Edgar International

Beginner Questions
24

Bestwishes, Edgar is just part of a large organization scam. The group is actually bigger than you think, existed longer than you can imagine. If you read my post on page 1 of this thread, you’ll see a list of company names, which according to Hayden Best, could be operated by the same group of people. Just copy those link and paste it on your browser. Check out the “about us” and you’ll be surprised to find some companies were registered as early as 2002.

Some of the bigger names before Edgar was born in 2009, were Loyal Group Limited, Union Pacific Limited and others like Olympic International and etc. If you google them, you’ll see these names are mentioned in forums back in 2007 or earlier, by people in KL. The method of operation is exactly the same. They used the same software - itrader which can be downloaded from any of the list of websites mentioned. The topic we are discussing now, were exactly what they had back in 2007. After they got busted, they disappeared, then come back with a new company and sell the same story to a different state. Few years later from now, Edgar will become a history and people from other states will talk about the same topic but different company and may use this thread as reference.

Happy trading. I hope nobody gets hurt. Join the pyramid game at your own risk. Good luck!

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25

ytlpowr, I agree with you. Back to 2002 Top Star Development Co. Ltd. was make a big news in futures market in New Zealand. More than 200 accounts was involved in this scam. For me, there is no happy trading if scam or pyramid scheme involved in futures market. Futures is a financial derivative for some multinational to minimize their international business risk with hedge their portfolio. That is so professional for some one who trade in futures market. Before Edgar move into history, that is a sadden process for investor to go along with Edgar through this. The bubble must be break someday in this year. Thanks.

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26

Actually, when I join this threat I was keen in knowing what people involved have to share “in this trade”, the good & the bad “[B][U]experience[/U][/B]” concerning Forex. In fact, I was enthusiastic.

Can any of you enlighten me whether any of you [U]here[/U] were [U]actually[/U] involved in Forex trading?

What I do not understand is the ‘down to earth’ negative side to this. If this is so bad, how come there is no bad side of the story except speculated criticism?

Can I assume that all here have a day (or night) job. If you know your maths, you can’t loose by trading yourself or have someone else trade for you. Its just a matter of knowing the business and getting things right, maybe not the 1st time but eventually.

As in this threat, there will always be people talking of matters concerned. I found this threat & 1 other (“have someone trade for you”) while googling for fraught & scam topics, actually the most interesting yet but sorry to say “there was no real material either beneficial or a liability”.

I am tired, will leave this up to you…

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27

Dear Solai, something that I want to clarify with your post here again. I am believe some information from this forum already show how people care about their trade whether go with a scam or an actual futures trading professional group. That is totally different situation if you put money to someone intend to do something bad. I know financial derivative but can’t say a guru, however I know the importance of code of ethic. Think about Nick Leeson corrupt Barings Bank case, think about Hunt Brother corner silver price and brought to justice finally. Everyone who involved in futures market but never expect the counterpart is a scam company. At least you agree this with me right? Secondly, I already mention this is a bubble, this take time to break. Before the bubble break, everyone may still in happy and positive end. However some of the professional writers on this thread have show their criticism reasonable. The criticism is good (never consider a speculative) for everyone to judge the situation, or you already make big profit enough to ignore the potential problem. I wish Edgar will finally compliance with NZ regulation and so that may be the happy end for everyone who still have account with Edgar. That is not so difficult to compliace with law, I don’t think NZ will try to give up an market maker if Edgar is the one. Thirdly, according to 80 years of statistical CME report, most of the winner in futures is Hedger but not Scalpers or Speculators. I was researched with trading method of which someone used in Edgar, it is 100% Scalper and Speculator strategies. If you trade by yourself you will have more than 70% chance to lose your money. Finally, like you say beneficial and liability. I am very sure that at least you are the one who beneficial from Edgar. Anyway, I’m tired too, I already have received warning from Edgar as well. This will be my last message in this forum. Best wishes to everyone who sincerely and professionally trade in futures market. For your sake, I will leave this up to you. Thanks.

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28

Solai, I don’t quite get what you are trying to express there.

Nevertheless, I’m sure you have followed this THREAD since day 1, and you must have read a lot regarding Edgar. The info in this thread I believe is more than enough for a rookie to tell if he is comfortable with the business and its handling of clients trust money.

Forget about everything said here. Profit or no profit, fund manager is skillful or non-skillful, fake or genuine trading platform, regulated or non regulated, Cosca, Demac or Edgar, ASB, HSBC or Maybank, spot or futures trading, these are no longer important.

The most important is… [B]are you sure you (and your friends) can withdraw 100% of your money including the profit?[/B] Especially if the amount is big? Otherwise the profits you made are like [I]building castles in the air[/I]. More and more people now are having withdrawal “technical difficulties”. So… all the best and good luck!

I rest my case.

29

Hi everyone,

I have been reading this thread between apparently 2 different party, so might i give some neutral advice

I am pretty new to the forex arena but have done extensive research on companies and how the forex work maybe I can help tie this issue of Forex scam. I would agree with both camps. But let me put everything in its place.

  1. Who is edgar and the similar variant ?

I can safely tell you, the group behind Edgar and all the website would probably be either from Hong Kong or Malaysia, not Philippine like most suspect. Look at their earliest incarnation… you will get a bigger picture

  1. Are they licensed to trade at all ?

From the way the group is set-up. If they are I don’t believe the trading desk will be in NZ. Also unless you are a trader yourself, and know the in and out of the industry its difficult to fully understand how they work. But, apparently trading can be done paperless and through just a server, which i know they have. But just where do they execute the trade this i dont know, my gut feel is if they do it will be in Hong Kong.

  1. How do they work ?

I believe all the group share a similar server but different group name and have different account with automated ledger, maybe its linked to particular agent or country to allow these people to trade and start their business. That is why they are able to move the money to different bank. Unless they have a central server its would be near impossible to trace the money.

4.Are they safe to open account with ?

This is a million dollar question. All i can say is every company have risk. Lets put it this way, even licensed company can go bankrupt or do illegal transaction and investor also loss their money in the end. NO company is 100% safe lets not kid ourselves. Just look under forum review on different platform and you will find every one have good and bad comments.

Personally Edgar and the variant could," I say could ", because i have no real evidence that they maybe an illegal bookie taking bets. And hedging certain trader losses with other trader gain, Maybe they are their own forex banker, i dont know. But, in asia, people still bet with illegal bookie even though there are licenced betting house, why ? because they give better odds, and allow for different type of betting.

Seriously illegal bookie or licenced broking house, they are all the same. If anyone company goes belly-up you think your money is safe. Of course not !! If they belly up means they have no money !

Simply put - Licenced broking house - safer,maybe worse odds and margin, unlicenced broking house - riskier but better margin.

You don’t believe do some research on those companies that folded in the recent GFC. Ask those who put the money in the account if they got their money back. Someone i know, lost his 2million dollar account during the last GFC because the company folded.

Here are some of but a few so called reputable broking house that made the headlines and i could name more if you like :

New York-based Refco Inc
Saxo Bank
Sonray Management

  1. What do i think of forex industry ?

This industry is so new and so unregulated, its almost a cowboy town. As a player you need to access your risk. There is no 100% good company out there. You just need to be informed and understand your risk. If you think these companies are illegal bookie hedge your bet according to your risk level, i am sure they must have capital before they can be one. From my research they seem to be a big group. Not sure who is the head behind… but i will do more research. But i cannot say they are not actually trading because i have no solid proof. And only hearsay and circumstantial evidence.

Seriously, i have been looking for a good forex company but everyone seem to have bad review on them either not paying on time, bad customer service, trade doesn’t close, early margin call. Its really that bad.

Basically to me just 2 simple rules :

1- Trade within your means don’t over-invest ( Always take the assumption that a company can close anytime - if you can live with that lost you are ok )
2. Find out how the company are paying - are they paying when you withdraw ( Look if you place your bet at the illegal bookie - they still have to pay up dont they - so what is the problem ?)

Conclusion : This article is a very good read… maybe it will help everyone get a better idea how this industry is actually run…

Choosing the Right Forex Broker

30

Now that there was the negatives, neutral, how about something positive to get the show on the road?

31

Something positive? Well… maybe after they scam you out of whatever money you invest with them you’ll have learned a valuable lesson in life. Other than that I can’t think of a positive thing to say about companies like Edgar and all the mirror scam companies the same group has setup. Anybody who invests their money with Edgar and their like needs to have their heads examined. Or come talk to me - I’ve got some magic beans for sale.

32

Positive? I am new with Edgar, for about 6 weeks?? and don’t know much about Forex, but i just want to share with all of you, i have no problem to withdraw my money, i do not come across with problem like “techinical difficulties” issue and etc… not only myself, my siblings, friends around me all received fund on time with no problem… :slight_smile:

33

Sure, sure. The whole world and it’s mother is getting rich from the magnificent financial wizardry of Edgar International. The company that is doing so well that they don’t even bother investing in a .com address. The company that has only 1 director from the Philippines. The company that has mirror companies setup just like it all using the same webpage basically (with the same dodgy English) which is in no way suspicious at all. The company that won’t exist in about a year’s time leaving all the dupes who invested in it out of pocket. It’s such an obvious scam that it’s laughable… or would be except that real people are going to lose real money to these thieves.

34

Dear all

I have been following this topic on Edgar for some time and wish to contribute some thoughts. My wife has just invested in Edgar International after some long persuasion from her colleague. We have invested the minimum just to entertain her colleague as we believe the return is too good to be true.

After some due diligence research plus some info provided in this forum I wish to highlight some facts and my opinion.

[U]Dodgy facts[/U]
I do not deny some of the facts are indeed dubious, for instance

  • payments are to be made to 3rd party company’s bank account in a different country
  • the mirror companies setup are the same, sharing the same wordings and trading platform (itrader)
  • the mirror companies have only 1 director, they are either Franco Nero, Nazareno Mary Ann or Proceso Pablo which all share the same registered address in Philippines

[U]Claims by forumers and words of mouth[/U]
Thou we only join this less than a month ago, we were told that the fund manager who trade for us can deliver 100% winning streak record. Some claims from the forumers (both positive and negative):

Positives

  • you can make back and withdraw your capital within 3 months (100% return), 4th months profit onwards is considered passive income
  • if you do not withdraw your capital and let it reinvest, a capital of $300 can grow to $3000 within months.
  • withdrawals are prompt and on time

Negatives

[U]My opinion[/U]
There are people who are making handsome profit out of this investment. In view of this, it will be unfair to deter them from investing just because it is a suspected scam. However, we cannot lie to ourselves when the fact that the company’s setup, background and how it is operated is indeed questionable. As Malaysian Central bank (BNM) does not approve this, there will not be any authorities for us to lodge complain to if the company refuse payments.

So what now? Allow me to put my two cents in for the following group of people.

[B]For those who have not invested but interested[/B]
Do your own research and invest at your own risk. Like what bluedragon777 said. Always take the assumption that a company can close down anytime - if you can live with the potential 100% loss then go ahead.

[B]For those who have already invested[/B]
Trade within your means. Always assume the company can close anytime. If you wish to promote it to your friends, make sure you inform them of the risk. You would not want to be the only winner and all your friends lost money all because of your persistent persuasion should the company close down and agent runs away.

[B]For those who are not interested[/B]
Hope you guys enjoy the forum and continue to support babypips.

35

I found this slightly amusing but also pretty sad thread and couldn’t help going to this Edgar website to have a look.

Even I as a non-native English speaker I reacted to the poor spelling on their website. Read for instance the section on withdrawals… or the legals on opening an account.

This is just a guess, but an educated one I dare say after a couple of years of seeing many scam attempts in Forex. I’d say that there’s a 99.9% risk that this Edgar thing is a scam.

I’m basing that on the fact that they lack proper registration to trade in New Zealand :eek:, the run-around that deposits do until you have no idea what legal entity actually has it, their amateurish website, the fact that there are already complaints about “problems” with withdrawals… etc.
Also, it’s true that there are several of these websites, just like this edgar one, they all look the same and it’s obviously just a case of cut and paste by the scammer.

The list is available in an earlier post and here’s another link: Forex Justice - Top Star Development

It smells SCAM from a mile away! :eek:

Now if you’ve read this and still go ahead and invest your hard earned money with these clowns, well… don’t come crying here afterwards.

36

It is true that there are missing words as what ‘o990l6mh’ mentioned but I have not taken much notice of it, guested getting the trade on the way is more important.

There is an ‘Independent Forex Trading Service Reviews’ by Mark Larson concerning scam and other informative article @ ****://forex-systems-reviews.com/scam

‘linktrader’, Ofcourse banks do not approved forex trade, it has been since the beginning due to debasing money and triggering inflation. Google Chicago bank 1967, Milton Friedman, The Gold Exchange and the Bretton Woods Agreement; you should have a pretty good idea why.

Anyway, forex is a very high risk business. Statistics shows that 95% traders loss in the trade, a few are achievers and the rest??? This should explain why people gives you a :frowning: sadley.

My opinion about forex is very simple; everyone loss in the end.

It does not matter how good you are, you only need to foil once.

37

All these companies reminds me of a bunch of Russian brokers who refer to themselves as a "group of companies". A bunch related but supposedly separate brokers all under the same owner. In the russian scam, the client would open an account with one company, and after they use bucketshop tactics to make you lose, you get angry and switch to another company who has a seemingly attractive offer for you. You lose at the second company and switch again.... and so on but in reality, you are still trading with the same company as they bleed you dry.

Do try to forget trading with small unknown firms. Choose a well established company to trade with.

38

Amen to that!

39

Hi everyone,

Information if possible. I did some more research on all the website mentioned. and noticed that UPL is the earliest incarnation, of all the website. mentioned as scam.

I am interested to find out opinion on the itrader software. And for for all forex companies that uses any software. If a company promotes paperless and deskless trading. Where do they actually trade ?? I mean when we execute the trade, where do they actually deal ? I assume it would be with a specific bank or something.

Some detractors say these company dont actually trade while other post mention that the companies are scam because the agent or trader lost the money in the trading.

Thanks

40

I think this thread has attracted lots of attention including the king pin of the group. The groups of companies have reshuffled their directors. Earlier in this thread, it was mentioned most of the companies shared a common director, and all the companies’ directors use the same registered address in the Philippines.

Edgar has appointed a new director, and this time his registered address is different from the rest. Unlike the previous director, this guy has no directorship in any of the group of companies mentioned earlier. Obviously they are trying to disguise their identity by sending out a message that they are not related to any of those companies. I believe they may change the outlook of Edgar’s webpage soon.

If Solai’s statistic that 95% traders lose money in forex is correct, then Edgar’s fund manager must belong to the 5% winning traders because he can deliver 100% within 3 months not only for 1 client, but for all who opens an account with Edgar. Mind you, anyone knows who is this super trader? He must be worth a billion by now and what is he doing at Edgar managing accounts with minimum $300?

Seems only those people who have little or virtually no knowledge on forex are blindfolded by this Edgar scam. [B]Any experienced forex traders out there can affirm that Edgar is not a scam?[/B] Solai, you join this thread because you were enthusiastic to know more about Forex right? Let’s see if any experience traders (hopefully those who are senior members) can give you some positive feedback on Edgar.

41

Bluedragon777, first of all I think you should find out who is the software developer for itrader. For example, metatrader is developed by Metaquotes Software Corp. Usually when a broker buys a software from the developer, the software will be custom made to suit the broker and its operating system and its server.

Hence when you download metatrader software from a broker site, say FXCM, all the price feed comes from FXCM’s server. You can key in using your login and password from FXCM. However you can’t login using your user and password from FXPro, another broker that uses metatrader, because the software you downloaded was custom made for FXCM only.

As for itrader, if you right click the properties of the software link, the link is actually mp2.iexchange.bz/Trader/. If you go to the list of companies and right click the link to download the software, you’ll notice the download actually comes from the same server. What this means is, you can key in edgar’s user ID into the itrader, you can also key in UPL user ID too. Don’t believe? Try go to UPL or any of the companies’ website and download their itrader. Then key in using your edgar user ID. Presto you can now login to your edgar account via other company’s website. It’s as if you can key in your Maybank online user and password at Citibank’s website. If that happens you may want to check if your money is still in the bank first thing tomorrow morning.

You may be wondering how is this possible? Well one obvious reason is, itrader’s server is at mp2.iexchange. And what is this mp2.iexchange.bz? Try go to the main homepage and you’ll be told the website is forbidden for entry. One way to look at it is, the list of companies could be operated by the same group of people sharing the same server. This person developed the itrader and park it at mp2.iexchange server. This guy is just like the computer administrator with full access, and the customers are users with restrictive access. When you open an account with Edgar, after a few days, your agent will give you a username and password. This administrator can create and delete customers account and amend or manipulate or backdate the contracts. The itrader could be a demo account but uses real time trading platform and fake money. The person has full control of the system and this could explain why everytime when you wake up and login to the system, you see lots of winning trades and your money has doubled. This is especially when you are only allowed to login to your account in the morning and not other hours.

Just FYI, there are lots of forex demo software around. demoforextrading.net If you are good at computers, you can always re-engineer the software and show it to your friends. Lock the fake money option, only you the administrator can increase or decrease the fake money, and the other users have limited access. There you go…. You can start your own scam!

42

What was that, they can double your money every 3 months!:slight_smile:

The best traders working at financial institutions (highly educated, trained, experienced and well paid) wouldn’t be able to get those sort of numbers so anyone getting those sort of returns would be a supertrader, if not at least a very high risk one.

Heck but with profits like that the fund manager would be getting paid a lot of money, but they are able to pay his salary and commissions (they don’t do this without a commission) by dealing with accounts as small as $300. Wow! He really is a supertrader or very generous for donating his time and individually trading micro accounts.

So at the end of the day they have the greatest trader in the world working for them and he’s willing to do it for virtually nothing! I guess thats why they don’t need to spend any money on their website. I hope they have a second supertrader on hand though for when he isn’t feeling well or wants to take a vacation, afterall even a philanthropist supertrader needs a break now and then.

I’m sold. Even after reading dozens of books on trading, perusing hundreds of online articles on trading and the markets, trading myself and studying fraud cases in forensic journals and my professional studies that tell me that if something seems too good to be true then it probably is.

Surely there must be one super trader in the world, and the odds of him doing it for virtually nothing compared to what he could be earning as well can’t be that small, can they.

The odds would have to be at least better than having as Elvis crash landing in a UFO on top of the Loch Ness Monster? So theres some chance isn’t there? I mean surely there can only be one Bernie Madoff in the world, can’t there? Oh wait, what about all the ones in those forensic case studies and journals?. :rolleyes:

Count me in. :smiley: Not!

43

Hi ytlpowr,

Thanks for the information. I noticed as well itrader software was used for a large number of websites, which i believe are run by a single server. I am really curious as to where this server is executing the trade.

From my observation, the issue is not whatever a large number of companies have similar looking website. I would not be suprised, as they are using the same i trader software that they will have the similar looking website. Probably same software developer or web designer.

Its the company that is running the software and exchange server that is i suppose important. If the server is genuinely trading then the number of spawning website is redundant. because the real owner of the individual company might have bought the licence from the itrader owner. But its

The earliest user for the software which i can find are Top star development ( registered in London ) and UPL ( registered in NZ) both registered in 2005 and 2006.