Eight years as a day trader... many thousands GBPs gone

I kept this story secret for years - too ashamed to ever tell anyone what was going on. But then I realised that writing and sharing it with other traders would be a way of coming to terms with it and maybe it contains useful lessons for others too, so here it is

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Well thanks for posting.

That is a really nice blog post.

And sorry to hear about your bad experiences. That said: I don’t feel TOO bad for you because my overall initial losses (over many years since 2005) TOTALLY dwarf yours. But I know how it feels.

I’ve only been trading profitably for the last five years or so. That should give you an idea of how long it took me anyway to turn things around. I will admit that it’s been part time until about two months ago though i.e. due to circumstances I’ve had no choice but to now do this full time. And while this was my intention all along: I didn’t actually plan to be doing this right now. But I’m not sorry i.e. it actually feels good. You mentioned something about it just not “feeling right”. I know the feeling well. But for me anyway: I’d have to say to not confuse “feeling right” with “insecurity” i.e. it for sure doesn’t instill a feeling of well being and security as an occupation. But this too has a lot to do with the general perception that most have of the business of trading.

Anyway. Just thought I’d share given that you’ve been so open and honest and presented such a nice blog post,.

Let me close this by saying: there is no shame in walking away. And no shame in feeling defeated by it. It’s certainly not for everybody. And you will excel at things that others will not.

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Hi and thanks for your response. There is a part of me that would like to go back … all that wasted time learning how to do it. Plus by the end, I had developed my own system that actually worked. But then I remember how obsessive I get about it and that means that I don’t pay attention to other work which I am probably more suited to.

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Hey.

Must admit: sounds all too familiar.

But let me say this (and oddly enough I’ve been posting about this both publicly and privately in just the last two or three days):

Due to my losses back then I was FORCED to walk away for a few years and do something else. And for some or the other strange reason: when I came back to it all it was with the most overwhelming clarity that even as I sit here nowadays I’m still astounded. I mean: I LOVED this business and I too was TOTALLY obsessed with it and at the cost of all else and for many years. But in spite of the hardship that is caused for me (or that I ALLOWED it to cause for me): as I sit here today I cannot honestly tell you that it was all a waste. And it was with GREAT trepidation that I started trading again once I had some capital again. And in spite of being able to make profits overall: I kept on asking myself WHEN it was going to all implode again. But I dunno. Something is different this time around. And five years I reckon is long enough (I hope anyway) to be able to distinguish between pure luck and SOME skill or something learned. Oh nothing is perfect i.e. in my case and after ALL of this I managed to mess up last year on a Gold trade and BIG time. BUT at least THIS time around: I still closed the year overall in profit.

But (and this has been discussed a lot since my return here in May of this year): there is a BIG difference between doing this for a living and doing it for the hell of it and to just make some “fun money” (you know: that money that after you close something out at a profit you go and blow it on something nice or a party or dinner or something). When it’s paying the bills: it’s a whole new dimension that’s for sure.

But let me also say this:

Based purely on what I’ve read and your background: don’t be a stranger around these parts. I believe (gut feel) that you too will have loads to contribute here.

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Sorry about your loss.

R.I.P money.

It’s sad to lose money but its made me very sad you spent quite a bit on books, courses and CD’s and by the sounds of it, signals.

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Nice blog and interesting story. Sorry about your losses. How much in total did you spend / lose? If I’m reading it correctly, then it’s a ridiculously high figure (>100k).

Edit: replied to wrong post

No that’s right … more than 100K

That’s a very interesting story - very encouraging too

Puts the 2k I lost into perspective. Strangely enough, if you’d put that 100k in from the start and traded slow and steady, I think you would have done ok. It sounds like you were putting too much risk and overleveraged on your trades, so quick movements didn’t just cost you a little, but they were nearly wiping you out.

I don’t think the OP is looking for specifics or needs a rap on the knuckles i.e. there’s a far bigger and more important overall picture to this.

For what it’s worth @LeslyTarqTow: you have at least ONE decent broker on your list anyway i.e. ETX (which needless to say is my broker and has been for many years now) (although not for the feint of heart and under capitalized especially with the ESMA margin restrictions now in place which are indeed a real blessing in disguise contrary to popular belief). NOT that it changes anything of course. Just saying is all. Put another way: at least that was 500 GBP lost HONESTLY!!! LOL!!!

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Wow!!! That’s a lot of losses and a lot of paid-for education.
Kudos for sticking it out and best wishes for your future trades

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Fantasizing about your bright future as one of the rare trading success stories provides the perfect escape: every time you experience a bad feeling about your life you can immediately counter it with ‘… but when I succeed at trading, it will more than make up for my struggles/misfortunes/mistakes’. After all, once you become a profitable trader, you will be free to realise all your dreams.

very deep
thanx for sharing

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Morning.

For some reason or the other it actually never dawned on me to ask last night:

For what reason would somebody join a forum such as this specifically to post about their bad experiences in this business???

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Good question. I think the answer is because I am still really fascinated by trading mindset and why it is so difficult to succeed consistently: Is it really that difficult? Or is that a lot of people have unacknowledged conflicts about trading as a profession, or - like me - they are doing it for the reasons and trying to fix something from the past?

I have no idea whether my story will end up being similar to yours and I find my way back, or whether my real interest is on the mindset/psychology side - but either way, I’d like to keep in touch with the trading community.

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Fair enough.

Sorry. But if you look around these forums (just the posts in the last HOUR let alone ALL of them) one does tend to become rather skeptical.

My personal opinion then is this:

From what I gather you have access to some decent money. Assuming this is correct: you therefore don’t have to mess about with this spot FOREX lark (and from what I gather you’re pretty well versed in trading CFDs on Indices). Maybe give it another shot. I’m happy to help if I can. I’ve got two threads going here detailing two different trading systems and methodologies (one of which I’ve been trading for the last five years so is proven and consistent). The latter doesn’t take more than a half hour per day (per night) of your time. Take a look. May not be your cup of tea. But just a suggestion is all. But only for the well funded and that are happy to trade only Equities and Commodities (mainly the major Indices and in whatever form i.e. could be Futures, CFDs, ETFs, take your pick). The tried and tested one certainly allows a person to get on with other aspects of their life (matter of fact it’s actually PREFERABLE to NOT sit and nurse the thing during the day). My other one that actually started out as an experiment with pivots has actually become far more than that now. But that’s day trading and you will need to fork out some money to pay for decent charts and data (and for me there’s only ONE option and that’s TradeStation).

And ACTUALLY this is case in point:

Do you know that I was NEVER able to trade pivots intraday. NEVER. And this in spite of spending all those years reading about them and watching them and whatever else. But all of a sudden and as if by magic: I can trade them now with my eyes closed and in perfect peace and serenity. This goes back to what I was saying earlier on your thread: for some obscure reason or the other stuff that I just could not handle or grasp or follow or trade from 2005 to, say, 2012 (somewhere around there) just NOW makes total and utter sense. Even worse: I had the details of my core trading system back then. But thanks to some individuals that APPARENTLY backtested it with MT4 automation I never gave it a second thought because they told me it wasn’t profitable. And I listened. Well surprise surprise: it was like the blind leading the blind back then. How could I have been so stupid so as to trust OTHER new traders to backtest a trading system when in all probability they new less than I did at the time!!! I don’t have many regrets in life but for sure one of them is that I didn’t just knuckle down, do my own backtesting, and simply trade the darn thing. I can tell you right now that I’d be a very rich man today given the capital that I had at my disposal back then. But alright it is worth mentioning that they backtested the thing on FOREX pairs. It was never designed to trade FOREX i.e. specifically designed for trading ETFs. But like most new traders: back then ETFs and Equities and Commodities were the unknown and untouchable. More wrong I could not have been I’ll tell you.

Anyways. Whatever you decide to do I wish you well.

P.S.

You’re already half way there i.e. you have a spread betting account with ETX. So that’s already half the battle won. And really nothing more required to trade something like my core trading system. If you want to trade intraday e.g. pivots or scalping the S&P using tick fades well then you need TradeStation (all in all will cost around $150 per month with all the relevant data feeds but you can get away with just $99 per month which will at least give you the realtime NYSE $TICK). And if you REALLY want to get serious (my broker gonna kill me for this) then open an account with TradeStation Securities and you can trade PROPER Futures on the CME i.e. they’ve just made available MICRO contracts on the Dow, S&P, NASDAQ, and Russell 2000. And with just those four instruments: anybody can make a decent living.

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I know people who’ve lost that kind of money in under a year and they’re still at it.

Someone tried to replicate what I do on an asset class that moves like nobodies business - that’s what it will do to you.

Stick to what works for you, after you’ve tested it yourself. Not what someone else has taught you, or should I say, sold you.

Well. That is good advice and input of course. This being said though: from the OP’s blog I think it’s safe to say that to date nothing has worked.

Indeed, that’s why its such a shame.

8 years is a long time to invest with very little reward at the end of it.

You’d expect someone who has committed 8 years to anything to have something to show for it.

It could be a case of information overload from all these trading gurus.

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Honestly: you’ve hit the nail on the head. And I am 110% convinced it was my problem back then too. That and not treating this business with respect.

FRom what i have noticed in the forex biz
is that some losses are due to brokers manipulating spread and chasing stop losses
this biz is not for get rich quick unless a person is lucky and those are very few
if your mindset is to make a fortune with forex then stay away becoz you about to repeat the same mistake