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  #2041 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2008, 10:45 AM
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Default Did'nt get nice results

Hi, everyone. I've demo traded this system;'parabolic SAR'. I did'nt get nice results. I've had equal numbers of bad and good trades!

David
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  #2042 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2008, 11:13 AM
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Default Gbp/usd = 171 pips and Eur/Aud 115 pips

If you followed my system today you would have made a possible 286 pips

Gbp/usd = 171 pips
Eur/Aud = 115 pips

Hope u all had a good week.
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  #2043 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2008, 06:16 PM
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Thanks for clearing that up Dale, and yes I did hit the target anyway . I did plug in the numbers from the example in book and I got the right numbers so I know my spreadsheet is correct. The only thing that was a bit confusing to me was which TBP, target and stop to use, the ones of the day you enter (at the close) or the next day. I now know that you use what it gives you for the TBP, target, and stop on the NEXT day i.e. when your trade is actually going to see action. So for example I entered at the close of 1/30, I use the numbers for 1/31 for the TBP, target and close. This is correct, right? Also, I have been reading about the volatility system, and the only thing that I don't fully understand is how to calculate the SIC point, is it just the extreme high or low of the last 7 days? Does that mean that it can change during a trade?

Last edited by chirules54; 02-01-2008 at 10:49 PM.
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  #2044 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2008, 07:16 AM
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Hello,

Like I said: I'm real happy for you (I was monitoring your trade yesterday and was getting quite excited for you)!!!

You appear to have the TBP System 'under wraps' i.e. the TBP, TP, and SL are always for the next day and you enter at the open (which for forex will always be at midnight at your broker i.e. at the close of the previous days bar).

As far as the Volatility System is concerned you appear to have it 'right' too but to be sure: you use the highest / lowest CLOSE not the EXTREME highs or lows and you need to start with at least seven days worth of data so that you can have enough data to calculate ATR(7). Thereafter it's the highest / lowest close for ALL the previous days until you get an entry or are already in a trade and need to stop and reverse as indicated by the system. From that point on you are looking to go in the opposite direction and you would then start calculating the SAR using the highest / lowest close FROM THAT DAY ONWARD but you still need all the previous data for the calculation of the ATR. Also, yes, the SAR WILL move up and down every day i.e. it compensates for volatility i.e. the more volatility the further away it will move. I have not had an entry signal with this system yet but from what I can see the one thing that can totally kill this system is overtrading your account i.e. it is supposed to keep you in the trade 'for the long haul' so that means you have to be able to 'ride the price wave' as far up and as far down as the system needs you to do WITHOUT being margin called i.e. it may be a long time before you reach the SAR point but when you do you're (hopefully) sitting on a HUGE profit!!!

Oh, and one other thing, DO NOT try and 'second guess the close'!!! I was 'training' somebody the other day to use the Volatility System. They wanted to open a position on GBP/USD. I told them to WAIT FOR THE CLOSE ABOVE THE SAR BEFORE TAKING THE TRADE and they said to me: 'but I can see that by tonight the price WILL close above the SAR so I'm going to go long NOW' to which I replied: 'OK, well, I'm telling you to wait for the close BUT it's your money'. Do I need to tell you what happened??? The price DID in fact go WAY past the SAR but by midnight that night it had retracted all the way down again and the price has continued to move down since then!!! Needless to say they are now down about 300 pips and counting!!! DON'T SECOND GUESS THE CLOSE I.E. THE PRICE MUST CLOSE ABOVE OR BELOW THE SAR BEFORE TAKING THE TRADE!!!

What do you think of 'THE man's brilliance' up until now??? Wait until you get to the Reaction Trend System and (my personal favourite and 'money machine' from tomorrow, the Swing Index System). They're a 'thing of great beauty' I can tell you!!!

Last edited by dpaterso; 02-02-2008 at 07:19 AM.
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  #2045 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2008, 07:59 AM
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Just the work that went into the systems is astounding, especially since he didn't have excel to work with... hahaha. I just hope these systems work well with forex pairs too, as all of the examples in the book are commodities I believe. I think somewhere in the intro of the book he stated that the systems can work with any tradeable instrument, but obviously the markets have changed a little since the 1970s. So for the volatility system, let me get this straight... get previous 7 days of data to calculate ATR (7) and the first SIP is the extreme close (high close for possible shorts and low close for possible longs) which CAN change until you get an entry to get in. Once you get in, the SIP becomes the most extreme close from THAT POINT on, until your position reverses and it changes again, and the SIP once again is the most extreme close from the reversal on. I think I got it!
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  #2046 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2008, 08:48 AM
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Hello,

Yup: you've got it.

It's real nice to watch the SAR 'track' the price down or up every day and it's starts getting exciting once the SAR is close to the price (noting of course my 'don't second guess to close' comment above)!!!

Like I said before: can you imagine having to 'plot' charts every night with graph paper, a calculator, and a pencil!!!

There is one thing that I do, in fact, wonder about though and that is the fact that all the systems are based on or demonstrated using the daily timeframe. Is that because when the book was written they did not have information 'on tap minute by minute' like we do now or what? The reason I think about it is because I've had a look at the shorter timeframes with all the systems and there is no reason for them not to work (with the exception of the Volatility System i.e. it's not designed to handle market 'noise') on the shorter timeframes (well, up to the one hour, not shorter in my opinion). If I look at his other system or concept i.e. 'The Delta Phenomenon' there we are talking days, weeks, months, and years i.e. also never a mention of anything shorter. Maybe, he, like me, believes that the only way to make REAL money is on the daily timeframe or longer. Not sure. Like I said: the other systems COULD work but the rewards are not too great i.e. small pip movement so smaller profits. Then of course there is the 'all important DAILY CLOSE' that everyone looks at!!!
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  #2047 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2008, 08:56 AM
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By the way,

when I was using Excel I used the following to remind me of what I'm doing:

Entry:

Looking to go short:

Highest close less previous days ARC. Go short when the close is less than the SAR.

Looking to go long:

Lowest close plus previous days ARC. Go long when the close is greater than the SAR.

Exit:

From long to short when close is below the SAR.

From short to long when close is above the SAR.

Don't know if that helps to simplify things.
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  #2048 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2008, 02:07 PM
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Talking chop chop!!

what is the most choppiest currency pairs?? As I've foundout.. the total overall percentage of non trend is higher than ones which trends.. but everyone seems to concentrate on trending price... I though i would develop a strategy based on non trending...

So which ones that you trend fans avoid??
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  #2049 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2008, 10:02 PM
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Dale, I was reading about the directional movement system and I found out some good information, I'm sure you have already seen it but I just wanted to know what you thought about it. First, Wilder says that when the ADX is below 20 or 25 to not use a trend-following system (like the volatility system?) He then goes on to say that the only systems in the book that CAN work with a low ADX are the TBP system and the reaction trend system. Do you use ADX at all to filter results with the volatility system? It seems you can use the TBP all the time but maybe only use the volatility system with trending markets or a favorable ADX? I would also be curious to see how the CSI (commodity selection index) can factor in to this, maybe help you find a forex pair or other tradeable instrument that is best suited for use with the volatility system...
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  #2050 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2008, 03:28 AM
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Good morning,

Once again: I'm really glad that someone else is seeing the 'wisdom' that I saw in the book.

Before I go on I once again want to state that whatever I 'share' is my own personal 'take' on things and does not necessarily mean that, although the systems are purely technical in nature, that there is not a CERTAIN (albeit) small amount of personal interpretation possible and my interpretation MAY not always be correct. Having said that I do feel confident in saying that I feel that I know all of the systems 'inside out' from a technical perspective for the simple reason that I have studied that book 'inside and out' for the last couple of months. Of course: being so 'besotted' with something such as I am with this book means that there is always the possibility of me not being able to 'see the wood for the 'trees' i.e. when you have read and reread something that many times it's easy to 'overlook' something small or keep interpreting something incorrecty all the time.

ADX:

At first, when I started 'studying' ADX, I did not see it's merits, expecially when used in conjunction with Parabolic SAR i.e. if you were to wait for ADX to be above 20 - 25 before starting to use Parabolic SAR you were pretty much always 'getting in late' and also missing some very 'grand trades' if you 'stuck religiously' to the rules of ADX. This, I'm afraid, is what I think the vast majority of people notice. What they miss though is the relationship between ALL the ADX lines i.e. +DI, -DI, ADX, and ADXR and where these lines are in relation to each other AND THAT IS THE REASON THAT BUYING THE BOOK AND REALLY UNDERSTANDING ADX is what makes all the difference to the indicator.

I can honestly tell you that I do not take much cognisance of the actual VALUE of ADX or ADXR anymore (or should I rather say that their actual values, although noted, do not get taken into account as a deciding factor for a possible trade). I DO however note WHERE these lines are in relation to +DI and -DI and I also note whether these lines are moving up, moving down, about to change direction, etc. etc. etc. and this is where the 'true value' of ADX lies I think. For example: if a trend is about to stall, change direction, or continue, then take a very good hard look at what the ADX line does during these periods. It's ALWAYS 'on the money'.

Regarding the TBP System and the Reaction Trend System:

My 'take' is this: I would agree that the TBP System would work in a ranging market BUT having said that there is no reason to NOT use it in a trending market as well from what I can see i.e. if the market IS trending then only take TBP System signals to enet in the direction of the trend (and here I would 'note' ADX as described above POSSIBLY noting the value of ADX at the time). The Reaction Trend System was designed to initiate a trade in a ranging market but if the instrument started to trend then you'd immediately be put in 'trend mode' and follow the trend until the instrument started to range again. What I'm really saying here is this: my interpretation of his words is that they are 'better suited' to non-trending market but that does not necessarily mean that they CANNOT be used in a trending market.

The Volatility System and a range bound market:

Again: because of it's design I cannot see any reason why it would not work in a range bound market. Yes, the longer the instrument in stuck in a range, the longer you'd be holding on to that position but remember that the Volatility System will 'adjust' itself in relation to the volatility so even if an instrument is stuck in very tight range all it means is that the Volatility System will just remain 'static' until a breakout of the range occurs and it will then start tracking the 'trending price'. Of course you would not make (take) profit in a range bound market with the Volatility System because you would not get a stop and reverse signal BUT let's say that you had been using the Volatility System for a while, the market had been trending, you were now in a profit situtation, and the market then started to range (consolidate???). With the Volatility System all that would happen is that you would just be 'sitting on your profit' for a while and if the trend then continued in the same direction as before then of course your profit would increase but if the break out of the range was in the opposite direction then, of course, you'd realise your profit when you stopped and reversed.

The Commodity Selection Index:

This, strangely enough, I have not even 'messed' with up until now but I think that today I will sit down, calculate it or try and write an indicator for it and see the results. I'm sure it has merit (as does everything else in the book) but I have just not 'gotten into it' for some or the other reason. Actually, as I type this message to you, I've just had a 'flash of inspiration'!!! Would the CSI not be a solution for our 'weighting of the pairs against each other' problem??? I mean: what it's telling you is this: even although one instrument may have a better 'payoff' when it's 'moving', if it's NOT 'moving' BUT an instrument with a lower 'payoff' IS in fact 'moving' then obviously it's better to be trading the instrument with the lower 'payoff' that is 'moving'!!! Now THAT could be something to 'study'!!! The ACTUAL values of ADX / ADXR are important here. Take a look and I'll do the same. Like I said: for some or the other reason I just never 'got into' that chapter but now that I think about it maybe it carries MUCH weight!!!

Later.

Last edited by dpaterso; 02-03-2008 at 03:30 AM.
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