Forex pips vs Equities %'s

Beginner Questions
#1

I’ve read numerous times through the forum that people with Equities backgrounds really have a probelm with people talking about how many pips their system is producing. Since someone could be trading on a .10 cent pip or a 100 dollar pip. That we should be saying what % it is making of the entire account.

My thoughts on it are this, even in Equities just saying a mere %'s your system is producing can be misleading. Given you don’t know the person’s money management risk level.

Equities
Trader 1
has 10k account, he invest 1k into a 10 dollar stock giving him 100 shares sells at 11 dollars giving him a 1,100 dollar gross profit or 100 dollars net profit, 10% on what he risked or 1% on his total account.

Trader 2 (does the same but has a bigger account) 100k account
he buys at the same as the above 1k into 10 giving 100 shares yada
It will still be 10% on what he risked but it will only generate a mesely .10% for his total account

With that being said % can be misleading since you don’t know how the trader money management “risk level” is [U]you can’t merely use a % number and pretend your going to drop your entire nest egg on said %'s return[/U].
Just as misleading as you sorting the big mover and shakers of the industry screen and find the biggest % movers, only to see the screen sort all the 1 dollar stocks at top of the list, well that is true it did move 1000% today but I really don’t have the stomach for a 1 dollar stock. ;o) So if % on total account can be misleading, what about return on investment or amount risked, well that is true 11 from 10 price is 10% no matter how much money is slung at it. But at what level of risk did he go at to achieve that % on amount risked. Just because you make 10% on a penny stock on amount risked or 10% on a hundred dollars the mere gauge of % on amount risked is not painting the big picture either.

But it can give you idea how profitable said system might be, and you apply your money management and risk tolerance to it. I Don’t see the probelm with someone in Forex saying how many pips they generate with their system, it is the same scenario. You have to know their risk level and leverage amount to recreate exactly what is going on. But you can apply your MM to it and see if it will work for you. If it will stand up to “your” [I]Definition of what a profitable and/or successful system is.[/I]

But to be fair no one really ask on Equities a person’s money management when he shows he just squeezed 10% on a 10 dollar stock, making a whopping 1% on his total account. well that is a great system but I have 10 times your account so if I play your system it is only going to generate me
.10% for my account balance and not the 1% on yours. So what is my time worth to me since I was thinking I was going to get 1% for my account balance playing your system.

It has been my experience that you wont find out the other person’s account balance to see what his mm is looking like on Equities so you are left with only what his system generated on increment level 10 to 11 stock is 10% without putting MM in the equation, which is the same thing by saying how many pips you make apply your own MM to said pips to see if it is worth it to you.

One thing for Forex I see, that I don’t see in Equities as much, people are a little more forecoming with MM since it is crucial in not whiping out your account with a margin call.

So I think across the board, just saying what increment it moved in your system, is fair enough and let each trader apply their own MM and risk tolerance to it.
Just my observation and thoughts on it. ;o)

It has been said by me on Number Cruncher thread that you capture Forex returns on Equities Market without being margined all boils down to MM and Risk tolerance, You can turn Forex on even ground with the wrong leverage and % risked and basically be trading huge piles of cash in Forex, in what is basically a “pink sheet stock price, risk tolerance” at half or more increment for increment movement loss as seen in Equities. ;o)

Leverage and % of what is risked is all it is about.

Kangi

#2

Forex and Stocks are completely different.

I trade both.

I think you are trying to compare apples with oranges.

#3

Tymen

Thanks for your thoughts and input. ;o)

But I disagree with you on that, but there is no point in rehashing what I wrote on it in number crunchers thread, check the numbers over there if you can produce some numbers that show me otherwise “then” I can say it is different fruits. I’ve put up the numbers, where are your numbers saying they aren’t both apples. I have a hard time swallowing old cliche’s since their is so much garbage on the internet, show me the numbers.

Kangi

#4

To Kangi :

I actually [U]trade [/U]both of them, I do not just theorize about them.

I speak from simple practical experience - yes they are very different.

Forex is leveraged, stocks are not.
Forex can be shorted or longed, stocks can only go up.
Forex has rollovers, stocks do not.
With forex you are doing an exchange, with stocks you are buying a stake in a company.
Forex is trading with pairs, with stocks you are only trading a single entity - this fact alone is sufficient to make comparison of the two irrelevant.

You can hold on to your opinion if you so wish - I don’t care. It is late here, I have had a busy day on the sharemarket, and I am going to bed !!

#5

If you want to talk about comparing forex results and stock trading results in a meaningful way you have to use a common standard of measure. If you’re talking pips in forex then you’re talking points in stocks. Both are expressions of price movement. Neither deals at all with risk or % change.

As always, though, there are limits when talking in price change terms. A 100 pip move in EUR/USD is not the same as a 100 pip move in USD/JPY, just like a $1 move in GOOG is not the same as a $1 move in MSFT. You can size your positions to make those moves equate to the same $ amount, but doing so means a difference in % values, and vice versa.

When comparing trading results, it’s always best to speak in risk adjusted returns. That way everyone can view the performance figures on a level field and make adjustments based on their own risk preferences.

#6

Tymen
You are trying to point out difference in the two markets on more than increment for increment cash in cash out, your bringing to the table something that wasn’t even in the discussion much as shareholder was doing on number cruncher thread.

“Forex is leveraged, stocks are not.”

Stocks are leveraged man, I’m speaking from experience also!
What exactly is the amount you have in your account & the stock price
That is leverage my friend.

Account Margin = Account Balance
% risked = Stock Price
Margin Call = Zero Stock Price

Stocks do go down and do get delisted and sent back to the OTC
Forex your trading on 1 performance “between” a pair, Equities your trading on 1 performance as well.
Stocks split, Forex doesnt.
You can short a stock, if you do your not buying in to said company and if enough people short with you, you can take the ceo’s shares as he trys to make a $1.00 salary and demise his net worth, with that I don’t view that has buying a stake into the company, your profiting off the demise of it.
This was totally not were I wasn’t going with it, I don’t care to change your opinion either and it isn’t even late here, was merely bringing up % vs pips. Not the fundamental difference between the instruments being traded

Rhody
Your Post is more along the lines of what I was getting at on Number Crunchers, I have broke it down for comparision as you said increment (cent) for increment (pip) of the two being looked at. I’m not trying to piss anyone off, I’m here learning a new market as most newbies are. But the minute I start to compare increment for increment which makes more, then have to look at well maybe this one moves makes more per increment I have to also look at which increments move more and total that up to see where the bigger bang for my investment dollar is coming at. The minute I ask for people to look at the increment to increment of the two people get bent out of shape and start pointing out the risk assc with both markets and outside influences and don’t even bother to look at the numbers, which was my original question.

Every Instrument has its outside factors, if you didn’t have risk tolerance, you would have left your money gaining interest in the bank. But you had to do a comparison “Instrument in question’s” return vs “Bank’s interest” return. which alot of people have done that comparison without catching hell. But trying to compare Forex return (pip movement) vs Equities return (cent movement) people seem to have a probelm with, maybe in few years I will have a probelm with it also but at current stage 20 years in Equities and about 4 months in Forex I don’t see the probelm with comparing where the most money is made off a increment move since we all trading looking at increment moves on a Candlestick Chart.

Be cool for you to look over it since you seem to be grasping what I was getting at. But beyond the increment by increment comparison I can’t factor in news on forex or less than expected earnings per share on Equities. I’m not even trying to attempt that, I not attempting to figure out what moves the increment, only trying to figure out how much is made if said increment moves same on both markets X which increment moves more over any timeframe you wish to do comparison at.

What is my bottom line going to be, is what I’m getting at on the comparison.
What is my time worth to achieve that with said increment movement. Maybe I have this Thread in the wrong forum, if that is the case then I apologize.

Kangi

#7

Maybe I didn’t do a good job of it, but I was basically refuting this statement.

Points or Pips are simply not enough. If I say I made 100 points or 1000 pips, those figures might sound great, but they say nothing without having an associated risk figure. Did I risk 10, 100, 1000?

That’s why I said risk adjusted returns are the required medium of trader interchange - and why many traders talk in R terms, where R is a unit of risk. So if I say my system averages 3R everyone knows that for every unit of risk I take I return 3 times as much in profits.

#8

Your numbers are all wrong!

Equities
Trader 1
has 10k account, he invest 1k into a 10 dollar stock giving him 100 shares sells at 11 dollars giving him a 1,100 dollar gross profit or 100 dollars net profit, 10% on what he risked or 1% on his total account.

Trader 2 (does the same but has a bigger account) 100k account
he buys at the same as the above 1k into 10 giving 100 shares yada
It will still be 10% on what he risked but it will only generate a mesely .10% for his total account.

Trader 1 is risking 10% of his account and gaining 1% and making 10% on his investment.

But if Trader 2 wanted to make the same play with the same risk and reward then he would have to buy 10k and make 1k.

You really don’t need to know what someones balance on their account is to understand their stragiety. Nor should you ask or give your account balance on the internet. Since we are dealing in % r/r/ it doesn’t matter what size your account is.

As for Account Margin= Account Balance
That is also wrong also. In stocks you can have a margin account as in Forex. The difference between margin and balance is the amount you can play with. And with stocks you need a large account and have to get your brokers permission to have a margin account. With forex it is given right away. That also applies to shorting a stock, the broker doesn’t have to let you short a stock if he feels like you don’t know what you are doing.

Forex and stocks do share some words but that is about it.

#9

Bazooko

Please check the underlining sentence before the example, before you say my numbers are wrong. i.e. my next example will show different levels of risk and making the same trade.

My thoughts on it are this, even in Equities just saying a mere %'s your system is producing can be misleading. [U]Given you don’t know the person’s money management “risk level”.[/U]

Equities
Trader 1
has 10k account, he invest 1k into a 10 dollar stock giving him 100 shares sells at 11 dollars giving him a 1,100 dollar gross profit or 100 dollars net profit, [U]10% on what he risked or 1% on his total account[/U].

Trader 2 (does the same but has a bigger account) 100k account
he buys at the same as the above 1k into 10 giving 100 shares yada
It will still be 10% on what he risked but it will only generate a mesely .10% for his total account

[I]“Trader 1 is [U]risking 10% of his account[/U] and [U]gaining 1%[/U] and making 10% on his investment”[/I]

Your in disagreement with my numbers and are giving me back the same exact %'s I said in my example, so where is the beef? The only number I didn’t give was the % return on his investment that doesnt make my numbers wrong.

Trader 1
$10,000 Account Balance

$1,000.00 Amount he is willing to risk on the trade (10% risked on account)
$10.00 Purchase Stock Price

100 Shares
$11.00 Sell Stock Price

$1,100 Gross Profit
$1,000 Original amout he Risked

$100.00 Net Profit ( before taxes and commission) (1% on his account)

forgot to add (10% on his investment) which is from same 100 bucks
Just cause I forgot to say it doesn’t change the math or make my math wrong.

As for trader 2. You have totally blew through the comment to fast to realize I wasn’t trying to make the same risk/reward as trader 1, in the trader 2 example I was trying to show [U]the same trade going on but with different risk.[/U]

[I]“As for Account Margin= Account Balance
That is also wrong also. In stocks you can have a margin account as in Forex. The difference between margin and balance is the amount you can play with”[/I]

This statement I view as wrong, If you keep the increments at the same level to lose the same amount at the same pace or profit the same at the same pace. If you try to take on a new position in Forex you are changing the parameters of the comparison since you are dipping into your usable margin thus narrowing the gap to a margin call and trying to leave Equites at a “margin call” i.e. “stock price busted to zero” at a different proportion to make Forex seem better thus making Equities have a bigger level before “margin called” i.e. "stock price busted to zero"and Forex having more risk by reducing the increment level before margin call. Have to keep the comparison of increments at the same for profit and loss.

The difference between margin in forex is the same thing in Equities as leverage. Different Words Same Math, if you “leverage” without MARGIN!! said amount against said stock price that is equal to same increment gain or loss on Forex. You don’t have to get a margin account in Equities to be able to enjoy Leverage and Risk. Equities has built into the amount of the account and the risk of the stock price your willing to handle. That is Leverage and Risk without having to have a margin account.

[I]“Forex and stocks do share some words but that is about it.”[/I]
This statement just makes me smile. ;o)

I have given up on explaining Leverage and Risk, if you want to follow what was said look on number crunchers thread. Too much energy trying to explain it not worth the effort imo.

Wish everyone the best in their trades.
Kangi

#10

Sorry, but this is a totally incorrect statement, unless you’re referring to options trading, which I do not believe you are.

Leverage is the application of a small amount of money to control a larger amount. In the stock market that means a margin deposit and borrowing funds from your broker to purchase more stock than you could have with just your own money.

The specific mechanics in forex may be a bit different, but the exact same thing applies. A certain amount of money (margin) is put up against borrowed funds.

Leverage has nothing to do with price levels or the price riskiness of a given financial instrument.

#11

“[I][U][U]Leverage[/U] is the application of a small amount of money to control a larger amount[/U]. In the stock market [U]that means a margin deposit [/U]and borrowing funds from your broker [U]to purchase more stock than you could have with just your own money[/U].[/I]”

I take on two positions today, [U]USD/JPY[/U] at [U]$115.00[/U] true leverage 1:1 and take on [U]CMI[/U] at [U]$115.00 [/U](Neither is Borrowing Funds)

Forex: [U]USD/JPY True Leverage 1:1[/U]
Account:$100,000 margin required 0: Lot Size $100,000: Lots 1: Currency Buy: $115.00 Sell $115.01 Per Pip $8.70
In this scenerio one increment (pip) makes $8.70
Both bust or profit at the same speed.

Equities: [U]CMI True Leverage 1:1[/U]
Account:$100,000: Buy Price $115.00: Shares 870: Sell Price $115.01: Per Cent $8.70
In this scenerio one increment (cent) makes $8.70
Both bust or profit at the same speed.

Will take it into a “Leveraged” comparison. i.e. Forex borrowing funds and Equities not borrowing funds.

Forex: [U]USD/JPY True Leverage 5:1[/U]
Account:$100,000: risking 5%: deposit $5,000 Leverage 100: Controlling now:$500,000 Lot Size $100,000: Lots 5: Currency Buy: $115.00 Sell $115.01: Per Pip $8.70 x 5 Lots x 1 pip = $43.48 profit off of one pip Margin Call: 2,185 pips: leaving your $5,000 deposit on the contract as only thing for your troubles on this trade. $5,000 into $43.48 is 115 pips/increments that was left to go out of the $5,000, that will translate to $1.15 for the stop loss on a Equities trade or just let both go the full distance which digging into the required margin for the Contract is not allowed in Forex

Equities: [U]AMR True leverage is 1:1[/U]
Not borrowing anything from anyone. I take a position on [U]AMR[/U] based soley on the amount a pip will make in the Forex position on same increment movement in AMR with matching same risk in the margin call as a stop loss would be in AMR and not taking into account outside factors only what will the increment make.
Account:$100,000: Buy Price $23.00: Shares 4,348: Sell Price $23.01: Shares 4,348 X .01 = Per Cent $43.48 profit off of one cent. You sell at 115 increments x 43.48 = $5,000 115 increments x .01 an increment move is $1.15 which is the stop loss price to leave you on even ground with $5,000.20 left for your troubles since the Forex trade busted before you. Or let the trade continue which makes comparsion unfair to forex and see what might possibly happen in the next $1.15. Buy price $23.00 - stop loss $1.15 = $21.85 or 2,185 increments before the stop loss is reached which is the same 2,185 for the margin call in USD/JPY

The odds of either one of this instruments getting margin call or stop loss hit is highly unlikely but to keep the comparison the same will act like we are having brass balls all the way to the bottomless pit to keep it even.

My observation there has to be some kind of leverage going on between your account balance and the price of the stock to have the same rewards and the same stops. There has to be some kind of leverage going on between Account Balance & the stock price, Because in the above example I didnt borrow a single red cent from anyone. At same time you can not take another position with your usuable margin in Forex cause you will change the downside risk you can withstand in Forex which ups the risk level vs the Equity Trade.

If it is showing equal movement up and down per increment.
Which moves more. If you want to nullify outside factors that force each instrument to move an increment, then we will only say in the trade for xxx number of increments for each, What effects the movement of increment is outside the scope of what is being discussed, only thing left to factor would be which moves more correct?

USD/JPY
From High to Low each day Total possible in ungodly scenerio, as of 9/10/2007
Pips movement and timeframe
Weekly 574 pips ( 5 daily bars)
Monthly 2,305 pips (20 daily bars)
Quarterly 7,079 pips (60 daily bars)
Annually 17,451 pips (200 daily bars)
Annually 21,750 pips (260 daily bars)
Annually 29,524 pips (365 daily bars) not going to argue what constitutes a year left both same

AMR
From High to Low each day Total possible in ungodly scenerio, as of 9/10/2007
Cents movement and timeframe
Weekly 483 cents ( 5 daily bars)
Monthly 2,219 cents ( 20 daily bars)
Quarterly 6,646 cents ( 60 daily bars)
Annually 23,747 cents (200 daily bars)
Annually 29,892 cents (260 daily bars)
Annually 41,261 cents (365 daily bars) not going to argue what constitutes a year left both same.

If Equities is producing same $43.48 per increment and I didn’t borrow funds and will have the same $5,000 left after the other gets margined.

AMR which I know nothing about, picked soley off price for this example, beginning of this year and for the year total has stomped USD/JPY ass, but the Quarter and onward it has lost its steam.

If I can’t use the terminology of Leverage as you said in the above quote cause that refers to borrowing money, then what do I call it. When it produces the same results in an unmargined environment. I’m calling it Leveraging your account balance against said stock price. Maybe there is another word for it. But the math is holding up regardless of what the word is that the masses want to use to describe what is taking place above.

Equities (AMR) 41,261 cents
Forex (USD/JPY) 29,524 pips

Difference 11,737 increments or 39.75% more action by increment on Equity on a 365 daily bar comparison of the daily increments from high to low.

I don’t know how to explain it more than this, honestly! If I’m being nailed on my use of terminology then I can be big enough and say that maybe I’m not using the correct terms that everyone is use to hearing.

[I]"[U]Leverage has nothing to do with price[/U] levels or the price [U]riskiness of a given financial instrument[/U]."[/I]

I have five books that I can quote the title of the books and the page number plus dig out in baby pip’s school that says “Leverage is a double edged sword” You can amplify your returns, at same time destroy your account. it adds riskiness to the financial instrument if it amplifies the gains or losses. If Im on par with the returns of a 5:1 leverage Forex without borrowing funds to match that return would it not be safe to assume that I’m “leveraging or insert different terminology here” my own money against a “stock price”? Correct?

I don’t feel like I’m theorizing about it as Tymen put it so bluntly, this can be an actual legit trade. Based on simple practical math. You would of course setup a stop loss and take profit on both. But both would be on equal footing on amounts made per increment movement. If both are generating the same profit and losses. You would set the stop loss and take profit to match each other on both instruments in this trade that could have happened today. Apply your own version of what decent MM is. And you didn’t borrow a red cent from anyone. If the math holds up on both trades, then it makes you wonder about the “so called money your borrowing” in forex without the credit checks in a day and age as we live in today! I’ve showed examples throughout the thread of True Leverage from high of 500:1 100:1 5:1 1:1 on Forex and a equal profit and loss being seen on Equites without borrowing money to amplify the profit to match Forex.

I can make the comparison on $500 in Forex borrowing funds and $500 in Equities and not borrowing funds. The account starting balance doesn’t have to be 100k like my examples. This can be done on “any” starting account balance.

I have not made a comparsion based on fundamental differences between the to instruments being compared, only on the increment reward on your bottom line per increment move.

Right now, If I’m on the wrong path, I’m not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel yet. ;o)
Kangi

#12

That last post was so long I lost track of where you were going. Sorry not trying to be mean , but it helps to keep it short.

You seem to be caught up on terms like leverage and margin. I say forget about it all! It really doesnt matter. You can compair any two different types of trading markets and come up with the same numbers.

“Leverage has nothing to do with price levels or the price riskiness of a given financial instrument.”

This is correct Leverage has nothing to do with PRICE LEVELS. Leverage has to do with how much you can trade. ie. a 100:1 account you can trade 1 lot. a 400:1 account you can trade 4 lots. However the 2nd part of the sectance is wrong. Leverage has everything to do with riskiness.

As far as Margin that is just the amount that you can borrow. With stocks you have to have a large account befor you can get leverage. That is the point I was making.

#13

bazooko

I guess to keep it short like you said, plus I’m getting tired of typing. ;o)
Thanks for your input

I’ll just say that example of a 5:1 forex leveraged and the 1:1 equities in example below is all I really need to see to know I can make same money not being margined. So it would show me “xxxx word” against a stock price does have impact on the rewards. Basically all I was getting at as well, regardless of account size.

Kangi

#14

To Kangi :

I guess to keep it short like you said, plus I’m getting tired of typing

And so you should : :mad:

Maybe I have this Thread in the wrong forum

You do : :mad:

I would submit that the purpose of this forum is to help one another, not pontificate great volumes of philosophical ******.

Rhodytrader and Bazooko have corrected you a number of times. They have very extensive knowlege and have been on this forum a long time. I have the highest repect for the both of them.

You would do well to do the same. :wink:

To try to wrap up this thread, I would like to say just a few simple things which everyone on this forum can understand.

When you buy a house/land it increases in value. 40 years down the track, you can pass it off to your grandkids as an inheritance at much higher value than you bought it for. You have made a valuable investment.

When you buy a stock it increases in value. 40 years down the track you are a millionare (or rich), you can pass it off to your grandkids as an inheritance.
You have made a valuable investment.

When you buy a position in forex it increases in value ???

Does it ?

After 40 years ?? You were probably margin called in the 1st 6 months !!:eek:

With stocks and property you have invested in something. But forex is a zero sum game - your gain is someone else’s loss. Same with gambling. In these you are not adding to the Universe - just shifting stuff around. There is no productivity.

What forex investment could you give to your grandkids in 40 years? A margin call? Nothing?

So, to finish, according to Rhodytrader’s risk formula, which would you consider to have the best risk/reward potential…

Property, stocks or merely forex ?

I think that says it all.

#15

tymen

I wont respond since your acting like a child on this and the other thread.
There is nothing philosophical about rhody showing me trade numbers to make a point and for me to show and actual trade that could have happened today.

If your only rant is on the length of a post and it bores you, then don’t read it.
I tried to keep post small then without enough information, I was told that I’m wrong and way off base. What am I left to do but through up numbers and show what or where I’m coming from.

I said in beginning I was learning Forex which is the post here. but from your first post to your last you have been straight up deregotory to me. which is uncalled for man your really are showing you have about zero class

I don’t see one negative comment from rhody who you respect and he gave me the most detail explaination as his thinking why I’m wrong. and didn’t merely say apples oranges get over it.

kangi

#16

Now it is you who has it wrong in that you seem to have missed that I was making a very specific statement.

The price riskiness of a given financial instrument has everything to do with the way that instrument (forex pair, stock, etc.) moves in terms of price. Leverage isn’t involved in the equation at all.

What you are referring to when linking leverage and riskiness is the riskiness of a position. Obviously, since leverage allows you to make a position larger than would otherwise be the case, it allows you to increase the risk of a given position.

#17

You cannot equate a $0.01 move in a $115 stock to the same size move in a $23 stock. It’s not a question of leverage, but rather one of relative price changes that you are bringing up. A one penny move on CMI is a 0.0087% price change. The same move on AMR is a 0.043% price change, five times as much. It’s not a question of leverage because your position size is the same.

This isn’t as easy to see with penny price changes, but what you need to do is look at the odds of similar moves. Let’s bump the price changes up to $10 for each stock. For CMI that’s about an 8.7% change, while for AMR it’s a 43.5% change. Which do you think is more likely to happen within equivalent periods of time? The smaller move, right?

[I]"[U]Leverage has nothing to do with price[/U] levels or the price [U]riskiness of a given financial instrument[/U]."[/I]

I have five books that I can quote the title of the books and the page number plus dig out in baby pip’s school that says “Leverage is a double edged sword” You can amplify your returns, at same time destroy your account. it adds riskiness to the financial instrument if it amplifies the gains or losses.

As I said in my response to bazooko, I was talking about price changes not account value changes. Leverage doesn’t change price movements in any way shape or form. The odds of IBM dropping $20 are the same whether I’m leveraged at 100:1 or unleveraged. That is the price riskiness of a given financial instrument. Leverage merely amplifies the effects of those movements on one’s account value.

#18

Rhody

Thanks for all your great post Rhody, I’m withdrawing from this Forum.

Will keep in mind the odds of a movement on one leverage comparison to another. My idea was to do something like what was below the 1:1 5:1 example that showed the actual movement and somehow put it on a screen. Of different instruments that I find attractive, and just adjust the trade in whichever instrument accordingily.

kangi

#19

As to the statement from tymen about having to be locked into a 40 year timeframe on reasons of only to have something to give to your kids. and only other reason cause he doesn’t like the length or the topic of the thread.

Most people can only make the min payment each month a $100,000 dollar house appreciates what 50% in 40 years if your lucky and in right area that will value a house that old at that appreciation, at the cost of $300,000 dollars on the loan at compounding interest over course of 30 years and taking into account appreciation on the house, Your in the hole by $150,000 but you can brag about the appreciation to your kids on what the sale price at 50% gain was and not the actual cost behind it 50% loss.

You would have been better off investing 200k interest yourself and handing them what that makes in 40 years and let them buy a modern house ten fold and then appreciate from that point in their lives.

To make a statement that you can’t grow wealth in Forex and buy or use the money into other forms of investments or possessions is retarded man. If I’m talking about increment moves obviously I’m talking on a short term daytrader level.

As for longterm on Forex, depends on the size of your account if you can trade that 40 year timeframe, if you read online which you probably haven’t since you don’t have a tolerance beyond two sentences. you will notice Warren Buffett has been shorting the Dollar for over half a decade now. And I have more respect for his strategy of what gauges success than yours!

[I]“Property, stocks or merely forex ? - Tymen”[/I]

Well to keep up with the abstract force fed chinese proverbs that you like to dish out in 8 of the 10 post you comment on. real estate investment is blue, stocks are purple, forex is orange and a Bank account interest is red. [U]If they all produce green then that alone warrants on a financial forum a discussion to which color has the path of least resistance. And how to screen when that flow changes color.[/U] Let me get eye level with you, and dish a proverb back to you. That is the fishing pole, not the fish!

Respect is given in a classroom where a teacher has no peers, but amongst your peers respect is earned, either bring something to the discussion and leave the proverbs at the door when you enter or don’t particpate in the discussion. I’m not the coward pointing at who is the powerhouse people with knowledge on the discussion, to try and get support, to find strength before I step on someones ideas with only proverbs. Experience + Education will not ever always equate to being knowledgeable. So like I said in the first post to you, show some math as to your viewpoints, stick your neck out there and have other people show you that your idealogy might be wrong and learn something. Because once you feel like you know everything teacher, you have lost the battle.

The method of my madness is to have the letters from your computer screen, flow into your eyeballs so that your brain can feel the weight of the words that are forming inside your head. I have seen your kind before as well, you cloud you experience level with nonsense and when someone ask for some proof before they will change their opinion to align with yours, you back into a corner and point at who I should be listening to, at who i should be respecting or just point in the other direction to distract the attention off you showing something to back it up. My intention is not to sing a lullaby but to point out, people that repeatly talk down to other people usually get embarrassed when they get called out on the topic and cant back anything up, and leave the place they use to enjoy.

Sprinkled with a little bit of humor
And yes I do have experience, I have been trading on the stock market since 1977 with a nest egg in six figures. I have seen my portfolio drop by 45% on careless risk and thinking I knew enough to take on excess risk. I have had to stare at my wife and explain I lost that much, I have walked a mile in those shoes. I have weathered more corrections than you have probably popped a trendline on. But you didn’t see me bringing my level experience into any argument nor did Rhody or Bazooko only you have brought that up on the thread and other threads as you spin a few phallables and proverbs, because it is irrevelant to the discussion that was on the thread, I was here mainly for the only reason to gauge a new market when compared to something that I’m already comfortable with. With people that are already knowledgeable in this market, if you did have anything to bring to the table in the discussion with the level of experience you claim to have, you f’d it up by acting the age of the children you use to teach. and clouding the topic with chinese proverbs that served no purpose except trying to blow your digital chest outwards. I don’t know what your purpose here is, mine isn’t to dish proverbs, mine is to increase my bottom line and not waste time with nonsense, can’t increase your bottom line with proverbs.

If you dont find this humorous, then just imagine the grin on my face as I was pushing the send button. ;o)

And that really wraps it up

#20

Sorrry Rhody I miss understood you. Yea we are on the same page. Leverage has nothing to do with price movement only the risk reward,