You seem to be a little frustrated because you can’t control the newbies questions, answers, moderators or debate or if we looked a little further I suspect we would find you feel the same way about anything that doesn’t meet with your approval methods or interests. Oh sorry I forget you said newbies waste their time having e a method, use candles or indicators. Here’s something that all newbies, oldies I suspect most business men and including professional gamblers would like to know how; do you approach the forex?
Again I’m serious no disrespect intended. Forums are a place where all people on all levels learn by asking questions and making statements. But when you make statements like “How many times are we going to debate the same thing” Use common sense" “The mods should step in” " Isn’t it annoying" People who don’t understand that it’s not an offense to ask the same question even if it’s done over and over again and when you’re trying to learn somthing the only dumb question is the one you didn’t ask. I also suspect if anyone with an open mind, went back in all those threads which you label the same they would find new information in each one that would help them.
Here’s a gambling word for you “Tell” Thank you. I’ve been waiting. I knew you wouldn’t let me down. At some point you just had to it. Sparky Cheese this wat all people like you do when someone disagrees with them. They start with the name calling, if we were live you would be shouting.
ATTENTION ALL NEWBIES AND NOT SO NEW you see what they do, when you don’t agree. I could have called him an Opinated Loser, or A Hole or could even have said “Do the world a favor and never reproduce” but NO, Never go to their level, keep on asking questions, debating and searching for answers and every time you don’t under stand ask again.
I do agree with somthing he said, hopefully you’ll read info (his words, not mine) in this thread and make your decision based on facts.
Sorry I forgot you’re still here. Have yourself a nice day. Not really any point to me and you debating anymore. Best wishes and continued success.
You quote me out of context, you cherry pick statements to make it look like I’m being contradictory (when I’m clearly not), and then you take the high road when I am offended by your actions, and call you out on it.
I was perfectly willing to debate, or discuss this without anything being somewhat personal. And it was a civil discussion.
You changed the rules when YOU misquoted ME. I simply stated (post misquotes) that there was no use in continuing because I learned long ago that logic was lost on dairy products.
So, feel like you’ve been above board here all you want. But you weren’t.
I now clearly see why you have such a hard time admitting to yourself that trading is a gamble.
wise words…
how else could you develope from newbie into a successful trader without asking all this “annoying” questions that at the end make you improve your trading…
I quote the whole text but refer only to your last sentence…
he didn’t try to make you adopt his opinion of this topic, but you keep on trying really hard to make him think like you…is it really that hard for you to allow people having different opinions?
But a spade will still be a spade, even if you choose to call it a heart, club, or diamond.
It’s not subjective.
Besides, it’s not about getting anyone to “think like me”. If the subject was trading methods, or it was a discussion on current events, an opinion is justified. Hell, with a good argument, you might even change my mind.
But when regardless of your method, making money consists SOLELY of putting your cash on the line when you think the value of one currency will rise or fall against another, it’s simply a bet on which horse you think is fastest for the moment.
That is gambling/speculating/betting/wagering/trading or any other thesaurus synonym that describes monetary risk for the purpose of gain.
Gambling, for me, is something that depends on pure luck…going to the casino putting your money on red or black…the outcome is pure luck…
In trading you have more information on which you can base your decision…to find the “edge” all traders are talking about…of course, price still has to go in your direction, but it’s more predictable than gambling…
or isn’t the famous edge what all the pro-traders look for?
One difference springs to mind - business people take ‘calculated’ risks - these ‘calculations’ often are the difference between success or failure in business.
Obviously in a horse race the gambler has no control of risk/reward ratios or time risk calculation, once entered into the race he cannot change his anticipated goal, he wins or loses - his risk control is gone.
Many new traders view trades like a horse race, concepts of averaging in/out of trades, reducing/increasing risk, taking positions whilst anticipating fundamentals like possible tapering in Sept etc etc have little significance for the gambler - like the horse race he only sees a winner or a loser.
The speculator, on the other hand, gets little ‘buzz’ from the trade, it’s just another trade, calculated, thought about and executed with calculation, patience and good judgement - he seldom thinks in terms of winners and losers, his main concern is whether is judgments are correct or not.
Quote by Thomas F Woodlock 1866 - 1945 (former WSJ editor), re-quoted by Richard D Wyckoff in 1925:
"The average man who comes to Wall St comes to speculate …All he asks is to be told something good. That is not speculation, it is gambling; for speculation involves the use of intelligent foresight.
Most people use neither foresight or intelligence " end quote.
The next time you click the buy or sell button on your platform on any currency pair, at the point of entry the outcome of that transaction will be unknown.
You can conduct as much or as little pre entry analysis & research as you like, the fact remains you will not know for certain the outcome of that bet until you or the broker make a decision after entry, be it 5 seconds, 5 hours or 5 days.
Unless you can guarantee 100% at outset that bet will win then you’re engaging in a game of chance…in other words you’re gambling.
The difference between you lot & industry professionals is, the professionals know what they’re involved in & they are completely comfortable with that environment.
You can slap as much lipstick on that pig as you like but at the end of the day it’s still a pig.
For myself I find a great wisdom in this - I have found that my judgements are clouded when I click the buy or sell button, in other words enter at market.
My better trades have been those set with limits, but you are correct about the game of chance - again to quote Richard Wyckoff - “this greatest of all games”.
You don’t think a horse race pro has assessed risk, and calculated the possibilities? Watch pro poker. Those guys are always willing to fold, and lose their ante if they see they have a poor chance. Sports guys always watch the injured lists, and weather conditions. They look at team records against other teams that have attributes that may play to their advantage, or make them weaker. And they get no “buzz” from a win. It’s just another day at the office.
Not unlike someone assessing a recent bounce of price at a certain level. Or watching a 55 day moving average. Or god forbid seeing something is “oversold”, or “overbought”. (I HATE those terms. Positively useless) Or any other common technical methodology. Thrown in fundamentals about how an economy is performing, and you might as well be betting a sports team.
No different than assessing risk for a business. Good location? Traffic okay? Parking? Building condition? Lease costs competitive?
Do not confuse this with games of chance. Slot machines? Random chance. Coin flip? 50/50 odds. No edge there.
Blackjack? The player can win. Craps? You can game the table. Poker? It’s skill. Sports betting? It can be a profession. Horses? Yep, you can make a living there too. But those are all gambling. Forex? Yep, one can be a consistent winner. But even the consistent winners don’t know when they will lose. As Dancat so eloquently pointed out, that makes it a gamble too.
Oh, and one other thing. There’s a fellow on another site that has a system in which he used a coin flip to enter trades. He made money;)
So you make no difference between games with no edge and the ones with edge?
But then with your and Dancats definition of gambling everything, literally EVERTHING in life is gambling…as soon as you don’t know 100% the outcome then it’s gambling (basically what you say)…going to work every morning then is also gambling…can you be 100% sure that you still have your job on your way to work?
The simple fact is, regardless whether you employ an edge or not, or what type of entry criteria you choose (market, stop or limit order), at the point of entry the [B][U]outcome[/U][/B] of that trade or bet [B][U]is unknown.[/U][/B]
That defines it as a gamble, or a speculative punt, or a wager or a trade - just call it by whatever term makes you feel more comfortable.
No, you’ve missed my point - in a game of chance the gambler loses control of risk as soon as the game has started, the horse race, the roulette wheel etc.
The speculator, the business person, would not entertain such loss of control, he demands to be able to control risk until deal completion, he sees the loss of risk control as gambling.
The difference in gambling and speculating is a fine line, e.g the recent hedge fund purchase of Spanish property could be construed as either, but it is always an interesting thought.
BTW the notion of OB and OS came from traders like Wyckoff: “In the study of technical conditions… I found that the most important factor was the trend of the market and that the overbought or oversold condition of the market had the most to do with the immediate direction of the next swing”.
He goes on to explore his reasoning in a another book - way too long for a post here - but again it’s interesting.
But in a trade you can decide when and under what conditions you can exit the trade (loss, break even, win, and how much loss/win)…you can’t do that on a horse/sports bet…or is this also not difference enough?
