Forex Robot World Cup

Trading Systems Expert Advisors and Automated Trading
126

Ya know my gut feeling is telling me you work, support or promote (as an affiliate probbaly) the Forex World Cup…because of your reply, bascially supporting their claims when as far as i know you have no reason to trust them in the first place.

“my friends computer acts strange” means the a few things like where his firewall was screaming Dos , on top of that his memory usage went up quite a bit, also on top of that his computer slowed to a crawl.

His PC was almost perfect before he installed the EA’s. After I removed his EA’s and cleaned his computer with my tools it was back to how it was…without a prblem.

PS: I have spent the better part of two decades in IT support, network support and so on…so i know my stuff.

127

Not a huge fan of EAs written by someone other than
myself but this type of comment needs to be checked
as well. Why? Because every single EA comes with
adjustable parameters. And if you have any experience
with EAs and trading, you would know how to adjust
the parameters rather than just blindly accept the
default settings. You do realize that the parameters
can be adjusted do you not? Including TP and SL
that will affect the risk/reward ratio that you balk at.

128

That is an excelent point and i have seen plently of people dont even take the time to check these parameters, and do blindly just accept the default setting…

Personally 2 would want 1:2 (Risk:Reward) ratio as a minimum.

129

Sounds a bit harsh Dadulus, to me, it looks like CodeMeister started this thread with the intention of getting at the truth. In my opinion, I think his assessments have been fair. We’re not paid reporters, and don’t have the resources to dig up hard to find facts, so some of our conversation consists of speculation. I for one, can accept that.

I’m setup as an affiliate of FRWC, though I didn’t get the impression that CodeMeister is. I won’t be actively promoting the product unless my testing on both demo and live accounts proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the robot works.

I have my doubts. But I’ve learned that my skepticism has never served to actually move me FORWARD towards my goals. Every significant step forward has required that I suspend my disbelief and try something new. Even if it means getting a little mud on my face.

Dadulus, wow, this could be a big problem. Is anyone else having performance issues? I haven’t seen a noticeable performance impact. I’ve run a virus scan, and haven’t come up with anything. However, FRWC’s documentation mentioned that their software may set off the virus alarm because of how it handles licensing or something. Here’s what it says on page 12 of the general installation documentation:

[I]“Please be aware that you might receive a warning from your Anti-Virus system that the fm4setup file contains a virus – this is not the case at all and any anti-virus warnings should be ignored. The MetaTrader 4 system includes protection code to prevent hackers from reverse-engineering the software . This protection code looks “virus-like” to some Anti-Virus systems which are unable to determine the actual difference.”[/I]

Also, I’m not sure the virus scanning product I use is intelligent enough to spot [I]potential [/I]threats. I think it only checks for known virus signatures.

I’ve looked at all running processes, and don’t see any that are consuming CPU or memory resources abnormally. Dadulus, would you share more specifics on how we can detect the malicious files/processes? Filenames or process names would be super helpful.

Thanks for sharing your expertise.

130

Yeah, ok good point maybe i was a bit harsh…I guess i am just cynical.

for clarity purposes i am answering the other question about the virus warning(s) here, rather than at the bottom of the post:

I attempted to post proof in relation to the claim, but the mods are infraction happy. PM me and i will gladly give the link to anyone who wants it.

Kinda off topic but if any mods are reading this, you could consider allowing a link that is relevant to the topic discussed. As it stands now i and other people cannot back up claims because he isnt allowed qoute website references until he has 50 posts !! Since i am cynical i bet if the website reference (to whatever was being discussed0 was on the babypips domain i suppose since i havent got 50 posts yet i would still get an infraction? Its not like i am trying to promote anything you know…

As for the request about the “share more specifics on how we can detect the malicious files/processes? Filenames or process names would be super helpful” , yes i will but i would like some time (a few days at the most) to get that together for you (as in writing it properly rather than thowing a bunch of stuff around).

132

Glad you agree with me. I don’t think many others do. They just look at that equity curve and say give me more, more, more.

Not sure if you noticed the lot sizes of HiRider are also inappropriate. For single trades fine, but when it fires off a cluster of trades with high SL it puts a huge chunk of the account at risk at once. I have seen from 20-50%.

133

Na, I am just somebody who is evaluating the robots and trying to find out as much as I can. If you had read most of my postings you should have known that.

The description of the behaviour of your friend’s computer sounds like a virus, but I have seen dozens of complaints on many forums about Fusion V and that is the first time anybody mentioned a virus.

What did FRWC user support say? There still is the possibility of refund if he acts promptly.

134

Hello to all. IMHO the Fusion expert advisor from FRWC is a total scam. First,
do a look up for the FRWC support phone number. You will find that it is a cell phone #. What does that tell you?? Does a fully staffed office type support team answer calls on a cell phone? OF COURSE NOT !
And if you do a little math you will find (for an example) that the EUR/USD trades would need close to a 95% win ratio just to break even !!
I ask ( BEG ) everyone who has purchased this piece of crap, scam robot from the scam vendor, Forex Robot World Cup, to DEMAND an immediate refund by calling Plimus @ 1 866 312 7733 and giving them your Plimus reference #
Please help spread the word. Forex World Cup Fusion Expert Advisor is an absolute scam designed to TAKE YOUR MONEY !!

Need I say more ???

135

This is a completely bizarre and totally incorrect argument, but it illustrates perfectly the strategy that the designers of these systems employ. You wouldnt think that people would not fall for it, but they do, and as long as they do, EA designers would be crazy not to take advantage.

Providing adjustable parametes means that the users of a product will obtain a distribution of results, by random chance, some of those users will get good results, irrespective of the parameter settings. Good news tends to travel faster than bad, and so the approach at least results in genuine testimonials from a small minority experiencing positive returns.

Mechanical strategies require a synergistic interaction between all of their component elements, stops, targets, trading hours etc cannot simply be modified independant of the experts trade logic. If a particular entry signal requires a particular stop level, then increasing or reducing that level is detrimental to the EA’s long term perfomance. You are simply not in a position to modify anything unless you understand the basis on which these parameters are designed.

The product should perform as advertised with default settings, in fact there’s a reasonable argument that the product should have no user defined settings at all.

The inclusion of user parameters is simply a con trick. It gives suppliers a get out clause, those who alter parameter settings and lose are told they should have used the defaults, those who use defaults and lose are advised to pay an extra few hundred bucks a month and subscribe to the latest “optimised” settings.

We even have a secondary market in affliates selling their “optimised” settings.

136

[QUOTE=simbafx;174872]This is a completely bizarre and totally incorrect argument, but it illustrates perfectly the strategy that the designers of these systems employ

SIMBAFX
Did you read the message directly above yours or are you TOTALLY
"out in space" ???/

138

"Its a SCAM…

Plimus Inc Complaints - No product received

Posted: 2008-09-03 by Ronell
No product received
Company information:
Plimus Inc
South Africa
megaadmin.co.za

I have purchased a so called Affiliate Program with this company, this program allows you full access to their network base, data capturing facilities. Where one enters in data for other online companies and get paid per form that you fill in. This program has promised to be success full.

I have wire transferred money into the companies account on the 25 July 2008. They sent me a corresponding email saying that it takes at least 15-21 days for a wire transfer to clear into their account. It has been longer that a month now, and they still have not confirmed receipt of the funds, although I have proven documents from my bank, to say that I have transferred the money into the account they have indicated me to.

I have not received confirmation from them and they do not reply to my emails, and I still have no product.

Please help.

Ronell Groenewald

* Plimus is an online e-Commerce provider since 2001, and much like any other online platform, Plimus is exposed to fraud. Some people who are victims to fraud accuse Plimus, yet our goals reflect otherwise.
* Plimus has, over its 8-year history, developed a sophisticated, self-learning, fraud protection system. Combining the power of automated fraud detection, and the personal care of live fraud experts and monitors. With this Plimus is able to try and prevent fraud from impacting your business. To learn more about our company please visit our website at Plimus - Sell Online, Web Ecommerce, Online Shopping Software

From Tiffany:

Plimus is a fraudulent company making money on both customers and software vendors.

I was quite happy with Plimus for nearly 1 year. But suddenly, one day ago, they sent us an email telling that our product and my business are not in keeping with their Business Model and the money will be HELD INDEFINITELY. There was no more details why the account was suspended.

We have software patents and legal corporate document to run our business. I dont know why they dispatched the horrible email and now all the money we have accumulated this month is in their pocket. We have been making more than $30,000 each month. There is no way to get our money. It was a terrible day.

Once again, and I confirm that Plimus is 100% scam. People, stay away from this company. I have been telling all other software vendors I know about this TRUE STORY."

WHY DOESN’T THE CFTC REGULATE SOME OF THIS CRAP INSTEAD OF WORRYING ABOUT 10:1 MARGIN HESUS FREAKIN CHRISTMAS

139

[b]is anyone paying attention to the last few posts
if you bought the forex world cup expert advisor
fusion you have been ripped off

it’s a scam !!! Even the payment processor, plimus, is a scam !!
They are phony ! Get it ??? They are being brought down by the
fed’s
get it ???/

140

I am posting this numerous times because a Google search for Fusion expert advisor by Forex World Cup Robot will reveal how big a scam this is.
It’s HUGE and people will end up in prison.
Read the last few posts. FUSION EA is a SCAM. Plimus is a SCAM.

Good luck on trying to get your money back until the Fed finally gets
their head out…

141

Yes its a scam. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to have worked that one out. I was simply pointing out the typical tricks that these guys play.

142

@Dadulus - No pressure dude, you’re doing US a big favor by providing it. I’m PM’ing you for the link you spoke of. Thanks a lot!

143

My comments are below the quote…

@SimbaFX - Well articulated point. I’ve seen secondary markets popup around FAP Turbo & Megadroid for example first hand. That behavior just seems kinda “bottom feeder-ish” to me. Which casts a shadow on those product developers. Experienced forex robot traders might feel differently.

From a consumers perspective, I expected the default settings for FusionV to be exactly what they used to achieve that huge return of 350+%. I’m new to forex, and really just expected for the robot to perform as advertised. All this stuff about “allowing traders to adjust their risk settings to their liking” sounds reasonable enough, but it doesn’t help me as a buyer get the result that I paid for. This is obviously an over-simplification, and I concede that I was/am not their target market, which I believe to have been experienced forex traders, specifically people who have tried forex robots in the past and felt ripped off.

You hit the nail on the head when you said, “The product should perform as advertised with default settings”.

Having said all this though, I feel compelled to balance my complaints by reporting that my demo account running FusionV has a net profit of $170.48, a net profit of 465.1 pips (if my spreadsheet formulas are correct).

The big question for me is, what will I have to risk in equity in order to achieve a profit worth fussing with? If the robot is only capable of winning about $300 on a $1000 account per month, it’s really not worth my time. For me, the minimum profit per month worth messing with would be about $5000. I don’t know much about forex yet, but I do understand that I would have to trade much higher lot sizes to get higher returns. By doing so, I see that I would have to have a exponential increase in the amount of investment capital. I’m not very good at math, but rough calculations in my head point to the idea that it probably just wouldn’t be worth it. If I have to risk $100,000 in order to get $5000 a month in return, with a high probabilty that my whole account could be wiped out in a day… it just doesn’t seem worth it.

Am I oversimplifying things here?

Is personal forex trading just a nice (addictive) hobby? Or can people generate wealth/passive income this way? Is my perspective skewed by the fact that my only experience of forex is with these robots?

Sorry for rambling, but you seemed like a good person to ask Simba. Thanks in advance for your advice.

144

@TradeRunner - Whoa dude, this series of posts is your first in this thread, and you are coming across (to me) as pretty emotional. I bet there’s some truth in what you’re saying, but it’s being over-shadowed by your zeal.

As I understand it, Plimus is the payment processor and affiliate management system that FRWC chose to use. If your point is that Plimus is a disreputable merchant or service provider, and that by association, so is FRWC… then you may have a valid point, if there’s legitimate proof of fraud.

When I enrolled in the FRWC’s affiliate program, I looked around in the Plimus offer/product catalogue. I saw a lot of products in there that looked rather unscrupulous (in my opinion), but I also saw a few software developers in there selling products that have trusted brand names that I recognized such as: Namco Games & DataStor. Namco games for example, created the PacMan video game.

About the cell phone # stuff, I personally ran a business for several years where I used my cell phone # as the primary number. However, I had it setup so that if I didn’t pick up after 4 rings, it would forward the call to my team of virtual assistants. This reduced my overhead while keeping my accessible to customers, which they liked. I’m not saying that is what FRWC is doing, however, I just wanted to illustrate by example that the cell phone thing doesn’t strike me as compelling evidence that they are running a scam.

Having said all that, I do agree that there are a lot of signs pointing to the idea that the FRWC has something to hide. But there is no way of knowing whether that is because they want to avoid abusive customers, or if they are untrusting of governement regulatory agencies like the FTC (could you blame them for that?), or if they are just snake oil salesmen waiting for their big payday so they can close up shop and disappear.

I prefer not to speculate. I prefer to deal with the facts.

And for me, there was simply no other way to get to the truth, other than to try the product, give it my best shot, and see if it works. If it doesn’t work out, hopefully we learn as much as we can, get a refund, and then move on. This is the chance we all take with ANY investment that could potentially improve our lives in some way. Usually, I prefer not to reach this far into territory I don’t fully understand (automated forex trading). But I figure if “they” can make a robot win at chess against the vast majority of human players, then “they” can make software that can predict recurring trends in forex markets with high enough accuracy to be consistently profitable.

145

Ok, I just logged in to get the updated version of FusionV that another poster mentioned. (Again, it’s odd that they didn’t send out a notice that they updated the robot).

Anyway, there’s a forward testing account statement in there that I thought was interesting. Here it is:
forex-robot-world-cup.com/results/fusion_forwardtest/statement.htm

[Dear moderator, there is nothing to buy at this link, there’s not even anything someone could click on once they open the page. It’s an account statement.]

  • Account type : Forward test - live traded
  • Risk level : CONSERVATIVE
    - Lot size: 0.3 (fixed) - 0.03 lots per $1,000 INITIAL equity
  • SuperVolcano disabled
  • All other settings default
  • Updated : Every 15 minutes during market hours
  • Investor password : N/A - This is a demo account

The following forward-test statement is for Fusion-V 1.2.

The reason I put it in here, is because it indicates that a profit of $5000 or more per month is possible with only a $10000 investment.

Also, I’d like to know what kinds of red flags would be important to look for in analyzing these forward tests and live account statements that are popping up in various places. It’s too bad we can’t see which EA was making which trades.

146

ZenGlen,

The EAs are easy to identify by their trading patterns.

HiRider - puts on multiple EURUSD trades with 12 pip profit target
LMD - puts trades on at 0:00 GMT every day; various pairs
Straasha - trades the EURGBP only and usually puts on multiple trades
SuperVolcano - trades the GBPJPY only
Neg-Corr - trades the USDCHF only

Red flags to watch for is changing the lot size in the middle of the period either bigger or lower. I think I also spotted some manual closing of trades on Mar 1 because the trade didn’t hit SL or TP. Seems strange that other accounts kept trading these.

7438570 2010.03.01 00:00 sell 0.30 audusdiam 0.89742 0.90292 0.87242 2010.03.01 12:40 0.89376 -3.00 0.00 0.00 109.80
7438779 2010.03.01 00:00 buy 0.30 usdcadiam 1.05233 1.04683 1.07533 2010.03.01 12:40 1.05440 -2.85 0.00 0.00 58.90
7438843 2010.03.01 00:00 buy 0.30 eurgbpiam 0.89896 0.89396 0.91896 2010.03.01 12:40 0.91490 -4.53 0.00 0.00 706.92

147

Clearly, you don’t have this EA. Leave
making clear comments to those who
actually own this EA and is testing it
with high scrutiny. Me and my friends
are critically testing this as well.

And it does not take much observation
to realize rather quickly that every
EA in this package sucks except for
LMD Multi_Currency. Now, HiRider is
decent as well but most people will
struggle with proper SL and TP settings.
Accepting default of 210 SL and 12 TP
is not even worth considering.

And LMD Multi_Currency quite often does
not rely on SL or TP to close out trades.
So, no… they were not manually closed
out since that’s what we see on our platform
as well. LMD is mostly driven by closing
prices, in fact, opening is closing price
dependent as well. Sometimes SL is hit
but also many times trades close when the
price is no where even close to SL or TP.
So, we can say they were not manually
closed out. So, that is no “red flag”.
You can’t determine a damn thing by
looking at someone’s live or demo account.
The real way to see anything is to run it
live on a live money account by yourself
and observe what it does minute by minute.

HiRider does have some merit if you can
settle on proper SL and TP settings to
satisfy your own taste of risk/reward
which most newbies are not prepared
to do. Accepting default is no option
at all. However, LMD works well right
out of default settings and it works
quite well. Risk Reward is quite decent.
But you have to accept it since there
is no parameters to change it. Important
to note that HiRider would have won the
competition had it traded fixed lots of
even just .1 lot but it was using .01-.02
sizing. It would have made well over $8000
soundly beating LMD EA. So, HiRider does
have merits provided that you can come
up with SL and TP setting you are content
with. And these are being traded on
FXCM right? A broker with the crappiest
server in existence. Even if we are all on
FXCM, we will all have different results since
their servers are so damn random. So that
means nothing since FXCM sucks. I think
HiRider will work really well as a full scalper
with small SL and small TP on ECN platform
such as Dukascopy. Too bad that they are
still on beta test of MT4.

Unless you have bought this for the purpose of
critically testing it, kindly shut it with SCAM
yellings. That also is totally useless activity
just as the affiliates peddling this thing.
And wrong argument there. Every damn
EA put together must have parameters available
whether it is a commercial EA or a private EA.
If it does not have parameters that are easily
controlled without having to constantly recompile
it, again it is pointless and useless. Again pointless
if Plimus is SCAM or not. All pointless argument
because the person screaming SCAM cannot afford
to buy this EA to actually test it out.

Now, have said all that… every thing else sucks
except for LMD MultiCurrency. That EA has
tremendous merit. Yes, it is overpriced.
Yes, their sales page is hyped up. Is it worth
more than ClickBank $97? Absolutely not.
But does it work and is it a well programmed
EA? Yes. Not the other crap fused with it…
but LMD MultiCurrency EA is quite a decent one.