Personally, I think there is a need for understanding some of the principles here and to stand back and take a look at the site as a whole.
There are maybe two types of moderation involved here. One is concerned with blatant and clear infringement of rules (either the site’s own or public laws, etc), and the other concerns the quality and content of posts.
If we focus on the site as a whole and not just on the forum then this is an extremely good site offering plenty of content for beginners. But it is also a purely commercial site and its existence depends entirely on revenue, which is mainly derived from advertising. But this revenue, in the long term is dependent on the volume of the site traffic (including but not exclusively from the forum). Therefore in order for people to be able to enjoy the benefits of this site it is also necessary to accept that the owners have to manage their revenue potential and their site traffic as a whole.
This inevitably reflects in the moderating policy concerning the forum. Clearly, the moderators are active whenever the site rules are blatantly breached, but the issue of “quality” moderation is very much more complex. If it is too harsh then the traffic decreases noticeably, but if it is too lenient then long term, experienced posters grow bored and leave and the Newbies do not receive any service anymore and the site loses its reputation - and its traffic. Somewhere there is a middle road needed here!
In this particular example we have a combination of “quality” problem and “infringement” problem in the form of copy/pasted material that could even be copyright. I think, regarding the quality aspect, there is need to “grin and bear it” to a certain extent, as it is, afterall, volume. But the copy/paste issue? well that is difficult to understand why it is not addressed.
…but I must stop otherwise I will be disturbing someone’s hot dinners, here…
Very helpful and interesting post, thank you Manxx.
You make several points which I hadn’t really thought about in those terms.
(I wish you were moderating the forum!).
I agree. I think this is partly why so many people feel worked up about the way the forum itself is managed. If the rest of the site were not worth bothering with, and had no real value, one would be more inclined just to ignore it altogether. But as you say, that isn’t the case at all.
This is exactly what’s been happening for years.[quote=“Manxx, post:3, topic:112641”]
But the copy/paste issue? well that is difficult to understand why it is not addressed.
[/quote]
Indeed.
It seems to many of us to typify and ecapsulate the entirety of the issues involving how the forum is run.
I’ve address this with you directly and elsewhere. You have to give our process a chance to work out. Once a user is “removed”, their accounts are sanitized (username and email addresses are randomized), and posts are queued for removal if they violate any forum policies. The two users mentioned were both banned permanently, just recently, after both were serving temporary bans (not simultaneously) for repeat bad behavior related to copy and paste,. As soon as the users were active again, and doing the copy and paste, they were permanently banned.
This process doesn’t happen in a hour or a day as we give users a chance to reply back to our PMs, to change their content, or to voice any concerns. You both know this, LaughingCharlie and TacitaTrader, as I’ve mentioned it in previous discussions in public and to you directly. And each reported flag was dealt with, normally within hours of being reported.
So please be patient. The posts will be removed by the system.
You say that, but we can all see they’ve been there for MANY WEEKS.
In other forums, they’re removed on sight. Why can’t you do that? Clearly you know about them, so why not click the delete button in your moderation panel and solve the problem?
You’ve been saying this, or the equivalent, for years.
Meanwhile, all your members who comment on this have known for weeks, from their posts and from the sources from which they were stolen, that Estis and Esche are the same person. Everyone but the moderators knows!
Whilst not wanting to dilute the issue, I think it is important for everyone to respect the site owners’ response to these issues and let it rest.
Posters have a right to raise concerns and I am sure the owners respect and willingly encourage that. But once they have addressed the issues then I think one has to either accept their position or move on.
It seems this particular issue has been thoroughly advertised, and responded to, both openly here on the forum and privately with some members. Personally, I think that it is better to now just accept the situation and concentrate on the key purpose of this forum (and what it does exceedingly well, thanks to its membership) - addressing forex-related questions with particular regard to beginners’ needs.
Let the owners do their thing, they have their agenda, methods and objectives. It is our role to live with it, and within it, regardless of whether it meets one’s own ideals and preferences.
Just out of curiosity, I have been reading some other site forums, and I personally think that the overall moderation and control on this particular forum is impressive and effective. Maybe it is better to concentrate on building up what makes this site great rather than on magnifying the relatively few blemishes that irritate and destroy.
These kinds of discussions are necessary, but also rather negative and depressing. We are here to trade and talk about trading and learn about making profits…its what we are, its what we do
They ignore, censor, and suggest that people complaining should leave.
But in the case of an argument or a discussion, the no-value posts and troll posts and the pasted-in posts are invariably the ones that survive moderation.
I do feel the same as you all regarding these issues, whether it is trolls, copy/pastes, sales or just plain junk. But I think there comes a point where one has to accept that the owners have been made aware of them, and have acknowledged that these exist. Then after that one has to just accept that they have the right, as owners, to decide how and when they will deal with them, or not, as the case may be? I see little benefit in drawing up battle lines and winding up the emotive content involved.
The key attractiveness of this site is its community spirit and the feeling that one is communicating with genuine people with genuine interests and getting to know one another as individuals, albeit behind internet shields! Such a community should be free to raise such issues and expect a response, but ultimately must accept the line taken by the owners or move on. But, ultimately, the character and value of the community is created by its members, not by the owners. It is you, people, that make BP forum what it is - and you can, and do, create that with or without these interfering rogue postings.
The quality posts are still there…somewhere (maybe just not quite so many)
I think you are all great and I really hurt to see such pained agonies over these issues from genuine, conscientious people.
They acknowledge a small minority of them, if enough people complain for long enough, loudly enough, and publicly as well as privately.
But without many people doing all that, it doesn’t even get acknowledged at all.
That’s very reasonable.
People have been moving on for ages and ages.
Traffic, membership and posting are all reduced as a result, while other forums experience the exact opposite.
And still they won’t listen.
Pipstradamus eventually acknowledged to me that Estis and Esche are probably the same person, but added “we have to treat those two users as two separate incidents and let the process play out. That’s the policy and that’s the plan going forward.”
They apparently just don’t understand that the fact that that’s the plan going forward is what’s producing the result that their members are leaving, posting is reduced, participation is reduced, and the place is increasingly becoming a laughing stock.
But how can they STILL not understand this, for so long? When generations of members (often on their way out to find other forums) have explained the exact same things to them. It defies all logic.
It’s as frustrating as hell, anyway.
Partly, as you pointed out Manxx, because there is actually some valuable content here.
it takes weeks to get stolen posts remove from the forum, the mods just ignore reports, or they reply with automation reply and still they don’t remove the paste in posts
this seems crazy
a whole group of members must complain loudly for many weeks to get paste in posts removed!!?
He says that both users are banned and the posts were removed.
Congratulations and thanks to all who worked so unstintingly for so many weeks simply to achieve an outcome that in any other forum would have taken five minutes. I wonder how many more members were lost in exasperation while “the process worked out”.
Not to Pipstradamus, apparently. Only to everyone else in the world.
Personally, I think they probably don’t even believe that it’s so. They probably believe that the fact that so many people have been telling them exactly the same things for years is “all just a coincidence” or something. You couldn’t be running a business and acknowledge the reality of that and just not do anything about it, could you?!
I think what lies behind all this never-ending stuff is that they really just don’t acknowledge that it’s all their decisions and “process” that’s causing the slump in membership, posting and traffic.
Weird, for sure, but kind of logical? Otherwise it’s really totally inexplicable.
Possibly, but I really hope not. That would not resolve anything and only create more discontent.
In any business today one key word is transparency. Customers are no longer content to just accept what is given.
I am convinced that the owners care about the quality of their forum and not just the volumes. To think otherwise would be out of context with the rest of this site and the investment they have made in it.
I still urge that you all give (even more) time for the owners to respond and explain their approach. That is the only decent way to do business nowadays and I am sure, having just invested in this new forum, the owners will explain more rather than simply shutting the door on you all - what could that possibly gain? But at present this thread is growing faster than they can even keep up with!
To be honest Manxx, thinking that is illogical. Volume drives traffic, traffic drives clicks, clicks drive potential leads, leads drive revenue? It’s a underlying business model, just like trading. The owners don’t necessarily have to take the members best interest in mind, just like trading unethical events with the potential to turn a profit?
