Technical Templates 2

[johnnykanoo]

What are you going to do on the 4 hour or Daily chart timeframe?
You got a specific strategy or game play worked out that returns a potentially greater value to risk ratio via those timeframes than the lower timeframe options?

hey andre i can tell you why i prefer the 4h and daily tf's

first it is that i feel price patterns, trendlines, all manner of analysis for that matter is more stable and truer on higher timeframes. this doesnt mean i wouldn't drill down to find the best entry on the 5m tf.

also it is an availabilty issue for me. i am not always able to "daytrade"

also i feel i can risk very little to gain very much just by sensible use of these s/r zones. especially on longer tf's

[o990l6mh]

Originally Posted by johnnykanoo

hey macgyver
i was saying you probably don't want to hear this because genrally speaking alot of traders want to take the easy road whic coincidentally is also the "fast road to riches" and they don't want to hear that its going to take time and effort. im glad there is alot of interest in this methodology which coupled with sound money management can slowly lead to success. it might not happen over night but it will happen as long as you apply yourself and try to tune into the ebb and flow of the market via the s/r zones.

I understand. I do suspect however that the get rich quick crowd doesn't spend many minutes on this thread before moving on.

I've written a few times on this forum that: you can either get poor quick or you can get rich slowly.
Not surprisingly the vast majority seems to be intent on ending up poor.

[Andre Mayer]

Originally Posted by Blaiserboy

I think Andre has sent a signal that we had better be prepared before we post our thinking on a chart....

No no, I was just throwing those questions/comments out there to get a little feedback about where edacsac was going with his thought process is all – not meant to be a deep & meaningful chin scratcher!

Let me give you an example of where I’m coming from with my last comments:

We’ve been looking at the pound/yen this week yeah?
I threw up a chart last Sunday on here: My Basic Chart Analysis Method and a couple more follow ups on here as it developed, with one or two level/zone markers that piqued my interest & would tempt me if they reacted.

Those zones were marked off via a 4 hour chart reference study.
So, given I highlighted the zones & considered them worthy of careful inspection next time price knocked their door, what do you suppose I’d be looking for if & when they touched base?

Lets take just one of those levels in isolation & drill down into the specifics to open it out a little.

Hopefully it will offer up more detail about why we wait for particular opportunities & the kind of basic stuff we continually monitor to reinforce the decision making process.

Price arrived at the 151.50 level at 4.00am London on Wednesday & spent over 11 hours arguing with it before plunging 475 pips in less than 2 hours down to a pre-mapped level that was responsible for shipping price North quite smartly only 2 months previously.

So, this was the 1st test of that potential demand zone this time around.

475 pips in a heartbeat, to a typical reaction level we highlight on here constantly.
Price had travelled over 500 pips already that day & arrived at 146.75 as London was closing up shop for the day.

Average range for the 10 & 20 day prints are striking in at the 290 pips level.

What do you suppose the odds are that a bounce was likely at that previously identified s&r level?

If the level/zone is a potentially hot potato & it begins to display behavior traits that typically develop into a playable high odds/low risk trigger, then does it really matter which timeframe you key in off?

I’m not suggesting this is right & what you guys plan to do is wrong or inferior – I’m just putting it out there to see what bubbles to the surface!

Ok, I got a conf call to get stuck into. Enjoy your weekends!


Small timeframe option:



Larger (4 hour) timeframe option.

[edacsac]

Nice example. Less risk and much greater reward entering on the smaller time frame. At first the nice IB on the greater timeframe looks safer, but the smaller timeframe gets you in sooner with less of stop loss... if I see it correctly.

[johnnykanoo]

what i see is you have entry points at support where it became resistance. this is what I look for and sometimes refer to price pivot zones. these areas always act the same and can be very reliable in your analysis. when price moves through these levels you can safely tuck your stop behind the last "entry point" and trail your stop all the way across.

To tell you the truth andre I don't feel that I am good enough and "nimble" enough to risk my hard earned capitol on lower timeframes and I definatly would be more comfortable on at least H1. The way that I trade and the things I lok for in the markets are far more reliable on higher timeframes. Although I would definatly agree that price is price no matter what.

[Andre Mayer]

Originally Posted by edacsac

Nice example. Less risk and much greater reward entering on the smaller time frame. At first the nice IB on the greater timeframe looks safer, but the smaller timeframe gets you in sooner with less of stop loss... if I see it correctly.

Originally Posted by johnnykanoo

what i see is you have entry points at support where it became resistance.
these areas always act the same and can be very reliable in your analysis.

I don't feel that I am good enough and "nimble" enough to risk my hard earned capitol on lower timeframes
I definatly would be more comfortable on at least H1.
Although I would definatly agree that price is price no matter what.

Thing is, there are at least a couple options in play though aren't there!

Nice to see choices, choices are cool

It might not be the option you’d choose, & that’s fine. But the thing is, this type of game play (stepping in & out off key levels) throws up choices for each type of timeframe participant, providing the market is playing ball.

And the more familiar you become with it, the more options it seems to offer.

Certain styles (smaller timeframe execution as opposed to larger timeframe execution & vice versa) will usually slot in more easily with particular market rhythms, but as long as you’re aware of your immediate surroundings, the current market pulse & the limitations/strengths of your proposed involvement, then it’s a case of covering your ass (risk) & picking your choice of weapon (set-up/trigger).

Familiarity & confidence operating a particular style or method, that sits right with your risk attitude & expectation levels, is imperative if you’re intending stepping up through the gears.

It doesn’t need to work out every time & it won’t. But it’s got to sit comfortably inside your head, otherwise you may as well toss your cards on the table right now.

[Andre Mayer]

Last time around I wanted to be unique and devise my own system. This time I plan to apply James' IB/OB, fib retracement basics and 1-2-3 patterns, along with SR lines and stick with those until I see some consistency.

And the most important word that stands out in that passage is: plan
Get yourself a framework & you've always got something to pivot around & focus on. They'll definitely be occasions where you're going to have to swap & change things around, but the foundations of planning are a major step in the right direction

I know you guys aren't big on fibs, but I think they are relevant due to that whole self fulfilling thing.

Doesn't matter one jot whether we're big on Fibs or not, or anything else come to that. Important thing is, that whatever you choose to incorporate inside your template adds value to you & improves your working relationship with the market.

Forget what I or anyone else likes or doesn't like!

Try to make the best of my availability. Try to plan trades instead of trying to force something out of nothing.

That little gem of a word again!

I had the sit down at 8 or 9 pm and it's time to trade mentality.
Gotta put on a trade, only got a couple of hours.
Everything I learned was lost when I'd sit down to trade because I put myself under pressure to do something.

Yeah, that just doesn't work does it.
You can't force opportunity.
Opportunity comes knocking when it's ready, not at your convenience!

Your job is to be fully & adequately prepared when it strolls into view on your radar.

[edacsac]

Originally Posted by o990l6mh

Well, you've chosen an excellent thread to return to trading with!

May I be so bold as to suggest a look at this thread also: My Basic Chart Analysis Method

Phil ought to be a teacher, because he has talent for it. Reading through his thread and his ebook might be worth the time.

I completely agree with you btw on your TF thoughts. After trying everything from even scalping 1min rainbows (OMG did i really fall for that!) and what not, I've ended up on 4H and dailys and feel like I found home.
There simply was no other sensible way to trade for me as a full time day jobber.

Excellent write up! Very concise. I just F12'd the 4H during the month of September of '08 with some quick SR lines in place and your pdf open. While I only made one paper trade, the choice was clear using the risk calculation you provided and I felt good about it. I pondered another, but the risk was to great with the action around the SR lines I placed. It still went off to profit, but the risk/reward didn't jive up front. Great stuff.

If I wasn't so tired I would've drilled down a bit and probably found another oppourtunity or so based on the 4H action, so your example Andre, makes immediate sense.

I think taking a break from this for awhile was the best thing I could've done. Then to come back and find great new threads, it's like things are finally coming together. I can't wait to dig back in! Hopefully I can manage the emotional part and stick to the plan. Fibs are probably unessecary.

Thanks!

[johnnykanoo]

Fibs are probably unessecary.

i personaly use fibs. i dont use them to get into a trade i use them as confirmation along with other things. if more than one thing lines up then i say i have "confluence" the more confluence I have the better the trade looks for me.

my methodology is really a hodge podge of teaching from whom I consider to be excellent price action traders who were willing to share there views so that people like us can have half a chance. people like andre which btw andre thanks for taking the time and posting and answering our questions. I really appreciate it.

I start out looking for simple price patterns...

pin bars
inside bars
outside bars
2 bars with the same low but higher highs
2 bars with the same high but lower lows

then when i see any of these I look at where they formed because that is critical. if they formed in the middle of "no mans land" then i don't trade them

so if they are at an acceptable level i look for extra confirmation
i look for;

support and resistance
price flips (price pivot zones)
fib levels from previous swing highs or lows
round numbers
365 ema
200 ema

all these things are simple things to look for once i see a price setup I like i look for the extra confluence which helps me set profit targets and stops then i trade

final note is that i look for a+ setups. I used to bumrush the market and trade any half-a$$ed setup i saw but now instead of wildly punting at everything i take my time and just like a marine force recon sniper i sit and i wait and wait and wait and when the perfect setup comes my way i take my shot.

one shot one kill

sorry for the long post i just wanted to share a little of what has been really working for me lately.

[Ray_1]

Originally Posted by johnnykanoo

i personaly use fibs. i dont use them to get into a trade i use them as confirmation along with other things. if more than one thing lines up then i say i have "confluence" the more confluence I have the better the trade looks for me.

my methodology is really a hodge podge of teaching from whom I consider to be excellent price action traders who were willing to share there views so that people like us can have half a chance. people like andre which btw andre thanks for taking the time and posting and answering our questions. I really appreciate it.

I start out looking for simple price patterns...

pin bars
inside bars
outside bars
2 bars with the same low but higher highs
2 bars with the same high but lower lows

then when i see any of these I look at where they formed because that is critical. if they formed in the middle of "no mans land" then i don't trade them

so if they are at an acceptable level i look for extra confirmation
i look for;

support and resistance
price flips (price pivot zones)
fib levels from previous swing highs or lows
round numbers
365 ema
200 ema

all these things are simple things to look for once i see a price setup I like i look for the extra confluence which helps me set profit targets and stops then i trade

final note is that i look for a+ setups. I used to bumrush the market and trade any half-a$$ed setup i saw but now instead of wildly punting at everything i take my time and just like a marine force recon sniper i sit and i wait and wait and wait and when the perfect setup comes my way i take my shot.

Hi johnny,

From what you wrote here it seems that you are approaching trading in the similar style to James16 and gang in forex factory. Good to see that you are doing well in your trading. but i believe if you continue your venture in trading you will find that you will only need price actions and SR levels, plus round numbers and 50 levels. For me I took A+ setups but I also take B or C trades but these trades normally return poor R:R. In addition you have to take note of minor SR levels when approaching B or C trades. Just my thoughts.