Quitting my 9-to-5 and jumping into Forex (full time)

Community Introduce Yourself
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Hi all - to introduce myself, my name is Daniel. I go by shaforex on these threads (because why not, right? nobody uses their real names). I started my babypips account probably around 8 years ago and after a couple years of dipping in and out (never with real money) I found out that due to independence rules at my job at a Big-4 Accounting Firm I’m not allowed to have a leveraged account, so that put the damper on ever getting into forex.

[I]Fast forward to current day:[/I] I am a Director at the Firm and looking to leave/go my own way. I have enough set aside to trade full time without a salary for 6-8 month (of course with every month that goes by there will be less for me to use in my trading account). Scary notion, but I want to do it as a full time job and I feel like if I can devote full time to it, I can make it work.

I am still employed until July and plan to continue paper trading until then. I will then open a small account and trade real money I can afford to lose until I’m consistently profitable. Hopefully I succeed in doing that before 2017 is over, at which point I’ll trade with larger sums. The following bullets summarize my views/plans for now:

[ul]
[li]I treat this as a business. I am going to be an entrepreneur. My trading account is my customer and I need to provide value to my customer. It’s not a game.
[/li][li]I plan on being excruciatingly risk averse (stops at 1%-2% of my account per trade).
[/li][li]I am keenly aware of the need to be consistent with a strategy, and a simple one at that.
[/li][li]I am heavily focused on the psychology aspect of dealing with your emotions as you trade. Easier said than done, but I am aware of it and plan to focus on improving it as I start trading with real money.
[/li][li]I haven’t figured out what style, timeframes and pairs I will trade, but it will be technical analysis-driven.
[/li][li]I am in the US so limited by the brokers here. I opened a demo (and plan on it for my live trading) account with OANDA. I looked into ECN brokers, but prefer a reputable, regulated broker seeing as how my business depends on it. Damn you, US government, and your overburdening regulations!
[/li][li]I am still on the lookout for a professional, reputable, knowledgeable mentor. I’ve seen several names out there and each one seems to have his/her own baggage and hard to get an honest assessment. Plus I need to figure out my trading style first.
[/li][li]I don’t want to make the rookie mistakes if I can help it. That means scalping as a newbie (or even daytrading on 1-4 hour charts). On the other hand, as a full-time trader, I want to have sufficient trade setups so long-term trading is not for me either. I suspect it will end up being a combination of swing trading and short-term trading, perhaps focusing on 4-5 pairs and swing trading on those (e.g. have 4-5 open trades at any given point, roughly one per day) and spend the rest of the time (that I’m not finding my setup/timing my entry) backtesting strategies and practicing some more.
[/li][li]I know that it usually takes several years to become consistently profitable. I hope I’m not shooting myself in the foot here, but I would like to think that taking this seriously, as a full time endeavor - being acutely aware of rookie mistakes, money management, psychology and the like - I will achieve success quicker than the average joe. This is not a gamble. This is my future business. I’d like to think the statistics we see everywhere do not apply if the appropriate level of intentionality is applied.
[/li][/ul]

I am very eager to hear from anyone and everyone who can contribute constructively about how I can make this leap from full time accountant to full time trader a successful one. In my first days with babypips (2009 onwards) I was guided by some very generous and knowledgeable forum members. I want to thank them for doing so, as it brought me back here all these years later. I want to thank all the rest of you who will help me along the way in advance.

Peace and prosperity to all!

1 Like
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As a director of one of the “big 4”, why on earth would you consider leaving for FX. The reality is that it’s highly unlikely you will be profitable by end of 2017 - this is more of a proven fact than an opinion.

I wish you the best of luck, but maybe you need to consider your options?

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I wish the best of luck to you. Just remember like most people on this forum, You shouldn’t have to pay for any strategy, there is too much free information out there to have to pay to gain knowledge. Out of all the years I’ve been trading real/paper I have never thought of seeking out a mentor because mentors aren’t free. Something’s a mentor can teach you quicker but everything a mentor has to offer can be found on this forum, in a book or someone’s QNA session. Food for thought.

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Hi Daniel,

Why is that I feel like saying “Welcome to the forum” in spite of the fact that you joined it 4 years before me?! :o

You say some things that makes good sense, above, of course … and it seems clear to me that your chances ought to be “well above average”.

Please excuse [U]very[/U] highly selective comments-in-response, concentrating only on the few sentiments you’ve expressed that “ring potential alarm-bells” for me … :8:

I hope that’s long enough for you. (It wouldn’t have been, for me, when I started - not by a long way, actually - but we don’t really know “how much you understand already” and “how much useful experience you have”, so one can only guess?).

Well, I’m not trying to sound disparaging, but my instinctive response is something like “As long as you know that that’s really asking a hell of a lot …” :33:

[/li]

That’s [B][U]not[/U][/B] “excruciatingly risk-averse”, for a professional trader. It’s just [B][U]not[/U][/B] - sorry. You’ve really alarmed me, with that comment, because it suggests to me that you have some [I]deeply[/I] erroneous beliefs around “what’s normal”. I risk 0.3% to 0.9% of my account per trade, depending on my proven expectancy. Ok, I’m conservative and risk-averse and I admit it, but to be talking in terms of up to 2% as “[I]excruciatingly risk-averse[/I]” is totally inappropriate, and I’m being [U]really[/U] polite about it.

You’re trying to make a “professional-level living”, here, aren’t you? The people with whom you might compare yourself are typically risking perhaps about a quarter of what you’re envisaging, per trade - and it alarms me that you seem not to know that, at all. Maybe a [I]little[/I] more on their rarer, [B][U]very[/U][/B]-high-expectancy systems (but how many people really trade those?!). Have you read books on position-sizing, Daniel? (Maybe long ago, and have forgotten them?).

[/li]

I think you’ve understated this. :wink:

More specifically, I urge you not to trade with real money (i.e. to stick to demo or a tiny account) until you’ve collated the results of a minimum of 300 trades [B]using the exact same system and exact same trade management parameters[/B] you’re going to use with your “big account”, without showing a net loss, without having any substantial drawdown, and so on.

(I’d actually advise you to do that at twice, if I thought you’d take me seriously.)

[/li]

Be careful in forums … please excuse the warning, but do make sure, if choosing a “mentor”, that it’s one who is (a) where you want to be, and (b) whose primary income-source is from [B][U]trading[/U][/B] rather than from mentoring. Personally, I’d strongly suggest you accept no “mentoring” from anyone without first independently verifying the benefits of that person’s mentoring from previous mentees [I][U]to whom you speak yourself[/U][/I], and [B][U]don’t[/U][/B] rely on prepared “testimonials” of any kind.

(I mention it partly because in this forum there’s rather a long history of people promoting commercial “mentoring services”, and some/most/all of them, frankly, are doing so only because it’s a much easier income-source for them than trading would be, given their own knowledge-level: all too often, they “talk a good game” - though sometimes not even that! - but actually know very little of any real value and have no teaching skills at all.)

In fact, if you feel you need a mentor, then in my opinion you’re [B]definitely[/B] nowhere near ready to be giving up a secure salaried job. Sorry.

I wish you well … and I’d certainly hope you do, because the average Joe [I][U]never[/U][/I] actually achieves it at all. I’m “just saying” …

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If I hadn’t provided a subtle reply already then I’d have mirrored the above. All points are valid and [perhaps unfortunately for you] very true.

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Thanks for the responses, and specifically Lexys for your detailed responses. I value them all very much and humbled you’d provide such time to comment on an introductory post.

Regarding career change:
I am looking to leave the corporate job for personal reasons. Too long hours, too much travel, too many personal sacrifices. Great pay, don’t get me wrong, but I want to go down an entrepreneurial route with an eventual plan to be self-sufficient with a modest income for me and the family but to be able to be at home with my family and not rely on an employer for my income. (yes, yes… I hear you scream “but relying on the market for it???”)

Regarding alarm bells:
[B]6-8 months is not long[/B]. I get it. I am scared about it and concerned about it. Every (reasonable) voice I hear says that it takes a long time, but on the other hand every reasonable voice also says that 95% of new traders make the same newbie mistakes, think they know it all, don’t practice good money management, etc. What I don’t know is this: if I humbly accept the lessons learned from those who made mistakes before me, by how much is this learning curve shortened? Does it still take 2-3 years to become profitable/consistent? Also, most traders don’t dive head-first but dabble in it until they become confident enough. If I spend 6 months 40-60 hours per week (1,000-1,500 hours), does that equate to those who dabble a couple hours/day (2 hours * 365 days * 2 years = 1,460 hours)? I’m not saying there’s magic to the 1,500 hour mark, but am I deluding myself that if I focus intensely on it for 6 months full time, is it still asking too much to anticipate I’d show consistency by then? (Honestly, guys, please let me know. This is important to me).

[B]Risk averse positioning[/B]. I may have oversold my level of knowledge at this point… No I haven’t read any books on money management yet, I’m still going through the babypips school. The only thing I know so far is hearing people out there saying NEVER EVER risk more than 1-2% on one trade. I heard here and there people talk about 3-5% range as well. I assumed that it’s a common thing to risk stupid amounts exceeding that and that 1-2% are the risk averse croud. I’ll be the first to admit when I’m wrong. As I learn I will realize the technical gaps that I have in my knowledge. The overarching concept still stands: I am very risk averse and plan to practice solid money management principles, whatever the numbers end up being. —And please, be as blunt as you feel is necessary to get a point across. I’d rather be ‘screamed at’ than broke.

[B]Knowing my system[/B] whatever that system may be - you are 100% right. I plan on spending a good amount of time backtesting with a very rigid structure and once I’ve convinced myself that the system works, I will forward test on demo, then trade it live with small real account, and only then the big account. I am very methodological and, being an auditor I use spreadsheets almost too much - I plan to analyze the heck out of any system.

[B]Mentoring[/B] - yes, you are right and that is what I’ve been seeing too. That’s why I haven’t found one yet. A name comes up (don’t want to call anyone out) and then you get tons of extremely opposing posts from either end. I just don’t know what to trust (or whom). I am an autodidact but I also know the value of learning from others and if it means shortening my learning curve, I’d like to be open to that. I know you CAN learn anything online for free, but how long will it take you and how many things do you not know that you don’t know? To find stuff out you need to know what you’re looking for. Whereas a mentor can identify things in your actions that you’re unaware of. I’m 36 and looking for a career change. I don’t have the luxury of time.

Anyway, thank you again so much for your consideration and taking the time to help me through it. I haven’t ruled out getting a part-time job to cover living expenses and with my background and expertise, thankfully I have a net to fall into. But I also don’t want to rule out the possibility that 6-8 months of dedicated full-time study would be sufficient. Eager to hear your thoughts.

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I don’t know by how much it will be shortened [I]for you[/I] (and neither does anyone else).

It took me a lot longer than that. You might be quicker (and you’re older, and more mature, and doubtless more experienced, and all of those might be good things?), but I really did have [I]a lot[/I] of relative advantages that most people don’t have. (I won’t say too much more about that, because it’s ultimately unhelpful to you, I think: we started the process in very different positions, anyway.)

My [I]guess[/I] is that for most people “more concentrated” is perhaps a little better, overall, if anything. (For me, that was 20-30 hours per week, not 40-60, but it took me a [I][U]lot[/U][/I] more than a year.)

I don’t know; but [I]the fact that we don’t know[/I] is surely quite alarming when you’re talking about giving up such a secure, well-paid position to do this?

Ok … that’s certainly well worth doing, anyway.

For [B]after[/B] that, I offer three further links in the hope that they might help …

This was how I learned.

These were my most reliable and helpful information-sources.

And these are the five classic mistakes which all successful traders [I]must[/I] eventually learn to avoid, in my opinion.

Ok, fair enough … high on the list of things for you to learn to appreciate, in my opinion, is that in a field of endeavour with very low success-rates (and believe me, learning enough quickly to be able safely to replace a professional income through trading has [B][U]very[/U][/B] low success-rates!), listening to “consensus views” isn’t a good approach. Especially when you don’t [I]really[/I] know “of what/whom it represents a consensus”. :wink:

Lol, I hear you … ok, well - thanks for not taking me the wrong way, anyway.

That all sounds good.

Now you’re talking. I was intending to ask you about exactly that prospect. That might well make a [I]significant[/I] difference, in effectively taking away some of the time-pressure? Anything that can take away the time-pressure [U]must[/U] be a good thing, in my view.

Let nobody tell you that anything’s impossible, in principle, but I know of nobody else who’s ever achieve what you’re hoping to over anything like that time-scale. I feel guilty, almost, for being honest about that, now … :8:

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I’ll certainly check out your additional links. Appreciate it.

I hear what you’re saying. I have much more to learn and much introspection, that is for sure.

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Hi, Daniel and welcome to the forum. Like Jezzode mentioned, be prepared to put some time and effort before you become successful and profitable. Your plan is really good and if you are patient, persistent and stick to it then I can’t seen any reason of why you should not be able to become a successful full-time trader.
My advice is to start with the major pairs, especially with EURUSD as it has high volume and low costs. Personally I don’t think that you should rely on expensive courses and mentors as most of the time it’s not worth it. There are many free videos, forums and even books which could guide you through your learning experience. Especially in this forum, like you mentioned, there are many competent and helpful people which you can rely on. Good luck! :slight_smile:

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Hi Daniel,

I was just reading these above posts and was wondering how it all went? Did you become consistently profitable? Would love to hear your experiences.

Jasper