Discipline vs. Greed and Fear

Beginner Questions Trading Psychology
44

I must say I think its a little late to introduce the concept now that the 100 people, whom you (not me) suggested all use the same strategy, might be using a losing strategy. What’s the point of looking at trader discipline in such a context?

If you were putting up the idea that discipline wouldn’t help 100 people who use a rubbish strategy, I am with you, but that wasn’t our starting point. In fact there’s no benefit in examining how well 100 people do using a strategy that is unprofitable. Though I suppose by the law of averages 1 of them at the tail end of the distribution might luckily become a millionaire.

45

That’s not the point i was making.

Some strategies contain discretionary elements others say when A happens do B. In trading things are also often not black and white but grey. You may take a trade according to your entry criteria without taking into consideration a factor which you are unaware of which another trader trading the strategy is aware of…he decides not to take the trade because of that factor.

I introduced the losing strategy just as a thought provoker. How many people are trying to stick to a plan which they have no idea has an edge or not and then banging their head against the wall when they make no progress?

Even a winning strategy is useless if you personally can’t trade it. If the strategy isn’t a good fit for you does that make you undisciplined?

It’s just a thinking exercise…

Most people who are [B]very good at what they do[/B] get paid a lot. You don’t get a bonus for being extra disciplined. Discipline may have an effect on how good you are but without being good enough… no ££££’s

46

Ooh, well … I’m not quite so sure about that! :slight_smile:

Nurses and teachers, some of whom are [I]brilliant[/I] at what they do, get paid peanuts. :frowning:

But I take your point about discipline, of course, and would agree that most people [B]who are very good at what they do and have chosen a potentially well-paid activity in the first place[/B] get paid a lot.

You have both made some good and interesting points in this 'ere discussion, and thank you for them. :slight_smile:

47

There’s that grey again… :slight_smile:

It’s lucky that some of them find great satisfaction and reward in the effect they have on the lives of others.

π/2 radians… it’s all about phase.

After thought, should i have said, most people who get paid a lot are very good at what they do?

Probably still more grey out there anyway…

51

Satisfaction from one’s job is a great thing, but it has no monetary value, and whether we like it or not our world more often than not revolves around money.

52

I am now retired, old and bitter and not as wealthy as I thought I deserved to be.

My advice to any young person (though I don’t know any) asking what they should do career-wise would be - go for the qualification that gets you the best paid job and then get the best paid job you can. Don’t be diverted into going for a job you enjoy, you haven’t done it yet so what do you know? And after X years you’ll find you don’t enjoy it any more, and if it hasn’t been paying well in the first place, then you’ve left yourself high and dry.

The healthy thing in life is change, not stability. Get ready for change. Money will open many options for change.

2 Likes
53

Greed and fear are extreme emotions that had much influence on your trading with discipline you can manage these two emotions . You will face these but in positive manner. Discipline is a good thing that makes your trading plan and managed.

54

No, your English is okay! I seem, as a new trader you are on the right way (according to your monthly and weekly trading plan)! But, try to concentrate more and more on your trading strategy and entry quality!

55

Be humble.

Aspiring traders should be more concerned about the discipline to continuously optimize their core strategy. Settling for something you haven’t tweaked the hell out of, is the source if your “discipline” issue while trading. Its not you per say, its the fact that you don’t trust the strategy. Rightfully so.

Stop being lazy and develop a strategy for a couple of years. Do this until you’ve answered most of your questions and developed solutions for most of the reasons behind losses. The foggy, doubtful cloud should be mostly gone before you go live.

The word here is develop folks. Not read somewhere and adopt as is. In this game there is no such thing as a credible source, other than hands on backtesting. Track records and status should mean nothing to you. You should test every single potential solution you encounter, regardless of the source. Filtering what you spend time on by source may seem like you’re being efficient but you’re actually decreasing your probability of success, a number that was low to begin with.

Take an idea you came up with, in trying to solve the reason behind a particular loss, and backtest it going back decades. Document the consistency results and repeat this process with every new idea that pops into your head or you read somewhere or someone else shared with you (regardless of who it was), all in an attempt to improve your strategy. Then combine the highly consistent concepts in chronological order based on the question they answer or objective they complete. For example the concepts that determine trend direction go before the ones that identify optimal entries. Once you have created something that you can’t google, you’re heading in the right direction. Does this mean I have to be creative? Yea you lazy bum.

Improve means make more accurate, precise, comprehensive. This is how you backtest. Some individuals are so lazy they trick themselves into thinking they don’t know how to backtest, or worse, they convince themselves that theres no way that level of effort is what it takes. They truly believe any old “profitable” strategy should work for them. But wait, how the hell do you know if a process is profitable without thoroughly backtesting it? You don’t. And once you backtest it you’ll naturally devise ways to improve the tool, so you see, theres no way around it. You must become a developer.

This is why the reason behind your desire to be a trader has to be extremely motivational. The research and development phase is tedious and seemingly endless. If you don’t want it bad enough, your resulting lack of work ethic will prevent you from realizing how essential backtesting is. If you’re staring at your trading workstation and you’re not backtesting, what is it that you’re doing exactly? Backtesting is your job, for the first couple of years at least. If you’re not working on an original strategy, you’re wasting your time. Its not about reading trading books, even thats a waste of time next to backtesting original ideas. Seriously.

I’m tired of inexperienced individuals spreading this popular misconception in the aspiring trader community. They read some Mark Douglas and suddenly they’re an expert. Dont read Mark Douglas, you’re not on that level, you mismanage your precious time by doing so. Prioritize effectively by spending 95% of your time backtesting your strategy for consistency and making improvements as you go, reserve 5% for motivational thoughts, the core reason behind your sacrifices.

R&D is the hard part of becoming a trader and it sets you up to trust your strategy and have a chance at conquering your performance psychology when you do start trading live. Skip the R&D phase and you would have to be a freak of nature to succeed. If the research and development process does not come natural to you, you may not have what it takes. Theres no shame in that. You should only feel ashamed if you do have an aptitude for this and are being a lazy bum.

Until you’ve developed a strategy for at least a couple of years, you don’t get to talk about live trading psychology.

I can be direct because I’ve been there. I’m expressing the kind of tough love I had to show myself when I first got into this business. Are you here to play games, or are you dead serious and want good advice? The truth hurts but works.

Some will shell up, critique and be offended by this post. Others will take inspiration and appreciate the honesty. The people that cannot handle the truth will stay where they are. Those that get inspired will capitalize on the opportunity to do some real work and move forward. One thing is for sure, anything is possible through hard work and dedication.

I also address these misconceptions in Finding successful forex strategy

John
We don’t count on luck.

2 Likes
56

However you look at it, discipline on forex is one of the main aspects of successfull and profitable trading.

57

That’s for certain. I think the bigger question is how to actually achieve that discipline. Because it’s one thing to say one needs to be disciplined, it’s totally another to actually learn to be disciplined.