I may be new to this forum, but so what? Unless there is an unwritten rule #5, being polite when unwarranted is not a rule of the forums.
Unfortunately, your last comment quoted here is in very bad taste and I, for one, certainly do not appreciate it. :mad:
I stand by my comment. If someone comes across as a preaching douchebag, I’m gonna call them on it. In fact, you’re heading into that territory right now… :eek:
As a newbie here, I would ask you to learn quickly, like right now, to be considerably more diplomatic with your replies so that quotes like the above do not continue in your posts.
You will then be welcome on this forum and able to get away with much.
Hint - make regular use of the smiles box provided. They provide a good substitute for comments otherwise distasteful. Also make good use of humour if possible.
How about you learn to stay on topic and stop trying to pad your post count with worthless replies. LOL OMG WTF!!! ROFL!!!
Eric,
Put your confidence where it counts ( on a live trading platform ). Show us you can do it. Get a public trading journal started in forextown and make that million. You have one year, lets get going.
You know what they say “money talks and bs walks”. Will you walk?
Now here are some damn smiley’s
You could learn a lot from tymen. Both in trading and as a human.
If I could read just one post from a noob stating how they made a million instead of I am going to be rich then argue with seasoned traders that are trying to help.
Eric, chill your boots. Have a read of Tymen’s posts and you’ll realise he has contributed loads to this forum and is very generous with his knowledge. So no need to go on the rampage eh?
Anyway, to topic. I did these sums when I first started, but they’re a bit like financial masturbation. Like most traders, my profit targets are to make as much money as possible without risking so much that blowing my account up is probable. But Escoe, you inadvertedly came up with the catchiest wrongest phrase to remember ever:
STOP LOSS IS MAKE LOSS
… it’s a bit like the person who once told me when wiring a plug that the way to remember the colours is the L of bLue is for Live. Both pieces of advice will make you blow up, albeit in slightly different ways
I’ve read a lot of these threads and participated in some of them and it always follows the same sort of pattern :), one guy says it can be done and a bunch say it cant. For a new trader 10k to 1 million probably is unrealistic, not because there’s anything inherently naive with the idea but as with all professions becoming good takes time and a lot of practice.
I’ve had the the opportunity of meeting a person who consistently over 6 years was able to pull on average 30% per month from the markets. Its all about being consistent. If your winning more than your losing (something we all aim for) and you have a decent R:R ratio it’s an attainable goal, maybe not in a year but that depends on the individual trader.
Compounding drawdowns does not affect your risk, as your risk should stay the same on any given trade. A side note on drawdowns though, if a trader is using an automated system or is blindly firing off trades because of a systems rules then they’re are likely to have large drawdowns. If you become slightly discretionary, picking A grade set ups and knowing when not to trade you can greatly limit your drawdowns but again this comes with experience.
I think you shouldn’t restrict yourself to whats possible and whats not based on some predetermined notion. Look to your own results and see what its telling you. Every ones different, with different risk tolerances and competencies. People are achieving such growth percentages, its up to us to either try and emulate them or not.
Hi kagein,
I am not saying it can’t be done. Looking at the numbers scientifically it can be. Just the compounding effect not only makes it possible but feasible.
It would take a financially secure experienced trader that understands the psychology of trading.
The problem is that most if not all noobs are not that trader… yet.
If they enter the market with that goal, they most likely will be washed out faster than they came in.
It would be better to learn from traders that have “been there done that” than try to cowboy the market from the get go.
When I see that one post from a NEW market contender that has produced those numbers live, I will withdraw my point of view.
The OP claims that he only needs 20 pips per day to turn $10k into $1 million in one year. There are many systems in this forum that claim to make 40 or more pips per day, even EAs that will automatically put the system in place for you. (Even if your system performs half as well as it’s supposed to in any given month, you still meet the required 20 pips per day.)
So why can’t a relatively experienced trader simply set up an automated trading system that has been proven to work, and adjust lot sizes accordingly as their wealth builds up?
There must be some catch, or everyone here would be a millionare by now… but I can’t figure it out. I have a friend who is a programmer, and I know enough about trading to help him create a winning automated system (or simply improve on the many that already exist.) We could easily create and finish testing it by the end of the summer, each put in a few thousand $$$, and I think the money would begin to pile up.
Sounds like many make a living off their profits so they keep making withdrawals from their account so the wealth doesn’t have a chance to buildup.
Not everyone including many experienced traders know how to program, nevermind an EA.
EA’s are tricky to program…I know I’m trying …it’s hard to cover every scenario i.e. trend, range, for what’s a good or a bad trade…it’s hard to program “discretion” into them. Check out the MT4 Automated Championships…one guy had his EA make $130K in the alloted contest time (I think a couple of months)…but he’s a mathematician and his EA mimicked a neural network…and they don’t like to share.
Maybe we should start a “1OK to 1Mil in 1YR” support club which is not about trading systems…plenty of those…, but instead about trading smart and sticking to the “plan”…to keep each other from overtrading, or seeing trades where none exists or any of the many “human” flaws that rob us.
However, good programming to you and look forward to your results
Yes, I was intending to keep my money invested and not withdraw any, except once I double my account I would take out my initial investment. Then I’m basically trading with free money because I’ve already recovered any potential losses. After that, I’d have no problem leaving my money sitting, if it meant I’d have $1 mil in 2, 3, HECK, even 5 years would be doing great.
Perhaps it is kind of rare that someone is both an avid investor and a programmer, or two know each other. My friend and I could be at a great advantage in that regard.
If we are successful, we plan on:
Selling the system/EA for a reasonable price
OR
Leasing it out as an investment firm, people provide their money, we make them their $1,000,000 in a year, and take a decent cut.
BIG “if”, but we can dream right? :D. Maybe we’ll give it free to all the Babypips members who supported us along the way
Hopefully we are all part of the alleged 5% of successful traders. Good luck in all of your endeavours as well.
[Quote] You can see, the amount of loss per trade of approx $200 at the 10K level is within our normal financial comfort zone for many?, but compared to the 100K level, the loss per trade of $2000 starts to get a little uncomfortable…then at the 500K level we’re losing $10,000 per trade :eek: …now it’s really uncomfortable because that’s way out of our comfort zone of what we’re used to playing with …and we choke so to speak, even though nothing else has changed…still the same trading strategy getting just 20-40 pips at a 2:1 reward/risk ratio. [Quote]
well with the amount you have isn’t really that much difference. only numbers. yes right now losing $10,000 would be devastating but with a $500,000 account losing $10,000 would not be that hard of a hit. because you have to remember you can make $10,000 in a trade here too. as your account grows so will your comfort zone for losses. your profit % does not change it is simply numbers that change.
if you changer your current strategy that got you to $500,000 USD because losing $10,000 is too much you might as well stop and start over at this point. because you are allowing your EMOTIONS to rule your trading rather than your already successful trading strategy… stick to the plan if its profitable.
Well that’s what I’m trying to point out… “why” it’s hard to reach that million dollar balance…because people lose their nerve when they go beyond what has normally been their status quo, and it takes some re-conditioning of their thinking to be able to go the distance.
As you say, in perspecitve, losing $10K on a $500k balance isn’t really that much, but, still it plays with your mind if you’re not used to it, and how long will it take before one becomes comfortable with it if it’s happening rather quickly…1 year?.. especially if a few losses happen in a row before the profits continue again.
Believe it or not, but even people who’ve won a lottery blow it all and are left with nothing because they didn’t know how to handle that much money once they got it.
I totally agree. going from 10k to 1m in a year could be challenging because of that factor. being used to losing $200 then 6 months or so down the road you can possibly lose $10,000 feels ouch. but again. sticking to the already profitable strategy would be the best bet. and heck if you earn $500k and your starting to let emotions control simply take out XX dollars and put it into a “trade later fund” account then until you are comfortable simply add the funds back into the account. lets say if you were comfortable with a $250k account. just my personal belief about getting used to the higher dollar amount.
First of all, just because someone has only a few posts and �newbie� under their name doesn�t mean they�re inexperienced and don�t know how to trade. It could just mean they�re new to this forum. I see a lot of posts on here from people with a lot posts who clearly really are �newbie�s� who don�t really know what they�re talking about.
On here I�m a �newbie� but I�ve been a full time stock trader for 10 years and I started forex trading full time at the beginning of 2008. The most important things involved with trading are psychology and money management. Most people are looking for that magic system and don�t pay as much attention to those two aspects. By reading so many threads here it�s clear that the majority of people on here are really �newbie�s�, regardless of the number of posts. There are exceptions like Tymen though I wish he wouldn�t judge people based on the number of posts. Tymen, I don� want you to be insulted by that because I have read a lot of your posts and I have a great deal of respect for you because of your knowledge and willingness to help others.
With that being said, my experience with money management and psychology has helped me make the transition from stocks to forex an easy one. 20 pips a day is easy, if I recall correctly, even Tymen mentioned this in another thread. Get yourself a solid system and follow the rules but first and foremost work on money management and psychology!!! And the psychology part is the hardest. You�ll never learn about it with demo accounts either. You need to be live with real money on the line or you�ll never learn about your strengths and weaknesses. And maybe you�ll find out that you�re just not cut out to be a trader. From my experience most people just don�t have it mentally.
To Max99,
I agree with you about noob status. On the contrary if you were to enter this forum as a noob but a veteran trader, you would not come with unproven theories. Your theories will already be proven or disproven and you could share the results. If you come here with unproven theories as a noob to this forum, you are most likely a noob in trading. Then the best thing you could do is listen to those that are veterans. I am new to this forum and to trading. I came here to help when I can, goof around, and mostly listen. If a veteran trader and forum member like tymen was to tell me I was walking a thin line with my trading or attitude, I would certainly take heed. I will now retire from this thread. I hope I didn’t step on to many toes.
If you are using an emotionless automated trading system that simply generates 20-50 pips a day without fail, where the only thing you are adjusting is the lot sizes based on your total account size, wouldn’t this essentially eliminate the “psychology” aspect?
I thought this was one of the biggest benefits associated with automated trading… it takes your good judgement and programs a script to execute it, to prevent you from second-guessing yourself or wimping out.
That’s my thinking too, and not only that as a benefit, but it wouldn’t miss a trade either like when it signals manually and you’re sleeping or away from the computer for any reason.
I’ve been working on a couple of EA’s and learning the language. I’ve built in a section to adjust the lots depending on the balance. However, so far all the EA’s have done for me is open my eyes to how many times a “system” can signal not only valid trades, but false ones too that one didn’t notice with the naked eye, also sometimes it’s a valid signal but the stops (t/p & s/l) need to be variable for different pairs, market sessions, or volatility etc…and that’s kind of a grey area, not black & white.
I’ve done programming before but usually for data entry and reporting. EA programming is different in that it’s not black & white. The hardest part is that the strategy tester doesn’t come with a debugging utility that lets you “step” it’s execution so you can see where logic failed. From the 2007 Automated Championship interviews, the programmers found that C++ was a good language to preprogram an EA in and then convert it to mql … unfortunately I don’t know C++
Anyways, I don’t give up easily and will keep plugging away
Coming out of retirement on this thread briefly to say thanks Sweet Pip for the download. I’m just a few pages in and already thinking this will be a nice read.
If you use print statements to print each of your variables when you are programming, you will be able to step through your program and see where your actual results differ from your expected results.
So, before you manipulate a variable, write a print statement. Then, right after you’ve done an operation on it, write a print statement. This way you have a before and after picture. Once you have debugged this section of code comment out the print statements “/* print statement*/” so that if need to check this variable again you have it written in your program.
I have tried using the Print(variable) function to output the variable’s content to the stragety tester Journal…which I thought it would do on every tick but it doesn’t sometimes…so where does the /* print statement */ output to?..I’m at work and don’t have access to play with it at the moment, but I will later.
In fact, you’re heading into that territory right now… :eek:
…it’s hard to cover every scenario i.e. trend, range, for what’s a good or a bad trade…it’s hard to program “discretion” into them. Check out the MT4 Automated Championships…one guy had his EA make $130K in the alloted contest time (I think a couple of months)…but he’s a mathematician and his EA mimicked a neural network…and they don’t like to share.