Going offshore to escape the CFTC

Broker Discussion Forex Brokers
3962

For me, there’s a great attraction to have second-by-second control over trades, and to be
able to predict what the market’s going to do in the next 60-90 seconds. BUT… HEAR THIS:
that is absolutely not the way to make lots of $$$$$ even if you could do it !! As my views
on the Forex market matured, and with a lot of suffering and literally thousands of lines
of code trying to implement this “control freak” approach… after all that, my view is that
it is not the way to get rich.

So I’ve come to believe now that the trades which “normal” traders want, the ones that
move 50-150 PIPs over a day or two; that’s where the real money is. And so, although it’s
hard for some of us, we have to give up that “control freak” obsession and fear which
motivates an attempt to control the trade and “surf the wiggles”.

The most basic thing which was always in the back of my mind, is that “it takes time
for price to move”. That is really the Achilles heel of all scalping. Small moves require
large positions, with what is probably unachievable accuracy in order to make money;
and it will wear out even a younger trader, not to mention those of us who are staring
retirement in the face.

I’d love to make this post relevant to the CFTC topic, but all I can say is that usage of
the offshore brokerages preserves what is best about Forex trading; and the solid
contribution of MetaTrader over all these years (which is showing its age); IRONICALLY
became the bedrock of the new software I wrote to manage trades.

Since it takes time for price to move, there are really only TWO things which are
important:

  1. Being able to predict the future consistently.
  2. Managing positions over longer periods of time.

#2 is fairly easy to automate; but #1 is the Holy Grail we’re all looking for.

It is undeniable that in Forex prices move because of “fundamental” relationships
among the world’s major Currencies. So Currency Strength Analysis, simply has
to be the best way to approach things; not analysis of short term "Depth of Market"
or Spike Analysis or Order Flow Analysis or any of those other things. I think I’ve
found my Holy Grail; and now it’s just a matter of scaling a business, etc… and
these offshore brokers are a key way to achieve leverage and functionality which
has been driven out of the U.S. by over-regulation. THIS THREAD has really been
a life saver for me, personally, and I thank Clint for all this effort !!

Just my 2 cents. In conclusion, U.S. people: SUPPORT these offshore brokerages
which allow us to trade Forex as it was meant to be traded !!!

hyperscalper

3963

Minimum, average and maximum spreads
observered over a period of time. These
are MetaTrader 4 ECN Variable Spreads
accounts plus commission. As you can
see, sometimes spreads are very narrow.

This means that Market orders will get
good pricing, but I always recommend using
Limit orders for guaranteed pricing.

Response latencies for these brokerages can
be quite quick. Contact the brokerage for
details, as they will help you to get the
best performance.

With 100 msecs ping roundtrip times
included, we see Limit order placement
times <250 msecs and with FinProTrading,
we see around 160 msecs.

These brokers are flexible and U.S. friendly,
so they can accommodate most of your
requirements.

Tradersway Bid/Ask Spreads
symbol min , avg , max spread pips
AUDCAD, 0.6 , 1.2 , 1.7 #
AUDCHF, 1.0 , 1.3 , 1.8 #
AUDJPY, 0.1 , 0.6 , 1.0 #
AUDNZD, 0.5 , 1.1 , 1.7 #
AUDUSD, 0.3 , 0.6 , 0.8 #
CADCHF, 1.5 , 1.8 , 2.4 ##
CADJPY, 0.6 , 0.9 , 1.2 #
CHFJPY, 0.8 , 1.3 , 2.1 #
EURAUD, 0.3 , 1.0 , 1.7 #
EURCAD, 0.7 , 1.3 , 1.7 #
EURCHF, 0.5 , 0.9 , 1.4 #
EURGBP, 0.4 , 0.6 , 0.9 #
EURJPY, 0.8 , 1.1 , 1.5 #
EURNZD, 1.4 , 2.3 , 3.2 ##
EURUSD, 0.1 , 0.3 , 0.5
GBPAUD, 0.9 , 2.0 , 2.5 ##
GBPCAD, 1.6 , 2.1 , 2.6 ##
GBPCHF, 1.2 , 1.8 , 2.5 ##
GBPJPY, 0.7 , 1.2 , 1.6 #
GBPNZD, 2.3 , 3.4 , 5.0 ###
GBPUSD, 0.5 , 0.9 , 1.1 #
NZDCAD, 3.2 , 3.7 , 4.3 ####
NZDCHF, 2.9 , 3.3 , 4.3 ###
NZDJPY, 2.5 , 2.9 , 3.2 ###
NZDUSD, 0.6 , 1.0 , 1.5 #
USDCAD, 0.5 , 0.9 , 1.1 #
USDCHF, 0.5 , 0.9 , 1.3 #
USDJPY, 0.2 , 0.5 , 0.7

FinProTrading (aka TurnkeyFX) Bid/Ask Spreads
symbol min , avg , max spread pips
AUDCAD, 0.8 , 1.6 , 2.3 ##
AUDCHF, 0.8 , 1.5 , 2.6 ##
AUDJPY, 0.4 , 1.0 , 1.4 #
AUDNZD, 0.5 , 1.7 , 2.5 ##
AUDUSD, 0.1 , 0.5 , 0.8 #
CADCHF, 0.7 , 1.8 , 2.7 ##
CADJPY, 0.7 , 1.5 , 2.6 ##
CHFJPY, 1.5 , 2.2 , 2.9 ##
EURAUD, 1.0 , 1.7 , 2.2 ##
EURCAD, 1.2 , 1.9 , 2.5 ##
EURCHF, 0.2 , 0.8 , 1.4 #
EURGBP, 0.1 , 0.7 , 1.1 #
EURJPY, 0.1 , 0.6 , 1.0 #
EURNZD, 1.6 , 3.4 , 4.0 ###
EURUSD, 0.1 , 0.3 , 0.4
GBPAUD, 1.9 , 2.9 , 3.7 ###
GBPCAD, 1.9 , 3.0 , 3.8 ###
GBPCHF, 1.1 , 2.3 , 3.4 ##
GBPJPY, 1.3 , 1.9 , 2.5 ##
GBPNZD, 3.6 , 5.5 , 7.8 #####
GBPUSD, 0.3 , 0.9 , 1.4 #
NZDCAD, 1.7 , 2.9 , 4.0 ###
NZDCHF, 1.2 , 2.3 , 4.0 ##
NZDJPY, 1.4 , 2.1 , 2.8 ##
NZDUSD, 0.6 , 1.1 , 1.3 #
USDCAD, 0.2 , 0.7 , 1.2 #
USDCHF, 0.3 , 0.7 , 1.1 #
USDJPY, 0.1 , 0.4 , 0.6

hyperscalper

3964

Hey everyone…new to the forum and somewhat new to trading. So I’ve been using FXCM for awhile. I’m a US resident and have no issues as of yet. But…I would like to get into and know more about other things such as trading gold, oil, s&p. I also would like more leverage over the 50:1.

I hear a lot of great things about Traders Way, LMFX and Tallinex but not sure where I want to go and how they’re deposit and withdraw processes are. I don’t scalp so I’m not concerned about a tiny delay in order or a 1pip difference. I’m more concerned about where things are headed here in the US and nervous about shifting my account to someone offshore and what that will mean for me legally, taxes, etc.

I appreciate any tips, links, info to sort through all the noise.

1 Like
3965

I’m going to pardon your ignorance of my particular situation and simply explain what happened.

FinPro had two major series of data outages with their CFD feed - it only affected the DAX from all that I could gather, and I was keeping tabs on all their CFDs to see if it was just a one-off issue, global, etc.

The first incident they claimed fully with open arms as their own fault. I sent the logs that I had to prove it was not a connection issue on my side, that I couldn’t execute trades, etc. I took some losses that they credited within hours, to my satisfaction.

About three to four days later, it happened again, and much worse. DAX was out yet again after NFP. I couldn’t get any trades off (I had open positions I was trying to kill) and they denied any wrongdoing.

So, I sent all of my findings to my bank since I’d funded with my debit card, and issued a chargeback. My bank found me to be in the right and took the original deposit back from the merchant. So please think about it the next time you’re going to ask people to make intelligent statements and consider making one of your own.

It was disheartening to see that kind of reply from you, since you’ve given so much valuable input into this thread otherwise. Hopefully it was just a one-off / ignorance / etc.

3966

SORRY, but all of my comments are restricted to FOREX, and not to any other feeds or
instruments like DAX, etc. So I think that’s why I made my comments; I did not realize
you were talking about NON-FOREX instruments. Please accept my apology for strongly
supporting FinProTrading.com from my experiences so far.

Let’s stipulate that we are both “intelligent” and that should settle things :slight_smile:

hyperscalper

3967

If you are concerned about execution speed at Tradersway, and you need much shorter
latencies, contact Joe Carney and explain the situation. Would shorter latencies make you
a loyal customer for the brokerage in question? If so, then they will be very helpful in
addressing your concerns.

However, if you are just “shopping around” then perhaps you can’t expect any forms of
special client status accommodation. I hope you’re understanding what I’m hinting at…

hyperscalper

3968

Yeah, thanks. I spent some time working on the issue with Joe, nothing major but enough to know that I’m not getting any faster than 0.8 seconds for a fill. I can get 4x faster executions elsewhere. Otherwise I would love TW, and I still find them to be a solid choice.

thanks for the clarifications on the other post, btw.

3969

OK, let’s say you can’t get any faster. (I suspect that’s not true…) So, the real question is,
what are you really doing that needs faster fills ? If you use Limits, the latency issue is
diminished somewhat. But, as I said previously, if you are a loyal client who is able to
bring a solid business to TW, then your issue can be resolved. I am not allowed to give
any more details… :slight_smile: hyperscalper

My software measures performance, something like this:
Task: SimpleBuyLimit EURUSDi lots: 0.01 price: 1.11498 serial number [ 1 ] started.
Buy Limit Ticket #17936684 submitted.
OrderOp elapsed: 234 msec
task: SimpleBuyLimit EURUSDi lots: 0.01 price: 1.11498 serial number [ 1 ] ended.
Task: <none> serial number [ 2 ] started.
OrderOp elapsed *: <not measured>
Task: CancelOrder EURUSDi serial number [ 3 ] started.
CancelOrderTask : ticket:17936684 run latency: 0
task: <none> serial number [ 2 ] ended.
OrderOp elapsed: 221 msec
task: CancelOrder EURUSDi serial number [ 3 ] ended.
Task: SimpleBuyLimit EURUSDi lots: 0.02 price: 1.11498 serial number [ 4 ] started.
Buy Limit Ticket #17936691 submitted.
OrderOp elapsed: 229 msec
task: SimpleBuyLimit EURUSDi lots: 0.02 price: 1.11498 serial number [ 4 ] ended.
Task: <none> serial number [ 5 ] started.
OrderOp elapsed *: <not measured>
Task: CancelOrder EURUSDi serial number [ 6 ] started.
task: <none> serial number [ 5 ] ended.
CancelOrderTask : ticket:17936691 run latency: 0
OrderOp elapsed: 213 msec
task: CancelOrder EURUSDi serial number [ 6 ] ended.

3970

I don’t typically use limits, as my exit points are very dynamic - but that could be done. I would love to know what else can be done to reduce the speeds there - can you perhaps give me an approximation of what your lowest execution times have been with your specialized setup?

3971

haven’t had espresso yet sorry - just read your post again - OK so let’s assume those were your lowest times. That would be great and something I’d be interested in working with. But are those only for cancels / modifications, or actual fills on new market orders?

3972

I would say that brokers value what they judge to be a long term business relationship, just like
any other business. Clients of any business often negotiate preferred terms, based upon a “win-win”
relationship which exists. Brokerage are no different.

In my case, I use Limit orders and only secondarily, Market orders. But one of the trading “modes”
is a short term “scalping” mode. In that case, multiple price entries are used to establish a VWAP
position, so there might be a dozen orders filled, and others unfilled. There comes a point where we
want to CLOSE them all. IN THAT CASE, speed is important because a close is a “market” type of
order, implicitly.

In such an “aggregate” position, I am not interested in Profit/Loss of individual positions. What matters
is the VWAP (volume weighted average price) profit of the “order group”. Ignoring for a moment, when
we “scale out” incrementally, most of the time, we want to get out “now” and, as I said, this means the
closure/cancellation of a dozen or more individual “sub positions”.

My software is custom written over the NJ4X.com framework, which is Java over an API into Standard MT4
terminal “pools” which actually perform the Order Entry operations. So one terminal.exe process is
dedicated to incoming Market Data, and 2 or 3 or more processes are dedicated to Order Execution.
If I have a dozen positions to close, and MT4 is not Asynchronous in its order operation, then this
method gives us an accelerated “parallel” Order capability. Instead of closing 12 positions, one at a
time, we can use 3 terminal.exe servers (all into the same account) which are able to close that
position 3 times faster, than a single terminal alone, because they work concurrently. This is the
main reason why latency is important to me, but it is not the only criterion.

Because the software initiates orders over the NJ4X framework using multiple Java threads, each
thread is able to report when it started, and finished each order operation.

Hope that was an “intelligent” enough explanation, but certain business relationships, discounts,
and other preferential treatment a client might receive, are best kept confidential. As I said before,
if you go to any broker with what appears to be a substantial business opportunity, then you will
always be able to negotiate some preferential arrangements as the relationship develops… :slight_smile:

hyperscalper

3973

I’m currently living in Puerto Rico (US Territory), I want to trade Forex. Stock account in the US consider PR to be international so brokerages in the US place it under their US division. I can’t seem to find a Forex brokerage that handles it the same way. Has anyone else run into this problem or have suggestions?

3974

[U]Playing catch-up.[/U]

• Finally, I have updated post #7 (LINKS pertaining to specific Group 1 brokers).

Here are the updates:

FinproTrading (UK) — posts #3501, #3542, #3569, #3741, and #3744

LMFX (Macedonia) — posts #3501, #3551, #3552, and #3709

ForexBrokerInc (The Marshall Islands) — post #3529

Tallinex (SVG) — posts #3519, #3623, and #3720

FX Choice (Belize) — post #3720

Trader’s Way (Dominica) — posts #3542, #3560, #3692, #3708, #3720, #3736, and #3744

TradeWiseFX (SVG) — posts #3498, and #3709

As I have noted previously, LINKS consume a lot of the 15,000 characters allowed in any one post in this forum. The links listed above put the total size of post #7 over the limit, requiring some removals. As a work-around, I have changed some of the oldest post numbers to plain text, while listing the newest post numbers as live links.

• Also, I have updated ForexBrokerInc and Trader’s Way in the Group 1 List to reflect the corrections noted by Spyderman in post #3733.

.

3975

lol @ the intelligent remark - very much so! Really appreciated this post and the time you’ve taken here. Thank you.

3976

I don’t understand your question. Please clarify.

Are you looking for a U.S. forex broker (for example: FXCM in New York), or an offshore forex broker (for example: Tallinex in St. Vincent and the Grenadines)?

Both of those brokers (FXCM and Tallinex) will welcome your business as a resident of Puerto Rico. And there are many others — Trader’s Way in Dominica, for example.

.

3978

hey I believe FX Glory is now regulated in two different countries (Georgia and Bulgaria).

3979

As things ramp up in my trading operation, I’m getting more
experience with FinProTrading.com . I don’t think I’ll be telling
any “secrets” which are not publicly available.

They emailed a client letter advertising “lower latency” and I think
I already addressed that by measuring right around 60-70 MSEC
round-trip Order Times (and that’s subtracting out our 105 MSEC
ping round-trip time from our Miami, FL server).

THE “PRO” IN FinPROTrading is very definitely true. This is a brokerage
for specialist scalpers and other “PRO” traders in the retail space
at least.

The MetaTrader 4 Tick feed is so detailed and FAST that it’s actually
possible to “read” market direction off the Tick Chart on MT4 and
“see” when the BID is dropped due to a large Retail Seller. With a
bit of Analytics, this can help Scalping to determine when a market
is about to turn, even without a Market Depth to watch.

They did Offer a Colocated VPS Server, available to all clients, which
will offer a Latency to their servers of ONE MSEC or less. I looked
into this, but our software needs more Power than a VPS can deliver.
So we needed a Dedicated server. Their rep “George” looked into
this for me, as they are working with Webzilla in their Colocation
of servers at their data center.

Ultimately, however, going with their quoted Dedicated Quad Xeon
offering was going to require a $200 / month fee, and so I thanked
him for getting the quote, at least. Note that their basic VPS colocation
offerings are much less expensive for less demanding applications.

Which brings me to our solution to this Latency issue by situating
a dedicated server in Amsterdam. Both Tradersway.com and FinProTrading.com
say their backend data centers are in Amsterdam.

SO I FOUND A DEDICATED HOST in Amsterdam, QuickServers.com
and they are offering a Intel Xeon E3-1225 - 16GB RAM - 250GB SSD
plus a basic DirectAdmin console for recovery, etc., and 25GB of
local on site storage for backup ISO images all for… wait for it !!!
Euros 58.00 / month so I think we’ll shortly be situating a server there, and
expecting to eliminate much of our current 100 MSEC ping times…
I’ll get back to you on how this works in a month or so…

Getting back to FinProTrading.com I’d just like to continue to support
them as just about the best I’ve seen for really Demanding retail
scalping, if that is part of your strategy. Their support is very good,
and they are able to offer leverages in the 400:1 range. Other
performance stats, I could tack on here, but just to say I have NEVER
had any “off quotes” Order Rejections, and so this is simply a very
good brokerage, RESTRICTING my comments only to FOREX .

Good Trading !
hyperscalper

3980

wow what non sense they have a rule 6.11 that says trades around news release will be invalidated. but it does not say anything about how long before news you can enter or how long after news you can exit. lots of profits were cancelled due to this :((((((

also if you hold a trade less than 7 minutes it will be cancelled. i had one for 6 minutes and 30 seconds closed in profit cancelled.

will never do business with them, hoping to withdraw everything and try another broker. But most are not regulated. Seems like only FX Choice in Group 1. :31::31:

3981

Any broker with any sort of stipulations/rules like that should be avoided 100%. Can’t believe something like that even exists. Talk about a bucketshop.

3982

I’ve been seeing alot of talk of tradersway lately and how great they are.

Has anyone looked in their accounts at the withdrawl section.

I don’t see “wire transfer” listed anywhere.

How in the world is anyone supposed to get their profits out after they reach the limits of withdrawing back to their card based on their deposit. Every other “processor” is pretty much useless/not working for U.S.A

EDIT:

Sent an email to tradersway, wire transfers withdraw requests can be issued directly by emailing TW after all previous card deposits have been refunded.