Border Patrol check point

The Lobby
1

Anybody gone through a Border Patrol checkpoint lately, within the continental US, not leaving the US?

Just was wondering what you thought when you were asked where you were going? Actually i have been contemplating telling them, “Anywhere i want! Just woke up this morning and decided to drive down the road!”:stuck_out_tongue:

Actually have only contemplated this because of the horror stories about them tearing your car apart and finding nothing and then you have to put it back together. (Don’t know if that is true or not, just been told).

Of course they won’t have to ask in a year or so, they will just monitor your license plate when you drive by one of their tracking devices.

Okay, so what is worse, being tracked openly or covertly?:confused:

2

That’s like having to choose between cholera or typhus… Both suck.

3

Has this actually happened to you?

Give us the details.

4

Sure has. Within the past 3 years on "I10 heading East at Exit 102 " this has happened a number of times.

First Question:“U.S citizen?” (To each individual in the vehicle)
Answer: “Yes”

Second Question: "Where are you going?"
First time asked: Startled, taken aback :eek:
Answer: “Our destination”

Second and Subsequent times asked: Irritated however respectful
Answer: “Our destination” (While refraining from voicing what everyone else in
the car wants to say, “Wherever we want to go!”):smiley:

Some other responses we would like to voice:

  1. Why does it matter?
  2. Why do i need a pass? I lost my “Liberty” pass, after 9/11!

Of course we don’t voice any of these, for fear of retribution. That is to say that they would most likely delay our trip for whatever reason they chose!

And before anybody waves a flag, My Father, Stepfather, Uncle, Brother and myself have all served in the military! My father died on the way home from Viet Nam in Germany after serving 2 tours of duty as a door gunner on a chopper (still active duty). My uncle was paralyzed from the waist down in Viet Nam when his APC was blown up. My brother after serving 12 or so years in the Coast Guard became disabled due to an injury sustained on the CG cutter Valiant. I however, did not serve long enough to have their fates bestowed upon me unfortunately.

Please note that i only said the above to belay any flaming by anyone about being un-American!

5

Even as a Swede, I dare say that NOT questioning this surveillance is what would be un-American!

Land of the Free, home of the Brave, right? Don’t let some f u c k e r s in a cave somewhere steal that from you!

6

Thanks MacGyver, i appreciate that, you are exactly right!

7

[B]rtv2[/B]

In reading your story, I’m trying to read between the lines. I suspect that you are in the southwestern U.S., near the Mexican border (I know that you told us exactly where this happened, but I’m not familiar with I-10, so I can only guess where you are).

And, I suspect that you are the victim of racial profiling, although you didn’t say so.

I think there are two powerful, political forces at work here:

[B]Issue no.1 —[/B] The demand on the part of most Americans that we get our southern border under control, stop the flood of illegal immigrants pouring into our country, and deal with the illegals who are already here. Obviously, if you are in the southwestern border area, you are in the center of this battle. And, clearly, this battle is personally painful for you.

I honestly don’t know how the balance should be struck between (a) the government’s mandate to enforce the law, and (b) the right of law-abiding citizens to be free from government intrusion into their lives.

To you, personally, this first issue is probably the more important. But, for the country, I think that the second issue is far more threatening to our freedom.

[B]Issue no. 2 —[/B] The take-over of our government by statists, who believe that citizens exist to serve the interests of the state, and it is the state’s duty to control its citizens. This is a much larger issue than the Mexican border problem. This is an issue which will destroy the freedom of every American, if we do not stop it now.

I’d like to share three quotes which tie in with no. 2, above.

In July 2008, when he was running for president, Obama accidentally revealed part of his true agenda. He has never repeated this — and, I predict, never will:

[B]“We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”[/B]
— Barak Obama, July 2008

Think about that. A civilian national security force as large and powerful as the strongest military force in the world. Maybe they’ll call it State Security, or SS for short.

Unless we band together, rise up, and destroy this totalitarian regime in its infancy, we will all be guilty of assisting our own political suicide.

I’d like to quote two men who [B]deserve[/B] the title President of the United States.

From President Thomas Jefferson:

[B]“When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”[/B]
— Thomas Jefferson

And from President Abraham Lincoln:

[B]"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better.

“This is a most valuable - a most sacred - right, a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world.”[/B]
— Abraham Lincoln

Clint

8

Thanks Clint, “a stones throw away” from the Mexican Border is right.

9

If it’s any consolation, you’re not the only ones soon living in Orwell’s 1984.

Here in Sweden, after a major political debate and crisis where the government was almost (sadly just almost) voted down by its own, we now have THE most intrusive elecrtronical surveillance in the world.

Some Swedish newspapers have moved their servers abroad for fear of the military and our CIA snooping into their traffic on the net, phones etc.

Our neighboring countries Finland, Norway and Denmark are quite unhappy also since the new law essentially gives the military the right to eavesdrop on ALL traffic passing through Swedish territory.

The fight you speak of Clint isn’t just an American fight, it’s world wide and we’re losing fast!

10

[B]mh, [/B]

Sorry for the delay in replying to your post.

[B]It’s no consolation[/B], at all, to know that totalitarianism is engulfing the globe. It’s depressing.

There have always been elitists with dreams of bringing the entire world under a one-world government, through which they could re-engineer society to further their own agendas. But, such a thing has been physically and politically impossible — until recently.

Now, with RFID tracking capabilities, with the National Security Agency able to monitor every telephone call in the world, with spy-satellite cameras that have three-inch resolution, and who-knows-what-else, governments have unbelievable power to control and suppress huge populations. How can we fight back against that kind of power?

The idea of mobilizing like-minded individuals to band together and fight the government conjures up images of peasants with pitchforks trying to storm the castle walls.

Obama is encouraging his followers to report people who post things online, or distribute things by email, critical of his socialist medical plan. He has set up a special email account for these reports ([email protected]).

Obviously, any post, blog, or email reported to this address gets the sender’s name, address, email address, and IP address entered into Obama’s database of people to watch.

Critics refer to this as [B]Obama’s Enemies List[/B]. But, soon there may be no “critics” left to complain.

Damn, I didn’t mean to get on such a rant.

Keep this topic going, if you feel like it.

Cheers,

Clint

11

Damn, if Obama has a hidden agenda of that sort, one almost doesn’t dare imagine what the old administration was up to in their days.

I have faith however. Most likely new technological developments will appear that can circumvent at least the electronical communications surveillance.

There’s already several ways to encrypt data and probably there’s some teenager hacker sitting somewhere who’s going to screw up the plans of governments everywhere.

As for the satellites there’s not much we can do, except to make sure our make up looks good before we go out the door… :frowning:

The real scariness begins if/when the citizens themselves start reporting their neighbours and such to the authorities. That’s when Stalin, Hitler and their kind will be smiling in their graves.

Freedom is in the mind of a people, only when that is threatened do we need to be fearful. I’m afraid that we’re moving in that direction, but we’re not there just yet.

In the longer term I have faith, but in the shorter term (the nearest 10-20 years) it looks a lot less nice. Like they say, it’s going to get worse before it gets better…

In the meantime, encrypt all your computers and hard drives with truecrypt, if you use windows - make sure you run updated anti virus/spyware/firewall, use encryption for email you don’t want read by the nsa.
A bonus is that if your computer is stolen the thieves can never access your data, so passwords, credit card numbers etc remain safe.

Protect your integrity as best you can
I have never understood what idiots mean when they go: “I have nothing to hide, so i don’t mind” Such people are too stupid to argue with.

I don’t have anything to hide either, but that doesn’t mean that I’ll accept some agency or whatever to snoop through my stuff! Unless we’re actually suspects due to evidence,leave us alone!

13

Are my eyes deceiving me or did a post or 2 get purged out of this thread?

14

It’s almost ridiculously obvious that you’re an reincarnation of a former poster…

No other newbie with 11 posts, registered this month would either know that, or give a ****.

I can’t believe you just don’t give up. What do you ever think you can gain? You’re just wasting your time as I’m wasting mine right now writing this.

Move on dude, for your own sake

15

Then quit wasting your time and I’ll decide how I use my time. Do me a favor and please quit stalking me on this forum.

16

Why don’t you just quit trolling instead? :stuck_out_tongue:

Besides, the only thing I stalk are little innocent pips :smiley:

17

If anyone is trolling, that would be you.

18

Went through the east bound I10 checkpoint at mile marker 102 in Texas again on friday the 7th of June.

First Question: US citizen.
Response: yes

Second Question: Where are you going?
Response: San Antonio. Did not know what to say, stuttered abit. Was
wondering if that was any type of probable cause for them to
check out the vehicle. What i mean by that is, because i delayed
in answering their question, would that give them probable cause
to search the vehicle?

            My thought process delay was incurred because i had two different 
            destinations in mind. First, i wanted to go tubing on the
            Guadelupe River, however Canyon Damn is only letting out 62cfs. A 
            normal 3 1/2 hour trip now takes 11 hours! :D This river stays 
            about 65 degrees in the summer.  Second i wanted to go fishing in 
            Corpus Christi on Bob Hall pier on the coast. Two different 
            destinations but did not know what to say to the border patrol agent 
            so i told him somewhere in the middle. :confused:

Third Question: Anything illegal in the trunk?
Response: Hell no. (Agent just turned his head and laughed)

It is my opinion that the agent asked the third question because i delayed in my response to the second question.

Unfortunately i rolled the window all the way down and the border patrol agent
felt right at home and stuck his head in the vehicle while resting his arms on the door.

Next time i will only roll down the window just enough to hear him. Don’t want him to make himself right at home in my car!

Apparently within the U.S. there must be probable cause and then the automobile creates an “exigent circumstance” by it’s “ready mobility”.

On youtube is a video about a baptist preacher being assaulted at a border patrol checkpoint, called, “Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches”.

This preacher, presented no threat, however was beaten.

One of the probems that i see here is that the individual states, the collective states within the United States, thought that it was the federal governments obligation to control illegal immigration and now that the federal government has taken steps to curb illegal immigration, there is violent action taken against law abiding citizens. Why? :confused:

If you will note, the state DPS officer requested the federal government agent to recheck the vehicle and the federal agent refused the requests of the state officer!:eek:

Questions:

  1. Why would the federal officer refuse to perform a simple act of
    re-verification of the vehicle for illegal drugs from a state officer?
  2. Why when no threat of violence, or fear or fear of harm of life would there be such drastic measures that included such violence? Especially after the drug dog was used to check the vehicle! Did i miss something? What happened to that dogs nose such that that dog no longer detected drugs? Or was it a power trip by a public servant that carries a firearm? (No disrespect intended, but it was either the dog was wrong or the agent was wrong, which one?)
  3. This lays at the foundation of the validity of either the use of drug dogs or the use of probable cause at these border patrol checkpoints, or does it?
  4. If no probable cause then why are legal residents of the United States that respond yes to the first question, why are we subjected to the second question, “Where are you going?”. As with me, i delayed in responding and was subjected to a third question!
  5. If these checkpoints are, “Illegal Immigration Checkpoints”, then why, when the federal agents determine that all in the vehicle are legal citizens are the questions continued? Should’nt the questions be stopped?

Edit: I only ask these questions and make comments to gain intelligent insights from others. I do not seek to inflame anything, and as such would request that all responses are civil as these are issues that alot of civilized countries are directly involved with at this very moment. This is a direct decay or our civil liberties and freedoms, the ability to freely move about the confines of the borders of our countries.

19

As a non-American I’m not very familiar with your laws, but the famous amendment of the “right not to answer” comes to mind.

What legal rights do these border patrol officers actually posses? From a legal viewpoint, what are they allowed to ask? Is it legal for them to ask where a US citizen is going?
Sounds to me like they won’t take no for an answer, instead punishing you with searching the car etc if you do not please them. That behavior is abuse of power and most likely that has to be a crime?

I absolutely do understand the need for them with the big problems you’re having with illegal immigrants and drug smuggling. (Thanks the your brilliant Bush junior we in Sweden soon have half of Iraq living here, many of them illegally. There are more Iraqis in Sweden than in any other western country and as you might imagine I’m not the only one who’s more than unhappy about that.)

Anyway since we’re not a federation of states we have no internal borders of your kind. It just seems so Hitler-like to have to answer questions like “where are you going”. Soon they’ll ask why also.

Freedom must come first, even before things like immigration control, drug enforcement, etc. Why? Because without the freedom, what do you have?

20

The Iraqis conflict is another issue that is somewhat disturbing. Saddam Hussein could have been taken out by himself without massive amounts of collateral damage that we are still paying for. This could have been done a long time before WMD’s were even thought of under prior UN Resolution’s.

The, “Soon they’ll ask WHY also”, is a major concern.

As i see it, the federal government has lost one of the legs to the foundation of “Authority without Question”, over the states given this one incident, that is to say trust and cooperation. Probably not, still recall the CIA shredding documents and not to much was said.

IMO this was a federal agent, that was wrong. Where were the checks and balances between the government agencies, both Federal and State? Rather there was a one way conversation and that was a federal conversation. Then after all was said and done there was nothing found on or in the vehicle at all!

This could have been avoided if the federal agent would have cooperated with the state officer with quite less trauma too, or so called erosion, to American civil liberties and freedoms.

I can understand the arguement that a passive drug dog handler would not want to give out details of their signals to just anybody. However, misinterpreting a signal and then having a civilian endure such treatment is just beyond me.

Edit: I believe i am going to research and try and ascertain what they can and cannot do. Hopefully i will have an answer before too long.

21

Hopefully this does not offend/upset anyone. I have sent the “U.S. Customs & Border Protection” a couple of questions. Below is the email and after that is the confirmation.

                    ***************************************

With respect to the great job you guys are doing, however i do have a couple of questions?
While going thru internal continental US Border Patrol Checkpoints
(such as the I10 exit 102) citizens are asked:

  1. Are you a U.S. citizen? Response: yes
  2. Where are you going? If a person is a U.S. citizen, then why are we asked where we are going? People on the internet are linking this kind of questioning to Nazi Germany!
  3. And when i have two destinations that i have not decided upon, such as was the case 3 weeks ago, i delayed in stating my destination and was asked a third question. This question was, "Anything illegal in the trunk?

There is quite a stir on the internet (youtube, forums and the like) about legal U.S. citizens being assaulted/harassed by U.S. Border Patrol agents at these checkpoints. To that end i just wanted to make sure that when i pass through one of these checkpoints again, legally what are the questions that these agents are allowed to ask?

Specifically on youtubube there is a disturbing video of a preacher being assaulted. The title to this video is, “Baptist pastor beaten + tazed by Border patrol - 11 stitches”.

Questions regarding the above video:

  1. Why did the federal agent refuse the request of the state officer to recheck the automobile? Where was the cooperation?
  2. Who was wrong, the dog or the agent? One of them was wrong? Are drug dogs only marginally correct?
  3. The above question goes straght to the heart of “probable cause”. The exigent circumstance existed by default, an automobiles “ready mobility”. However, the probable cause did not exist, that is to say the dogs confirmation of something being wrong or that of the agent not paying attention to the signals provided by the dog.
  4. This is the most distrubing facet of all, that is, now in the minds of most involved there is a loss of trust between the citizens of the states, the state officers and the federal agents. That is to say a loss of trust by citizens and their governing authority, both state and federal.

Would it not be a wise decision to place a document on the CBP site to advise of what to expect at internal boder checkpoints within the continental U.S.?

Thank you, With Regards

Ps I searched the CBP website and did not locate this document.

                      ***************************

Thank you for contacting the Customer Service Center for Customs and Border Protection.
The reference number for your question is ‘090817-000***’.
Your question is important to us. We make every attempt to answer all questions within 48 hours of submission except weekends. If you do not hear from us within this time frame, you may contact us toll free at 1-877-CBP-5511, Monday through Friday 8:30 am to 5:00 pm Eastern Time or if dialing internationally, 001-703-526-4200. Please note that due to high call volume you may experience a delay when calling our offices.
If you need to add information to or cancel your question, you can do so by updating it through the ‘My Stuff’ section of this site.

                 *******************************

I starred out the last three reference numbers for obvious reasons. If anyone has any suggestions to what can be updated please let me know as i am not that eloquent, however it does appear that i am verbose!!!:D:p