ok sir, oops 
dale. yes dear sure, i will keep asking you if i have any questions. thanks muchâŚ
I agree with what other respondents have said, so will endeavour not to overlap. However, to pick up on a couple of points: if you can say that a Forex account will give you extra money to buy luxuries, holidays etc, then you are acknowledging that money can be made trading Forex. So why can you not accept that sufficient money can be made to provide an income?
Of course the market is risky, many jobs involve some element of risk; ask anyone who is self-employed or who runs their own business (particularly in the current climate), ask anyone who goes into the armed forces, or law enforcement, ask mining engineers, oil rig workers, test pilots, racing drivers or any one of a thousand other groups I donât need to mention here. The simple existence of an element of risk is not, on its own, reason enough to suggest that a profession is invalid, or should be avoided.
I know a number of full time traders personally. I am coached regularly on a trading floor where many traders work full time trading Forex. There are many on here, and elsewhere, who make a full time living trading Forex, myself included. I have never met or corresponded with anyone from this site outside of these discussion groups and the odd pm. If, as you say, Forex trading does not work as a full time career, then all of these people must be seeking to mislead a lot of people every day. That would be a major conspiracy, and to what end? I donât sell training courses, trading tips or, indeed, anything. So most of us would have nothing to gain by pretending to trade Forex full time. Unless you also believe that the US faked the moon landings, and that Elvis is still alive, you must see that there is too much evidence for Forex working for it to be a fake industry.
And on a separate point, why would it annoy you that there are those of us who say that a (good) full-time living can be made from Forex? If you are clear in your mind that it is impossible, then save your money for something easier, or with lower risk. But please donât be annoyed with us for expressing a view that disagrees with yours.
I view Forex as a career. Any career takes time to learn, time to refine. I had a successful career job before this. Straight out of university I started training for that, and spent the next two years learning the ropes, improving my skills. I left that in 2006, then started my own (unrelated) business. Again, I took some time to learn the ropes, my skills improved, the income improved. I still run that business. Then I also started trading Forex and again, initially, I was not that skilled, as I had little knowledge and no experience. Again, over time, I improved, I learned my way around, now I make a good, and improving, living at it. Some people donât make this work for them for any one of a number of reasons, but that is true of many careers. That does not mean that the career is not viable. It is a harsh truth in life that we are not all cut out to be everything. I was a success in my previous career, my business is going well, and I am happy with my Forex progress. But I would be a terrible chef, an awful lifeguard (my six year-old swims better than I do and my four year-old is not far off) and I tried welding sheet metal a few times and almost disfigured myself on each occasion. So for all those things I go to someone who has an aptitude.
Sorry to ramble on, I donât mind at all that you find Forex a waste of time, but the terms in which you presented yourself could discourage others from trying their hand at this. As many people come to this site for help, guidance and encouragement, I thought it was important that between us we responded to what you have said.
I agree that Forex is not for everyone, but it does work for many people, so please do not present your personal opinion as irrefutable fact.
And sorry, I know that I need to learn to write shorter sentences!!
another succeesful business persom. this shows forex is a genuine business and wroth doing. hatss off to you sir as well.
Thanks for this thread because is very interesting. I know people who take forex as a profession, and I think thatâs great and exciting! And as a profession it required time, knowledge and passion. You can get a lot of money and lose a lot too⌠and thatâs the difference with other jobsâŚyou can work to lose tooâŚ
There are sites that offer signals from experts and that allows to trade without investing full time and bring the possibility of combine trading with a real job. This companies are a good option for people who only want to invest and donât want to be a professional in forex worldâŚ
Anyways, I think Forex is one of the most beautiful carrer to work in.
And sorry, I know that I need to learn to write shorter sentences!!!
Dontâ worry: as long as Iâm still around nobody is going to complain about YOUR long sentences / posts. You make some very good points by the way!!! OK: Iâm still not 100% in agreement with anybody on the FOREX âthingyâ but thatâs just me as we all know.
Regards,
Dale.
It took me 2.5 years. It was very difficult as you need to figure out what works and what doesnât. You need to find something that fits your personality. You need to work on attaining the proper trader psychology, and solving your inner demons.
If I had to do it again, I would network more with very profitable traders. You need to have access to the best information and best answers as fast as possible. That can cut your learning time drastically.
Wow, thatâs scary. Almost 3 years⌠I think i need to learn quick
Well a lot of the time was spent trying to find the holy grail and I tried so much garbage that did not work and did not fit my personality. If you can get rid of that garbage it can save you one whole year.
So without that it would of taken 1.5 years. If you network with top traders and have access to the best information and best answers in your particular situation it can go faster.
It took me 2 years to be consistently profitable and I had previous experience trading stocks and futures. There is no reason at all to trade a cash account until you are consistently profitable in a demo account. Some people make the mistake of thinking that even if they canât be consistently profitable in a demo account, maybe a cash account will be different. Yes, it will be different, worse. Not only do you have to learn how to trade Forex, you also have terrible emotional swings ruining the learning process.
Trade demo as a hobby. Itâs a very interesting hobby, to me the most interesting anywhere. It costs you nothing to learn it in demo. Keep very good records. Try to trade demo just as you would a cash account. Be honest with yourself. Only go to a micro account after three months in a row of consistent profits. The same for advancing to a mini account and the same for advancing to a standard account. If you have some past trading experience or a talent for this, plan on it taking 2 to 5 years to be consistently profitable in demo, before you even begin to deal with the wild emotional consequences of trading, and sometimes losing, real cash. If you lose a ton of cash in a live account before you learn to trade in demo, all you are doing is feeding the large accounts of more experienced traders.
If you have no knack for this, no need to lose lots of money in it to discover that. Just trade demo. Eventually, you will learn this market, or get bored with it and move on to something else. Donât lose any real money before youâve learned to trade. Donât quit your day job until you have made more trading in a year than on your day job. Donât trade a single penny of real money until you have been consistently profitable for three months in a row in demo. Donât think this will ever be easy. Good trading can be very simple, but it may never be easy.
does it mean forex provides feed to experienced traders on the cost of new beginner traders. It means those who make money is actually the money taken away from other traders. is that true??
dear i am new to trading can you tell how to start. i am reading babypips.com now and almost at the end of it.
thanks
as a new bie can you advise me how to start. i have almost finished babypips school. thanks
Thank you, Dale, both for the positive feedback and for those lengthy posts - always full of good stuff, and itâs nice to know that there are others out there who like long sentences and paragraphs!
Love your insights, especially in the paragraph I quoted above, I am at the point where im about to start my fourth of what i am considering serious months of demo, my first three have been highly profitable, and im starting to really get a feel for what is consistent for me. Provided my fourth month remains consistent, I will be going live, however lately the thought of what to do with my current full time job have been in my mind alot. Your insight of âdont quit your day job until you have made more trading in a year than on your day jobâ really struck a chord with me, just makes sense! I think i will adopt this into my âgo-liveâ strategy
Thanks
Good morning.
I must say that this has turned into a great thread i.e. some very valuable input and advice here.
You need to work on attaining the proper trader psychology, and solving your inner demons.
This to me is 99% (well maybe 95%) of âthe battleâ. Fairly decent trading systems are âa dime a dozenâ really. But being able to trade them successfully is another issue entirely. I know this from bitter (turned good) experience. My âmainâ trading system (dare I say two of my âmainâ trading systems) that I started out with didnât make any money for me back then (and of course I then started âjumping aroundâ from trading system to trading system for months, even years). Today I trade both of those same trading systems almost exclusively and successfully now (there are another two or three that Iâve added to keep me a little busier during the day if the âmoodâ takes me). Whatâs changed??? Not the trading systems themselves I assure you (theyâre âcarved in stoneâ as it were). The markets certainly have not changed (and I donât believe they ever will at least not from a retail tradersâ point of view). In my case, and for the most part, Iâve been with the same broker too for 95% of my trading career so the broker has not changed either. So the only âvariableâ is me, myself, and I. I believe the information contained in the above quote is more important and valuable than many people think no matter how cliched it may be.
Well a lot of the time was spent trying to find the holy grail and I tried so much garbage that did not work and did not fit my personality. If you can get rid of that garbage it can save you one whole year.
See paragraph above!!! LOL!!!
CrazyGril:
âŚand I had previous experience trading stocks and futures.
Any particular reason youâre arrived HERE now??? (Donât worry: I ask everybody that question that used to trade equity futures and / or commodities and has decided to trade FOREX now).
Good trading can be very simple, but it may never be easy.
Excellent point. Iâve been trying to make that point for ages but have never been able to put it across quite as succinctly (I had to spell check that) as you have!!! LOL!!!
Itâs so true. And most traders do it to themselves and I, once again, speak from bitter experience. Thereâs just way too much information out there. Some good, some bad, some useless, mostly confusing. Iâve arrived at the point where I ALMOST âtrade-by-numberâ (you know like âpaint-by-numberâ). Itâs not rocket science and I dontâ believe that all of the information that Iâve spent all this time absorbing, like some giant human sponge, has stood me in any better stead. Am I sorry for trying to learn as much about every little nuance and inner-working of the markets in the shortest possible space of time??? No. Come to think of it though (hereâs the first time Iâve ever thought about this): would I trade my previous (spectacular) losses for my knowledge gained??? Would you believe that I actually donât have the answer. I would have to say ânoâ (after a good long pause here) and I never ever thought about it until now. Thatâs interesting. There are very few people here that will be able to grasp the extent of the misery and humiliation that I allowed this business to cause before arriving at the point where Iâm now. But would I trade my knowledge??? I honestly donât think so (not now and looking back). Am I proud of myself for sticking it out at all costs??? Iâd have to say yes. Could I have arrived at this point without all of this information and knowledge (and I dontâ beleive that youâll ever stop learning in this business)??? Most definitely yes (in hindsight). Interesting.
(Sorry i.e. I went off at a bit of a tangent above but it was YET ANOTHER moment of âself discoveryâ. It still happens from time to time)!!! LOL!!!
You make some very good points CrazyGril.
forex123456:
does it mean forex provides feed to experienced traders on the cost of new beginner traders. It means those who make money is actually the money taken away from other traders. is that true??
Well (and Iâm probably going to get âshot in the back with arrowsâ because of this) with retail FOREX trading I donât really believe this to be strictly true. Put it this way: if anything, in retail FOREX trading, some traders are losing their accounts (money) and the market maker âmakesâ that money and some traders are making money and the market maker is âlosingâ that money. Is that the same thing as somebody else having to lose money in order for you make money??? Itâs debateable. OK: it does get a lot more complicated than that but very simply put thatâs whatâs happening.
But itâs nothing that you need to concern yourself with though. Not in FOREX anyway. Put another way and even if people donât agree with my argument above: if youâve got a moral issue with something like that then donât even look at this business. If youâve been long a stock index future for a good while and have been âitchingâ to take profit and stop and reverse your position, and trouble in the Middle East, Egypt, and Libya is seen as a âGodsendâ as opposed to a human tradgedy, and you can live with profiting from that, then youâre âgood to goâ.
Simon Templar:
Thank you, Dale, both for the positive feedback and for those lengthy posts - always full of good stuff, and itâs nice to know that there are others out there who like long sentences and paragraphs!
Thanks for the compliments!!! My lengthy posts are a direct result of me receiving âone-linersâ when I started out and not being able to make sense of them and inevitably having to then ask the same question six times before understanding the answer!!! LOL!!! As a result I began going into far more detail when responding to queries than may be have been necessary. And I guess things just got progressively worse from there!!! LOL!!!
Have a nice day everyone.
Regards,
Dale.
Simon says âUnless you also believe that the US faked the moon landings, and that [I]Elvis is still alive[/I]â
[B]But he is Simon! I just saw him! [/B]
To the point:
We are using the same tools that major traders use. If you canât earn money doing this, then the DOW and NASDAQ are scams, Wall Street is a hoax, and we should be concentrating on planting next yearâs crops as all economic theory and corporate ventures since the launching of the Plimouth Plantations was a waste of time.
Itâs training, discipline, tenacity, or consider finding yourself another venue.
A trade means that there is someone buying and someone selling. What drives prices up or down is the feeling behind the traders, and the consensus built around it. So, yes for every experienced trader there are probably many beginner traders eaten alive. It is a harsh world but it takes a long time to get on the side of the experienced traders.
For me, itâs been about 6 months since I opened a demo account and nearly 2 months have passed since my live account.
For my demo account, I have never gotten past 2 months of consistent profits. Even with full knowledge of that, I dove into live account. Did I know if live account would be a worse, more harrowing experience? Definitely, but I believe in doing the hard stuff (psychology behind real money, the jitters of pulling a trade, worrying over leaving money on the table) NOW.
However, itâs not like Iâve thrown every penny into this account. On writing, I am still trading an account with a total equity of 20 dollars. IF things look up (consistent profits for 3 months), I will double that amount, and double that, and double that even more after every successive 3 months.
Long story short, no I am not a professional trader YET, but I am working towards that goal one step at a time with the harshest environment I can muster.
BabyPips school is a great place to get some basics down. There is tons of information on every possible subject on the internet. Just type âforex price actionâ or âforex trading money managementâ in google and skip anything where itâs an obvious sales pitch. Donât waste your time with people obviously trying to sell you stuff. If they were that good, they would be trading instead of selling. Though some excellent videos are made by good instructers just trying to get some free advertising. Search for good videos. If you find a good one from a good instructor, search the internet for more videos by the same instructer. Sometimes they will have another 20 good ones out there. So take what you can use, ignore the rest, and donât buy anything from them. Some are really good teachers, and some are pure scam artists. Itâs a jungle out there. There are also some classic books on trading you should read. Trading in the zone, Trading for a living, Trade your way to financial freedom, Reminiscences of a stock operator, Market Wizards, and others are recommended here at BP in a thread just for that purpose. You shouldnât need to read more than 5 to 7 good books though. After that, itâs just the same stuff said in different ways. Try very hard to find a trading mentor. Someone who has been trading a long time and enjoys teaching others how to trade. This might be the most important thing to get started.
You should open a demo account and trade 15M to daily to start. 15M gives you lots of trades, but many think itâs not as reliable as 1 hour or daily. Try all the timeframes between 15M and daily and see which works best for you. It will take LOTS of screen time and study to get good at this. Generally, most people start to get the hang of it in about 2,000 trades or so, they get very good at about 5,000 or so trades. So make all the mistakes in demo. Look at it like studying for a profession. Studying to be a doctor takes 8 years, for a lawyer 6 years, for a trader, 2 to 5 years. And of course, many start out in those professions and decide somewhere along the way that itâs just not for them. Donât waste years trying to find the Holy Grail of trading. Concentrate on price action trading. Study to gain a deep understanding of what moves price. Then practice what you have learned in demo. Never risk more than 1% of your entire account on any single trade. Study money management and become an expert in it. Iâm sure others have good advice on how to start, but that should get you going. Enjoy the journey!
Funny you mention this:
And of course, many start out in those professions and decide somewhere along the way that itâs just not for them.
Some years ago I had a client (IT business) who had studied to become a lawyer. Seven years it took her (that was the norm in those days but theyâve made it âeasierâ here now). After a few years in practice she just couldnât take dealing with the âfilthâ thatâs a part of the job. She now exports dried flowers from South Africa!!!
I guess the point is that if youâve tried and find itâs not for you then no harm done and no need to feel that youâve let yourself down or anything like that.
Regards,
Dale.
Sure. The good thing about Forex is you can try it absolutely free. As far as more experienced traders taking money from less experienced ones, yes, that happens in any market. But a new trader doesnât have to fall into that trap. Simply trade demo until you have three profitable months in a row. Just donât be surprised if that simple sounding task takes two or three years, or even longer. As long as we arenât paying for the education with anything but our time, and we enjoy learning about Forex trading, it just takes as long as it takes. As far as how I wound up here, I thought this should be easy after trading other markets. I found it to be very challenging and guess I was hooked by the challenge of it. Perhaps Iâll get bored with it in the future and move on to something else, but for now, itâs still a great challenge and I really enjoy having a good week or good month at it.