I have a long way to go... - Page 2
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  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    126
    Arcelt, that has been always my reminder whenever I find myself taking time
    to ponder on 'how much shall i invest?'. Even if the expected interest/win
    is so tempting, I have to remind myself because I have been there before,
    and have lost much in some investments that didn't work for some reasons.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    164

    Default Starting A Business

    Shiny, are you a Weatie or Lincoln? First you need money, 4-6 years of living money if you want to start full time. Sufficient funds to trade, you are not going to make 200 k a year on an account of 25 k. There are those who will tell you that you can make 200 k a year on 25 k, when they do, ask them to show you their audited account. This is just to start, you still need to lean about yourself and how YOU relate to the markets, which takes more time than anything else. You have to look at trading just like any other business, you need sufficient funds to support yourself during the first few years while the business grows. It has been said that 98% of the new traders who start trading fail, but don't ever forget that 95% of small businesses fail in the first 5 years also, the common denominator for both failures is, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$, or lack thereof. The Always Interested VIPER
    Last edited by TradeViper; 07-02-2011 at 04:05 PM.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,945
    I was tempted to stick my 10c into this thread but since no other experienced BP member has, neither will I. Its interesting to see your posts folks. Some interesting assumptions...

  4. #14
    SDC is offline Superior Master Contributor and Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    955
    Quote Originally Posted by TradeViper View Post
    Shiny, are you a Weatie or Lincoln? First you need money, 4-6 years of living money if you want to start full time. Sufficient funds to trade, you are not going to make 200 k a year on an account of 25 k. There are those who will tell you that you can make 200 k a year on 25 k, when they do, ask them to show you their audited account. This is just to start, you still need to lean about yourself and how YOU relate to the markets, which takes more time than anything else. You have to look at trading just like any other business, you need sufficient funds to support yourself during the first few years while the business grows. It has been said that 98% of the new traders who start trading fail, but don't ever forget that 95% of small businesses fail in the first 5 years also, the common denominator for both failures is, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$, or lack thereof. The Always Interested VIPER
    That sounds good but doesnt really stand up to scrutiny, you are attepting to equate the investment required for starting a small business with that needed to begin trading forex, of course you need $$$$ to start a small business there are a lot of expenses in the initial stages of a business that will usually surpass your profits for the first few years untill you build up a big enough client base to begin turning a profit.
    None of that applies to trading forex, there are no such initial expenses to consider.
    The only difference a large initial deposit is going to make is that it will absorb larger losses before you blow the account.
    In other words, if you have not developed a good trading strategy and tested it thoroughly before you start trading live it doesnt matter how much you invest as your initial deposit, you will probably lose it.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    164
    Quote Originally Posted by SDC View Post
    That sounds good but doesnt really stand up to scrutiny, you are attepting to equate the investment required for starting a small business with that needed to begin trading forex, of course you need $$$$ to start a small business there are a lot of expenses in the initial stages of a business that will usually surpass your profits for the first few years untill you build up a big enough client base to begin turning a profit.
    None of that applies to trading forex, there are no such initial expenses to consider.
    The only difference a large initial deposit is going to make is that it will absorb larger losses before you blow the account.
    In other words, if you have not developed a good trading strategy and tested it thoroughly before you start trading live it doesnt matter how much you invest as your initial deposit, you will probably lose it.
    Actually, it does. If you do not treat trading as a business from the outset, you will eventually fail. Wayyyy to many put faith in back tests, wizbang this that and whatnot, and forget the basics. What happens when the "system" stops working, what do you do while you are tweaking or adjusting, even quants need to give regular attention to their models because of ever changing market conditions. Also if a person has never traded "size" live they do not know how they will react to losses and gains. So first you have to see how you react to just plain trading, then you have to see how you react to size. The feeling between moving 100k live is wayyyy different than moving 10 Mio Live. Now there may be a savant that jumps right in without needing to get used to seeing the losses/gains, but it is rare. If you pile the pressure of having to pay rent, food, etc on top of this, you "in the general sense" are doomed. Of course the startup costs as far as location and equipment etc are generally less than many small business's, but the learning curve is generally much, much greater. At least most small businesses are started by someone who knows the business they are involved in, new traders rarely know the "business", their own minds and personalities enough to be a success from the start. The question is very simple, how does one pay the bills if one has no, or a negative cash flow?

    Obviously one needs a "system" with positive expectancy, which includes money management, but if one is not prepared for the worst how will one survive? If you want to talk about longer time frame swing/position trading, that is a different subject, this type of trading can be done "part time", and if done properly, can provide not only extra income but also gives the new trader time to learn.

    My reference was in relation to getting started full time from the beginning, I know the OP asked about not right away, sometime down the road etc, but again, even if you have a solid system/plan, you need a safety net, going on your own without it is, IMO foolish and bad financial/business planning.

    And yes, this is a great site to get started, also there are people who do make money in trading spot currency, but it takes time and commitment to learning the "craft".

    The Ever Cold Hard Facts VIPER
    Last edited by TradeViper; 07-04-2011 at 04:09 AM.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    6
    Forex is not difficult if you give him some time to science and as many of the observations. After the time is getting boring, because when you see some patterns in the market, you fall into monotony. Then just increase the rate gives some excitement, and this is the stage when you begin to ponder about giving up full-time job.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South America
    Posts
    1,471
    Quote Originally Posted by shinypenny View Post
    I know I have a long way to go, but is it possible to trade for a living? Could I actually eventually quit my job and become a FT trader? Don't get me wrong I am not talking tomorrow, but a few years down the road. I am just curious if it is at all possible.
    First we need a definition for living in terms of $$$... 20,30,50,100 thousand a year?

    How good a trader you are?? can make grow steadly an account 20,30,50,100 % a year?

    Do you have enough capital once you answer the last three questions?

    My answer is yes but as you can see is far from easy...

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,354
    Ha ha, the every week repeated question, lol. Men flew to the moon, so yes a lot is possible. Just, to fly to the moon does not mean every home retail trader can do it as well while buying fireworks, lol.

    Viper is right with that business part. Regarding losses, SDC, that's like the expenses of a business. There is no business without expenses. If somebody doesn't calculate energy for driving computers/screens as expenses, that's a flaw of calculation. I do even calculate my expenses for my vps which I use for trading. Plus then as I said the losses of your trading add up to that.

    My investment/trading/whatever experience goes back for a couple of years, lol. Would I ever advise to start that trading for a living right out of zero skills and stopping all other income sources? Definitely NO! As in every other business there is no warranty you will succeed. That there are burger flippers out there who gain billions doesn't mean you can do it as well. For every burger flipper making billions there are hundreds who will go default after a couple of months with a loss at the end. So it is with every business and also with trading. If I look at my experience, I'd say it needs at least 2-5 years of education just in trading, basic financials, mm and so on just to have a good start. And that is just for a start and no living.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,733
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael311 View Post
    It is definitely possible, if you have enough capital.
    I am afraid I dont agree with this statement.

    ur deposit should be around USD 500 to USD 1000. If it grows then you know what you are doing.

    If you dont, then no matter how big of an account you have and how small of a risk you take, you will end up giving all your money to the market.

    Make no mistake about that.

    The whole idea of leverage of 1:200 or even 1 : 500 is so that you dont need a big capital to get decent returns.

    It beats the purpose if you have to dump 10 grands into your live account. Especially 10 grands that you dont have.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,733
    for newbies who are looking for something simple to begin with, I would suggest you look at this thread.

    new in forex trading


    I was thinking of starting a thread of my own but as usual I dont want to lift any more than necessary.

    ( that was one of the reasons I got into forex ) .

    Posting all the charts and doing all the explanation in a new thread again is lifting more than I need to. Further more I post as I trade, so I wont remember half of what I wrote on the older charts.

    Trading FX can be as simple as you want it to be, or you can choose to flood your screen with all that is out there and struggle to make a buck.

    Which ever it is, as long as you are making pips, then go for it.

    As far as growing your account, its not really about % of risk. Its either your trade is profitable or not. Period. ( ofcause u dont take 50% risks.)

    Risking 1% per trade on more losses then wins would take you to the cleaners regardless.

    Keep it simple.

    Happy pipping.
    Last edited by Nikitafx; 07-06-2011 at 04:30 AM.

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"Mistakes are the usual bridge between inexperience and wisdom."
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