Do it twice with less than a 25% draw down in capital, and I’ll give you 5 figures. no joke. I’m as serious as a heart attack. do it twice…and i’ll sign whatever you want for me to authorize you to trade 20K starting the next day.
If you are a consistent winner, isn’t it possible to win an average 10% ROI by simply increasing the size of your positions? The downswings are going to hurt more, but with appropriate money management your account shouldn’t go bust.
Why not 100% by increasing again? with appropriate money management it should be okay.
I’ve read this statement three or four times … cry-laugh-cry-laugh…
That’s like saying you should have your daily shower, for hygienic reasons … but watch out you don’t get wet.
Position size is a major part (or the most important part) of money management; hence there is no way to properly manage your money/risk when increasing your position size wildly at the same time … unless you want to place your S/L at 2 or 3 pips, which isn’t really smart.
The superior strat is going for a lower daily target and let compound work in your favour.
Read what Clint had to say on this, in the Q&A when he became an Honorary FX-Man, on this forum.
O.
Hello.
Let me first say this:
I REALLY DO ‘support the underdog’. Or rather: over the years I’ve stopped having that ‘dogmatic’ approach and ‘cutting new traders off at the knees’ before they’ve even given it a ‘go’. The point is that nothing is IMPOSSIBLE. But there is a HUGE difference between POSSIBLE and PROBABLE. In context: is it POSSIBLE make 10% per day every single trading day FOREVER AND EVER AFTER??? I personally don’t think so but MAYBE it can be done. Is it PROBABLE that you’re going to make 10% per day every single trading day FOREVER AND EVER AFTER??? NO. Definitely NOT in my humble opinion. Sorry but there is such a thing as reality. One thing I don’t see here that’s been mentioned or thought of but IS reality: it only takes one or two losses in a row to dramatically ‘turn things on their head’. In other words: after having realised those losses you now have to make a certain percentage just to get back to breakeven. So now on THAT particular day you ACTUALLY have to make MORE than 10% to be able say that you’ve made your 10% for that day (that sounds strange but I think you’ll understand what I’m trying to say). Somewhere around here I posted a table that shows what percentage gain is required just to get an account back to breakeven and the percentage gain required just to get an account back to breakeven increases exponentially the greater the loss or drawdown.
Here is link to ‘that other forex site’ where I was, at first, rather ‘proud’ of the chap given that he had, what I considered anyway, realistic expectations:
Targeting yearly 60% or more in LIVE Account next 25 years @ Forex Factory
(I’m ‘fintrans’ on that site and I don’t even know why to be honest).
Anyway: I read through what appeared to be a very well thought out ‘plan of action’ and, aside from the ‘trading fundamentally’ part (which I’m not capable of doing), I was quite impressed. Then one or two negative posts were posted and I felt sorry for the guy and decided to encourage him. So far so good. Only LATER ON did he post a link to one of those ‘trading competitions’ that he’s entered (at Dukascopy) so I checked the link to see his performance. Currently he’s rated NINTH and I was quite impressed. But then I realised: he started three months ago with a balance of $100 000 and the account is now well over $200 000. There is a great disparity between his realistic goal and his actual, but DEMO, performance. And THEREIN lies the problem!!! And unfortunately and as supportive as I was: I’ve a BAD feeling that once the guy starts trading live he is going to try to replicate his demo performance on his live account and I think the end result is going to be ‘tears’. And if you do take a look at the link to Dukascopy I’m willing to bet that the same will happen with all of the other people listed as the ‘top ten’. First: demo trading, no matter HOW hard you try to ‘convince’ yourself that you’re treating it as if it were real money, doesn’t work. Second: I honestly believe that with strict adherence to risk and money management rules and therefore the correct position sizing it’s just not possible to achieve results like that (over 100% gain in just under three months). Furthermore: with a small live account it’s normally relatively easy to grow it very quickly (I’m talking about these $100 accounts etc.) simply because it’s such a small amount of money most traders will have the attitude that, well, if it gets wiped out, it’s not ‘biggie’. The same psychology, up until this point, is being applied on the $100 live account as was being applied (unknowingly) on the demo account. But for some strange reason: the bigger your account gets the harder it becomes to make those same gains consistently. THEORETICALLY this should not be the case but in practise it is indeed the case (well: that based on MY OWN experience anyway). One would THINK that it should be the other way around but for some reason it doesn’t appear to be the case. As noted: not in my experience anyway. On more than one occasion I’ve taken a small account and grown it into something ‘worth having’ over, say, for example, seven months. And then ONE DAY, for NO GOOD REASON, I’ve gone and broken every single rule both in MY ‘book’ and those of my trading system and it’s normally taken two trades to set me back MONTHS. The first trade being ‘the big loser’ and the inevitable second ‘revenge trade’ that follows!!! Until that’s happened to you: you cannot have ANY idea how difficult it is to ‘pick yourself up’ again.
I’m not trying to discourage you in any way I assure you and I do wish you well. But my advice (for what it’s worth): lower your expectations because if you don’t you’re already ‘sowing the seeds’ for eventual failure. 10% per month??? No problem. I’d EVEN go so far as to say that 10% per WEEK is ‘doable’. But let me qualify this by saying 10% ON AVERAGE over a long period not 10% every single month or week. I’ve been fortunate enough, on occasion (very few I might add), to close a week ‘up’ with over 50%. But over a long period of time I can guarantee you that on AVERAGE what I’m capable of making CONSISTENTLY is nowhere NEAR that. Alright: I’m guessing also that this is trading system dependant. Most all of my trading systems are trend following systems so I get ‘chopped up’ a lot during ranging periods which is unfortunate. From what I gather: you’re not going to be trend trading so MAYBE things will be a lot different for you. But 10% CONSISTENTLY DAILY??? I really do wish you the BEST and I hope that you do INDEED BECOME the BEST trader that you’re capable of becoming. But again: 10% CONSISTENTLY DAILY??? I personally cannot encourage you to follow that path.
And one last thing: I know people are sick and tired (probably) of my ‘banging on’ about one of Wilder’s books entitle ‘The Adam Theory of Markets’. But do me (yourself) a favour and either buy the book or download it from either my forums or there is a link on my ‘Adam Theory’ thread where it can be download from somewhere else. Forget about ‘Adam Theory’ for now (I’m experimenting with it now to see if it has substance). It’s his TEN RULES THAT ARE NEVER TO BE BROKEN is what I’d like for you to see and have on your desk, as I now do, and read them every single day before I even open my trading platform. Because I know that is the ONLY way I’m not going to ‘rinse and repeat’ my previous failures. I honestly believe (and I know that there are many that disagree with me here but be that as it may): this business is quite possibly 95% trader psychology and 5% trading system or trading methodology. Do those percentages ‘ring a bell’??? I’ve ‘messed up’ MORE than a few times and do you know WHY??? Simply because I’m human. We’re all human. It comes down to discipline and, according the statistics, 95% of us humans will at SOME point fail in their discipline. That ‘top 5%’ that actually ‘make it’ in this business and manage to REMAIN in that ‘top 5%’ are the ones that have conquered the ‘discipline demon’ (and I know I STILL, after all these years at this ‘lark’, are still plagued by the said ‘discipline demon’). And the only way that I’m going to stand any chance of FINALLY being CONSISTENTLY disciplined is by having those ten trading rules ‘in my face’ all day every day. What’s more: if ALL leverage was taken away TOTALLY and traders followed those ten rules I’ll guarantee you that the 95%/5% (losers/winners) statistics would be reversed ‘on a dime’. There would be FAR fewer traders around to start with because traders would then have to have REAL money to trade. There would be WAY fewer brokers around because the ‘bucketshops’ would either go out of business of close down because all of a sudden the ‘odds’ are no longer stacked in their favour. And these grand ideas of turning $10 in $1 000 000 in two weeks would simply die a very sudden death.
Anyway: there’s my input and advice and encouragement (believe it not: this is meant to be encouraging)!!! LOL!!!
Regards,
Dale.
some of you keep dreaming, while i focus on the reality. your losses will be my wins. thanks 
Good morning,
Dale and Jay, Thanks for using your valuable time to sit and write in this thread…
Just so you know, I AM digesting the information you provide to us/I… Im not sure how many traders are here for 10% daily and taking it serious… Just because a few say impossible, dont means im dropping my gloves, I didnt hear no bell…
I, Personally, Think it is possible, and thats what really matters…
Have a great week of Profits Fellas’ * Hat Tip
You’d be the only person in history to have ever achieved it, but good luck with it anyway.
Hello.
Well, as always, it’s a pleasure, at least from my side anyway.
And I’m afraid I have to agree with you on the above. That is true. If things don’t turn out the way planned though: don’t let it get you down. It doesn’t mean you’ve failed. Not at all. And nobody on THESE forums will say ‘Well: I told you so didn’t I’. So that you don’t have to worry about either. As I’ve noted: I THINK that you’ll find out soon enough that you’ll need to take down your expectations one or two notches but, truly, I hope I’m wrong about that.
But hey: think about it. If someone, a few years ago, mentioned that they were writing code that would take millions if not billions out of the markets every day through high frequency trading or these fancy algorithms that take just a fraction of points out of the market but ‘rinse and repeat’ probably a few hundred if not thousands of times a day: well they would’ve gotten laughed at. So ‘never say never’!!! LOL!!! Alright: I really doubt that even WITH this fancy software and hardware they’re making 10% per day!!! Just bear THAT in mind!!! LOL!!!
I’ll tell you this too for nothing: if I believed all the ‘naysayers’ that I’m surrounded with (or WAS surrounded with anyway) then I’d have given up a LONG time ago. Believe me. Alright: it’s common knowledge around here how I feel about trading Spot FOREX and because I ‘lost the farm’ trading Spot FOREX MAYBE they were right and had valid reasons for saying ‘you just cannot make money in this business’. But a lot of other things have changed since (experience and knowledge gained and a lot of personal lessons learned etc.) so I’ll never know really whether it was because I was trading Spot FOREX and not what I trade now (although I HAVE not too long ago done another ‘test’ and I failed miserably trading Spot FOREX using EXACTLY the same trading systems as I do for trading CFDs on stocks, indices, and commodities. I lost 10% of the demo Spot FOREX account and made 10% trading ‘my stuff’ over the exact same one month period so WHO knows)!!! LOL!!!
Regards,
Dale.
Regards,
Dale.
It is possible to catch up to a static return of 2,600% (10% * 260 trading days) via 31.2% monthly compounding returns.
Although such an average is difficult it is far from impossible with an initial risk of ~4.5%.
The key is to control drawdown by not losing (all of) what is risked; you must be a master of position sizing & space manipulation or you have no hope. The time it takes to recoup losses has to be VERY SMALL.
What is impossible for most is possible for a few who first believe that it is possible.
This thread is so entertaining. 
But I’m with Jay, you ever do that, I’ll be sending you 6 figures to your door.
Do you know what is totally strange, and please take this with a grain of salt.
If i said to you your aim was to lose 10% a day, you could do it, I could do it, and perhaps even a newbie could to it, so it can be done.
Now if i said your aim was to make 10% a day, you could not do it, I could not do it, and a newbie could most certainly not do it.
It’s funny how the flip side of the coin, which is 50/50 is actually unevenly weighted. What is appeared to be a 50/50 flip, is, actually harder to than appears. Just an interesting way to look at this.
What makes matters worse is that If i applied the above to say 100% of your bank roll, I bet you could easily loose it all in one day if that was your aim. Open a demo, and set yourself the challenge to lose every penny in 24 hours, and do you know what, its actually very easy. Now open an identical account and try and make 100% in 24 hours, ha, now your 50/50 flip coin is harder than it seems!!!
Is it wise to tell someone that they can’t do something simply because you cannot?
3 years ago, when I started posting on the forum of he who’s name cannot be spoken, many were they who believed certain things to be impossible which some now achieve w/ ease (ES/PIP, Dragon, and others).
I will not say that I can do something that I am not willing to prove, but I will say that I know It to be true because I have seen it with my own eyes.
^ I totally agree.
Personally I’m not aiming for 10% daily. In fact I’d be happy to make 1% per week.
But it’s not a question of how many pips you win. It’s what you DO with those pips you win. Winning 100 pips won’t mean much to your account if you’re trading micros with no leverage in a million dollar account.
Well this is histrionic. Trading 100% is not mathematically recoverable. But you can trade with 10% of your balance into perpetuity with proper money management i.e. constantly scaling your position with your current balance so you won’t go bust. Yes your balance will dwindle after successive losses, but the opposite is also true. All that changes is the variance of your wins and losses. If you can live with this variance, go for it.
Jezzode, you can’t think of forex like flipping a coin, because it’s no roulette game with two possible situations (red, black) plus 0. in my view its more like racing with a beetle against a veyron and hoping that the veyron driver misses a gear and you are lucky to drive “herbie”.
You have good patience Jezzode. Lol. If it was me, I would have just said: “No one can make 10% a day consistently. Period. End of story. Give it a rest guys. You’re all dreaming. And until you can admit it, good luck.”
See how simple that was? Would have shaved pages off this thread and useless arguments.
First of all I did not mention the word Roulette. And secondly there are two ways you can enter a trade, you either buy or you either sell. Hence you have a 50/50 shot as to if you have chosen the correct short/medium or even long term trend from the point of entry.
Trading is no game of luck, and hard work does literally pay off 
if it was that easy, what are all the big banks with their huge moneypower and scientists doing wrong? there is no perpetuum mobile. if someone wins, another one has to lose it. simple is that. the market is not producing money. it is changed between the participants.
Well, ok, it really is that easy.
You don’t need huge money power, what you need is initiative and clear logical approach.
Sure as someone wins another loses, thats all part of the game.
Good Morning Traders,
OK, since I seem to be the only one that thinks its possible, I will start another thread for this, which you can follow me for a month. I will be using my Oanda account, which is sitting at .78–YES, .78 Cents
10% seems high, so to make this more realistic, I will aim for 5%, which still isnt bad. I will make that my target, and go from there.
So, without further ado, I will post the thread shortly, with my strat…
Lets see what happens,