Brokers - does WYSIWYG exist?

Hi,

I am reading a forex book and going through Baby pips concurrently. I am very excited to soon start demo trading. I have been trying to do some research about brokers. Everything (and I mean everything) I am reading is scaring the heck out of me. I read that even some of the larger brokers wait until your account gets sufficiently large ($20000+) and start widening the spreads tremendously on your exits or have very very large slippage to make sure you loose. Some have been accused of placing phantom trades and draining peoples accounts or quickly manipulating the market so that it touches your stop loss. Also some are closing accounts for placing short duration trades that may not even meet the classic definition of scalping. Most of the best funded brokers dont have many rave reviews. I am hoping these bad reviews are from people that traded emotionally stupid and did not have a plan - thus losing money and wanting to vent somewhere. I just wanted to get some up to date opinions on which brokerage house is best of the best. Brand new to the game…

Thanks,

Jeff USA :confused:

I have not made it to the 20,000 + range yet. But, I use IBFX, and have noticed a lot of bad reviews that accuse the broker of monkey business. The complaints I see are people too stupid to know how to use the platform, and blaming the broker for their own inablility to trade in sync with the market.

As an example, I’ve see lots of complaints about requotes and people not able to get out of trades when they are winning at IBFX. This happens because they are trying to manually close a trade. When you manually close it becomes a market order which says, “close at this price only.” So, when price moves and that price is no longer thier you get a requote. This can easily happen in the space of time it take your order to travel from your computer to their server.

(These people think forex is like the supermarket, and because you see a price you can automatically get it and the price will sit on the shelf until you go to pick a lot up)

Very simple solution, set a TP. Or, move your, SL postive. I’ve never had a requote after setting either of those. My trades have always exited on both of those.

But, most noobs don’t want to hear that they are stupid and their losses are their fault. They would rather blame the broker and call them a crook. A lot of complaints on boards happen because of this.

I’ve yet to find a broker that doesn’t have some trader calling them a crook. That includes market makers and ECN’s.

Your best bet is to narrow it down to the ones with the best reputations, good funding, long standing in the business, maybe some business awards, good customer service, and hopefully in your country. Then see how they fit with your needs as a trader. ( account starting size, scalping/long term, ect.)

P.S. I’ve only traded live with IBFX. But, so far they have been a fair broker for my micro account. (the few times I thought something may be fishy I checked my charts against others and everything was the way it should be)

I’ve looked through quite a few and the only two I’d personally want to go with would be IBFX or MB trading. I’m waiting for MB to get MT4 compatability done and then I’ll switch to them. MB is an ECN. No problems with IBFX, but MB is going to be easier to trade with because they don’t have limitations as to how close an order can be too price. So, it will make it easier to get in and reset SL to positive close to price or my breakeven point.

I’m not up to the 20k mark either, but I trade with Oanda and believe them to be very trustworthy. The few times I’ve had to chat with their online help they were very good at answering my questions thoroughly.

Couple that with the fact that they have a lot of capital for their company and they are registered in the US and they become one of the best in my opinion.

In the end I think it’s partly up to you to determine how a broker acts. After every week i take screen shots of my account balance and the trades I made for the week. This way if there’s any doubt as to my holdings I have verifiable proof.

As for you, focus on learning to trade first and then find a fairly reputable broker. I always suggest Oanda but I here IBFX and NorthernFinance do a decent job.

Hi, Jeff

I’m curious — what book are you reading?

Your post asks whether “what-you-see-is-what-you-get” applies to forex brokers. I can only rate one broker, FXCM, the only broker I have used. My FXCM demo account and my FXCM live account both perform as advertised. But, I’m not yet a heavy-hitter; so, if FXCM plays games with really large accounts or really large trades, that hasn’t happened to me, because I’m not there yet.

I agree with what ThePhoenix said about disgruntled customers. I think most of the complaints you hear are from customers blaming their brokers for their own mistakes. It’s a lot easier to say, ‘The broker cheated me out of my money’ — than it is to say, ‘I blew up my account because I didn’t know what I was doing’.

ThePhoenix mentioned MB Trading. I looked at them a couple of years ago, but couldn’t get comfortable with their platform and their strange order-types. Also, at that time, they didn’t even have integrated charts. It’s good that they’re adopting MT4.

You mentioned reading that some brokers widen their spreads sometimes, in order to hit customers’ stops. I don’t know how widespread that problem might be; however, if that does occur, it would be much less likely with a broker like MB Trading, because they pass bank spreads directly through to their customers, without a mark-up. Since MB doesn’t make a profit on spreads, they charge a commission on each leg of each trade. (The last time I did a comparison, MB’s spread + commission was less than FXCM’s spread.)

In the previous post, virtecs gave Oanda a vote of confidence, and mentioned that they are heavily capitalized. If size matters to you, here are some current numbers for the 4 brokers we’ve mentioned so far:

Oanda ----- adjusted net capital $169,501,514.

FXCM ------ adjusted net capital $98,456,604.

IBFX ------- adjusted net capital $39,945,958.

MB Trading - adjusted net capital $15,227,957.

These numbers were taken from a monthly CFTC report titled “Selected FCM Financial Data as of January 31, 2009”. You can see the whole report at http://www.cftc.gov/stellent/groups/public/@financialdataforfcms/documents/file/fcmdata0109.pdf It shows financial data for 134 FCM’s (Futures Commission Merchants) — but most of them are commodity futures brokers, not forex brokers, so you’ll have to search for specific forex brokers by name. The brokers listed there are all U.S. brokers, regulated by the CFTC. Foreign brokers, such as Saxo Bank, are regulated by agencies in their own countries, and they don’t appear on this list. In my opinion, you should consider only U.S. brokers.

You can open demo accounts with several forex brokers and compare them for yourself. Demo accounts are free. If you blow one up, just get a new one. If your demo account expires after 30 days, or whatever, get another one. I had a series of 30-day demo accounts with FXCM before opening a live account with them.

I hope this helps you.

Clint

Book = Adventures of a Currency Trader - Rob Booker

Thanks for all the input.

Jeff

I read that even some of the larger brokers wait until your account gets sufficiently large ($20000+) and start widening the spreads tremendously on your exits or have very very large slippage to make sure you loose.

Did this come from Booker’s book? Or did you read this somewhere else?

I think Clint was asking about the books you are reading to know where you got the above quoted information from.

I’ve never had this problem and couldn’t see Booker making such a statement.

You are correct, none of what I said is from Rob Bookers book - I did read it I just don’t remember where. $20,000 was a number used once, but I also came across “sufficiently large accounts” with no specific amount as having these problems as well. I have been reading volumes lately, sorry I don’t have exact references. I plan on starting w/ $5000 by the way.

Jeff

FIRST and foremost is the plain and simple fact that the broker you first start with will probably NOT be the broker you end up with in a few years — not only are they constantly changing to meet competition, enforcement is getting stronger (as phoenix and clint point out) and many of the smaller and more crooked shops will simply drop out.

MB with the adoption of the MT4 platform, makes it far easier for a lot of newer traders and is a rather simple platform to get used to, but to be honest, although they have variable spreads and their spreads are higher than MB’s, I use FXCM as their platform is so user friendly (to me at least) that what they take from me in spread is easily recovered, simply because of the speed of working their trades.

I would imagine, as competition increases, more and more will adopt the ECN style, which as has been pointed out, pretty much reduces any of the real or urban legends we hear about some brokers.

allow me to point out that “slippage” is real with ANY broker, which is why LEARNING the market, support and resistance and trend following is so important — if you simply close a short term trade MANUALLY, one can expect slippage from any broker, especially if the market is moving quickly.

widening the spreads is NOT used to grab sl’s, but rather to slow down the ability of “scalpers” to make more profit, but making the trade “not possible” in some cases because there is not enough room to make a profit and cover the spread at the same time, and while there are certainly brokers who will drop you for their version of “scalping” (Crown was notorious for that — make more than ONE trade of less than 6 pips more than once in two days and they would drop you — LOL), it will take you time to find one trading situation you like, and next year you may change your mind.

if you wish to scalp with real money, have an upfront talk with the management on their policies, and then see if they hold to their word ---- if not, go somewhere else with YOUR money.

what you really need to look for in a broker, if that is your choice, is how many pips AWAY from market price will they allow you to change your tp point ? There are some, like the russian brokers, who allow zero pips, meaning you can alter your sell limit ANY time you wish and there are others with up to a 15 pip limit, where you cannot alter your tp point if within 15 pips of the present market price — needless to say, THAT policy will not let you scalp successfully with limit orders, leaving you to manually close an order, and thus subject to “slippage”

Cutting back to the chase though, right now you havent a clue as to what you dont even know, so take a demo from most any reputable place, set the equity you use to THE SAME AS WHAT YOU WILL OPEN A REAL ACCOUNT WITH, and learn forex.

it takes longer than you think to become “competent” and even longer to become good, and “good” does not come from following some “system” but rather from understanding how the market works, and trust me on this one, that takes a bit of time !

go forth and LEARN every day, and every day you will know more and more and after close to a year you will be fairly decent, if that is within you.

Forex is actually rather simple, but that doesnt mean its EASY, and like anything else new, you have to learn the culture, methods and tricks before you get to wear all the stripes !

LEARN WELL

Great Post Thank You

Ok. Thanks for clearing that up. There are loads of information about trading out there. You most likely read that negative stuff on forum chatter or the likes.

The best advice I can give you besides the already good advice you got is don’t worry about it.

Like already stated. Most of that negative stuff about brokers is just chatter from losing traders.

I won’t divulge my details, but like I said before, I don’t have those problems. I am with IBFX.