I want to move beyond metatrader.. help

[topchess]

Guys, seriously been looking for software that can be loaded easily with systems, whether custom or premade, and certain formulas that give sound alerts on chart as they happen. Metatrader have been able to fulfill this for me. However, I read recently about metastock.com software, and it looks awesome, do you think its worth the buy?

I am looking at metastock professional as I actually trade local stocks too. but I am not sure if its really worth it, cause some of the built in systems they indicate a success % overall. and to be honest, I love their back test feature, and real time analysis of trading system.. like how much profit / loss it made in past, to predict the earnings in the future.

Would you recommend it? .. cause If you do, I will just drop metatrader and move to MS.

[Jimmy]

I have used MetaStock before (ages ago trading options/stocks) and use metatrader now (for forex) Both are good but in terms of ea's/automation I think metatrader has a much better/bigger community.

[dpaterso]

For what it's worth:

It 'appears' to me that all the 'pros' use Tradestation (which is not cheap by any stretch of the imagination) BUT with Tradestation (I gather) you get a host of additional data e.g. the NYSE 'tick charts', the TRIN, TRINQ, etc. etc. etc. It also seems to have host of additional features as well. All of this information I have 'gathered' from John F. Carters book 'Mastering The Trade'.

Edit:

Sorry, I thought I'd better explain the word 'cheap' i.e. according to their website there is a monthly fee of $99 or so for using the platform BUT depending on HOW you trade your MINIMUM BALANCE (not initial deposit) has to be $25000 unless you are only going to trade 'now and then' i.e. not a 'daytrader' then you can get away with $5000 (if I have read all of this correctly anyway).

[dannybly]

Tradestation is now tied in with the brokerage firm Tradestation securities - if you meet trading volume requirements the platform is free - it is pretty cool to be able to system trade stocks, futures and forex from one platform. They clear their forex business through Gain Capital (Forex.com) - might be worth looking into as an alternative to Metatrader -

[dpaterso]

Thanks for that input.

I must just tell you that I can (for example) also trade forex, futures, commodities, and metals using the same platform at GCI (for example). Having said that what makes Tradestation so 'special' is the ADDITIONAL information (data feeds) that you get from, as you quite rightly stated, Tradestation Securities (additional information like the NYSE 'tick chart' as I mentioned before). If you read John F. Carters book you'll very quickly see just how 'powerful' having this type of information can be and, in trading stocks and the indices, it's real easy to see how and why 'new traders' get 'raped' by the 'pros' with just this information 'on tap' alone. Unfortuantely, like I said, it comes at a price from what I gather i.e. your MINIMUM BALANCE has to be something like $25 000 at any given time NOT your INITIAL DEPOSIT (not like ALL the other brokers where they have this 'BS' about a minimum initial deposit of let's say $5K but after the deposit you can immediately withdraw $4K. I'm (they're) talking MIMIMUM BALANCE AT ANY GIVEN TIME must be $25K. I think that if you just want to trade forex though it's a lot less but then why bother i.e. that additional 'special' information is not applicable to forex trading I don't think but I stand to be corrected)!!!

[uptick]

hey depaterso,

I've used TradeStation for years now. Their backtesting capabilities is great. Not only does it come with a lot preloaded indicators, showme studies, paint bars, etc; but using their proprietary language you can code anything you want.

I don't trade through them, but use them to generate my signals and develop strategies.

Let me know if you have any questions regrading TradeStation, I will be more than happy to help you out.

good luck!

[uptick]

Originally Posted by dpaterso

Thanks for that input.

I must just tell you that I can (for example) also trade forex, futures, commodities, and metals using the same platform at GCI (for example). Having said that what makes Tradestation so 'special' is the ADDITIONAL information (data feeds) that you get from, as you quite rightly stated, Tradestation Securities (additional information like the NYSE 'tick chart' as I mentioned before). If you read John F. Carters book you'll very quickly see just how 'powerful' having this type of information can be and, in trading stocks and the indices, it's real easy to see how and why 'new traders' get 'raped' by the 'pros' with just this information 'on tap' alone. Unfortuantely, like I said, it comes at a price from what I gather i.e. your MINIMUM BALANCE has to be something like $25 000 at any given time NOT your INITIAL DEPOSIT (not like ALL the other brokers where they have this 'BS' about a minimum initial deposit of let's say $5K but after the deposit you can immediately withdraw $4K. I'm (they're) talking MIMIMUM BALANCE AT ANY GIVEN TIME must be $25K. I think that if you just want to trade forex though it's a lot less but then why bother i.e. that additional 'special' information is not applicable to forex trading I don't think but I stand to be corrected)!!!

Regarding the $25k, are you talking about TradeStation? If so, the $25k ONLY applies if you are going to be labeled as an equity daytrader. If that's the case, then you do need to maintain at least $25k. That's just regulation.

The $25k has no bearing on platform itself. You can open a Futures or Forex account with them with a minimum of $5k. You don't need to maintain $5k, just have enough in the account to cover your monthly platform/data charges.

If you don't want to open an account with them, you don't have to. You can simply become a subscriber and still use the platform.

[dpaterso]

Hey uptick,

Thank you for the information.

That's very interesting i.e. that you don't have to trade with them but can just subscribe to use the platform. Does that mean that you would be getting the data feed from them as well?

I also didn't know about the forex minimums i.e. I only looked at the equities side of things because that's what I would trade with Tradestation but that's great news I think (and yes I would be 'classed' as an 'Equities Day Trader').

As I said earlier: all I know about Tradestation is what I've read about in John F. Carter's book 'Mastering The Trade' and I would LOVE to have access to the NYSE 'ticks' and some of the other Nasdaq and S&P data that he uses (now that you've told me that you don't have to trade with them to have access to the platform I do not know which broker he uses i.e. I just assumed that it would be Tradestation Securities). There just seems to be SOOO much additional 'stuff' with Tradestation (like the 'Sector Map' I think it's called)???

I think I'm going to 'mosey on over' to Tradestation Securities and see if I can subscribe to get access to the data that I want but then I'll trade with my current brokers as I am very happy with them (and of course I don't need HUGE deposits)!!!

[dpaterso]

Hello again.

OK, well, suffice to say you're obviously doing a WHOLE LOT BETTER than me at the moment!!! The minimum subscription fee (non-brokerage) is $249 and by the time you've added all the additional data feeds that I would want access to I'd probably be looking at about $500 per month!!! (While that may not sound like a lot I'm in South Africa as you can see so I have to multiply everything by about a factor of 8 to convert from USD to ZAR so that's about R4 000 ZAR per month). The 'sad' part about it is that the $500 per month would PROBABLY pay for itself in a day or two i.e. with THAT data you can't go wrong I don't think (especially when you can see the market puts and calls and the Nasdaq L2 orders etc. etc. etc.). It's like 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' type of thing!!! Oh well, it'll have to wait a few months for me.

(I particularly like the part where access to the platform is free is you trade with them and certain criteria are met and the one that 'jumped out' at me was that if your account balance on the last day of the month is $1 000 000 USD then you don't have to pay the monthly subscription. This is obvioulsy where 'da big boyz' trade I'm sure)!!!

All I can say is that if you look at the data that is accessible to you through Tradestation it's easy to see why the 'pros' use it!!!

Anyway, thanks again.

[uptick]

Originally Posted by dpaterso

Hello again.

OK, well, suffice to say you're obviously doing a WHOLE LOT BETTER than me at the moment!!! The minimum subscription fee (non-brokerage) is $249 and by the time you've added all the additional data feeds that I would want access to I'd probably be looking at about $500 per month!!! (While that may not sound like a lot I'm in South Africa as you can see so I have to multiply everything by about a factor of 8 to convert from USD to ZAR so that's about R4 000 ZAR per month). The 'sad' part about it is that the $500 per month would PROBABLY pay for itself in a day or two i.e. with THAT data you can't go wrong I don't think (especially when you can see the market puts and calls and the Nasdaq L2 orders etc. etc. etc.). It's like 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' type of thing!!! Oh well, it'll have to wait a few months for me.

(I particularly like the part where access to the platform is free is you trade with them and certain criteria are met and the one that 'jumped out' at me was that if your account balance on the last day of the month is $1 000 000 USD then you don't have to pay the monthly subscription. This is obvioulsy where 'da big boyz' trade I'm sure)!!!

All I can say is that if you look at the data that is accessible to you through Tradestation it's easy to see why the 'pros' use it!!!

Anyway, thanks again.

Hahaha... yeah, the million dollar deposit is retarded especially when you see the interest they pay in your equity account (fyi. no interest paid in forex or futures accounts).

Yes...the subscription is not cheap, but neither is a porsche or ferrari. In my opinion that's what you're getting when you get the TradeStation platform.

If you have the $25k to trade equities you will get the platform for $99/month. Keep in mind that you can get that platform fee waived if you do a minimum amount of equity trades per month and ever month (i don't remember off the top of my head what it is for equities).

If you open a futures or forex account the minimum is only $5k (no need to maintain $5k minimum balance). The good part about that (if my memory serves me right) is if you do 10 round turn lots (standard size for forex) they will waive the platform fee for that month. So as long as you keep trading 10+ round turns per month you never pay the platform fee. All you pay are the data fees which are charged by the exchange that are simply passed through to the client.

I also want to make clear that TradeStation is not the simplest platform to learn (in my opinion). There is a learning curve and if you decide to write your own strategy via their proprietary language you will more than likely have to hire a 3rd party specialist to help you. Their language is called EasyLanguage, and it's not that "Easy" if you know what I mean. Now if you have a programming background or have an inclination to that sort of thing then you might be alright.

On the other hand, their preloaded indicators, paint bars, strategies, etc. are pretty simple to load up, optimize, and back test. But then again i've been doing it for years.

Drop me a note if you have any questions. Best of luck!