to be watched closely. So, there are several things that may happen here:

3a) If enough trades have opened/closed to put me ahead of my goal, I will close any that are pending. Don't be greedy - make my goal, and be done for the day.

3b) If there are no open trades, and the goal has not yet been reached, I will leave the others that are pending to see if they go in later in the day.

3c) If there are any trades that are open, they need to be watched closely. On the rare occasions that this has happened in the past three months (six times altogether so far), these trades have eventually come around and either hit their target, or I've closed them at a small loss not having a major impact on the account. It has taken as long as 5-days in one instance. The key is, these trades are all placed in the direction of a long-term trend, thus increasing the odds that they will eventually turn around and come back.

(I should stop here to make a point - this is entirely the reason for starting with an account size that I can afford to lose. Trading involves RISK. So far, this strategy has not blown up an account yet - though it has only been two full months - and as you will see, part of the strategy is to regularly take profits from the account. But, the possibility is there, and I have to be willing to accept the possibility of a loss in an effort to achieve a gain).

(A second note - I have tried attaching a Stop Loss of 25 pips to these trades, which has not worked out well at all. It is not uncommon for some of these trades to dip low and come back overnight and still be closed at TP at my first morning check-in).

4) The next time I check in (if 3a wasn't done above) is around 4:30pm, before I get ready to leave work for the day. Here, I record anything that entered/closed since last check in. On those rare occasions that there is something open (and losing), I will let it carry over to the next day, unless I am able to close it for a small (this part is subjective) loss. Assuming there are still any pending orders, they will be closed at this time. Open orders carry over to the next day - pending orders don't.

At 8:00pm, I start all over with the next day.

Last edited by cgrey; 06-13-2008 at 08:35 AM.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 10:02 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Default Lather, rinse, repeat - until...

On the last day of the month, I've hopefully made my goal. Based on several factors, I probably haven't. Mostly because I will have probably had to absorb a few losses during the month. The only part of this money management strategy that is subjective, is when to close losses without impacting the bottom line too much. While it hasn't happened to me yet (it's only been 2-months), I think I'd probably say I'd go ahead and close any losing trades on the last day of the month if there are any still open. There may be one (or even two) that cause a $100 or more hit. In two months so far, I have had to manually close three trades, for a total loss of $140 (against $1000 in wins) - none of which lingered on until the end of the month. That said, I still have to watch for drawdowns - at one point, I did have three trades open for a total loss of over $400 before they came back around. If you are over-leveraged, this could mean a margin call. One way around this - double your account balance, but treat it as if you hadn't. For example, put $1000 in your account, but do all your math as if it were a $500 account. Even in the extreme I just described, I'd have been nowhere near a margin call with this strategy.

Assuming that the account has gained (even it is hasn't doubled), I'd take half of the gains, withdraw it as a small reward, and set my next month's starting balance at what's left. An example - the account balance is $800 after all the trades for the month are done. That's a $300 profit. Withdraw $150 (half of the profit) and buy myself something, leave $650 in as the starting balance for next month (and now, my goal for the next month is to end with a balance of $1300).

The nice thing about this is, after a few months, I've been able to withdraw $500 (my initial investment). So now, even if I blow up the account because of a trade that goes terribly wrong, I've lost nothing.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 10:04 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Default So - the results so far, and forward-testing

I will now post a series of posts to show the success of this strategy so far this month. Once I'm caught up to today, I will post the orders I am entering in "real time" so we can forward-test the results of this money-management plan.

:::::::::
Monday, 2-June

EUR/USD: No Trade
USD/JPY: No Trade
EUR/CHF: No Trade
GBP/USD: No Trade
EUR/JPY: No Trade
USD/CHF: No Trade
USD/CAD: No Trade

Today's +/- : $0.00
Today's ROI: 0.00%

Account Summary:
Starting Balance: $500
Current Balance: $500
Goal: $517.00
+/- vs. Goal: -$17.00
Winners: 0
Losers: 0
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Old 06-11-2008, 10:05 AM
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Posts: 65
Default

Tuesday, 3-June

EUR/USD: + $5.00
USD/JPY: + $4.79
EUR/CHF: + $4.86
GBP/USD: Still Open
EUR/JPY: + $4.80
USD/CHF: + $4.81
USD/CAD: + $4.98

Today's +/- : + $29.24
Today's ROI: 5.85%

Account Summary:
Starting Balance: $500
Current Balance: $529.24
Goal: $534.58
+/- vs. Goal: -$5.34
Winners: 6
Losers: 0
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Old 06-11-2008, 10:05 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Default

Wednesday, 4-June

EUR/USD: No Trade
USD/JPY: Still Open
EUR/CHF: + $5.10
GBP/USD: + $5.00 (From 3-June)
EUR/JPY: No Trade
USD/CHF: + $5.08
USD/CAD: + $5.23

Today's +/- : + $20.41
Today's ROI: 3.86%

Account Summary:
Starting Balance: $500
Current Balance: $549.65
Goal: $552.75
+/- vs. Goal: -$3.10
Winners: 10
Losers: 0
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Old 06-11-2008, 10:06 AM
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Posts: 65
Default

Thursday, 5-June

EUR/USD: + $5.50
USD/JPY: + $4.95 / + $5.27 (From 4-June)
EUR/CHF: No Trade
GBP/USD: + $5.00 (From 3-June)
EUR/JPY: No Trade
USD/CHF: + $5.27
USD/CAD: + $5.40

Today's +/- : + $31.89
Today's ROI: 5.80%

Account Summary:
Starting Balance: $500
Current Balance: $581.54
Goal: $571.55
+/- vs. Goal: +$9.99
Winners: 16
Losers: 0
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