At Federal Court Orders Estonian Forex Dealer to Pay over $10 Million in Sanctions for Defrauding U.S. Customers and Orders Introducing Broker that Solicited for Dealer to Pay $85,000 Penalty | U.S. COMMODITY FUTURES TRADING COMMISSION , the US CFTC says any US resident who has ever lost money while trading with Tallinex is now eligible for a restitution of the loss: “The Default Order requires Tallinex to pay $10,289,391 in restitution to U.S. customers”. You can contact the CFTC for details at [email protected]
So I’ve switched to TurnkeyFX. Support has been great, commissions seemed much better then other brokers, and they promised really REALLY low spreads. Have been live trading for over a month now and have found some issues.
-
SPREADS: Yes, they typically have low spreads (less then a pip), but most news events or when liquidity eases off (beginning of Asian session), those spreads go through the roof (+10 pips). 8h30 (8:30am) on a Friday during a CAD news event the spread increased to +35 pips. Granted, I haven’t monitored spread a lot at my other brokers, but that shocked me!!
-
SWAPS: So another trader was kind enough to walk through the spreads today and compare them to a few other brokers he uses. End result is that Turnkey really (like REALLY!!) sucks on most swaps. Unless you’re in-and-out during the day, those swaps really eat into your profits quickly. It’s something I hadn’t paid a lot of attention to in the past, but now that I hold some trades for 2 days - 2 weeks, it’s starting to make a huge difference. Turnkey better true up it’s swaps soon or just go out of business.
So that’s my thoughts at this point. Hopefully we can negotiate some better swaps with them, but I’m going to begin looking at some of the other brokers in the above list. Right now it sucks to trade FX as a US citizen (EU is starting to feel our pain with their recent regulatory changes).
Cheers,
FW
Yes, there are specific times when TurnkeyForex or FinProTrading have terrible spreads, mainly Rollover time or certain News Events where there is lower liquidity or higher uncertainty. I would describe their Tick feed as “highly reactive” and feeding close to 5x-10x as many “deltas” or ticks as the 3rd tier brokerages… However…
Execution is lightning fast, and accurate; and I’ve previously posted the Order Operations round trip latencies which are very stable, and on the fast end of the sprectrum for these kinds of “cheap” brokers… (Unfortunately, we U.S. persons do not have the full range of choices of the world’s best, but these two brokers are among the best we have…)
SWAPS? I don’t know about that topic.
Here’s a screenshot of their spreads NOW, just 5 minutes away from Rollover…
[EDIT] by comparison, here we are NOW, 21:15 GMT immediately after rollover.
[EDIT2] If you use close brokerage STOPs these Spread anomalies can cause
triggering of STOPs… I recommend not using broker stops; or keeping them far
away as a “safety net” only, partially because of this effect…
hyperscalper
1 Like
SWAPS are typically a function of interest rate differential. Based on my analysis there are two types of brokers. One that focus on commissions and let the swaps be calculated theoretically and another types who focus on swaps and cover that up in their commissions. Technically, I prefer the first type but it also depend on your strategy. If you are a low frequency trader, you should focus more on swaps and not as much on commissions. While if you trade more than a couple of times a day, you should focus more on commissions (this , mathematically is irespective of the size of the trade but the average size of the trade)
Here is how theoretically SWAPS should be calculated in a “no-arbitrage” pricing model.
(Interest Rate of Numerator - Interest Rate of Denominator ) / 365 (or 252 based on frequency of swap posting)
So for example, if you are long BRLUSD and assuming the interst rate on BRL is 13% and that on USD is 1% then your swap charges is 12% per annum. So for one lot of BRLUSD you will pay 12000 USD per year or $32 per standard lot per day. And if you are short BRLUSD, you will earn $32 per standard lot per day.
Now to make it precise, you will have to add interest rate factor of your account into prespective. This is a hidden area and every broker has his own interest factor. But this in theory is to cover the 400X leverage that you are utilising and the cost of providing you with that leverage. Lets say if the interest cost if 1% and you are using 400X leverage, then this cost is 4% per year for the broker and your swap rates for Long BRLUSD will be 16% (13% - 1% + 4%) and Short BRLUSD will be -8% (13% - 1% - 4%) which means that you will pay $43 per standard lot per day and if you are short BRLUSD you will get $22 per standard lot per day.
Also note, there are only 2 variable factors in this One) What is internal leverage cost of the broker and Two) is the broker baking in swaps in the commission or not (lower commission versus higher commissions)
Now these examples are in no way reflection of Finpro or turnkeyforex or turnkeyfx but a general an example that is used by each and every broker in the industry. I know it so precisely because I used to do swap arbitrage and this is the basic calcuation that needs to go into the model to find arbitrage opportunities. And if you have an interest in SWAP arbitrage, you should try and find islamic accounts and see how you can play around that (sorry, no more details on a public forum about it 
)
Hope that helps
If you are looking for an offshore broker then I can highly recommend Hugosway.
1 Like
Yeah it’s those times when spreads just go wild that get me nervous. Yes typically they’re tight, but there’s quite a few situations where they’ve widened to +5 pips.
Thanks for the thorough explanation, and yes I understand how swaps work, but because the FX market is decentralized (which is not new), brokers charge different swap rates. I didn’t pay much attention to this in the past, but now I really see how critical it is. If your broker (and this isn’t just Turnkey) promises low commissions and ulti-tight spreads, WATCH OUT for the swap rates because that is where they’ll recoup their money. Hopefully we can get Turnkey’s swaps to a more realistic place because I’ve really liked working with them. They’ve got a couple decent swaps right now, but some are totally insane – basically situations where they’re collect $4 in interest from the long, and only pay the short $1.
BTW if you’re unfamiliar with how to check your broker’s swaps, you can find the details in your MT4. In the “Market Watch” window right click on the currency pair you want to check. A list will appear – click on “Specifications” and scroll down. You’ll see the long and short swaps, as well as which day they’ll pay triple swaps on (since swaps aren’t paid out Sat and Sun). If you want to compare your broker to mine (Turnkey), just shoot me a list of your swap rates and I’ll return the favor.
Cheers,
FW (I haven’t proof read this, so sorry for any mistakes)
@whywescalp Can you shoot me a message about Islamic accounts? I took a course on that in college but would like to know more about what you’re talking about.
Question 1: Comparing both of these companies Turnkey is a better choice looking at the ECN Accounts with min $200 and $2 per turn lot VS FinPro Trading at $4 per turn lot.
Question 2: Turnkey and FinPro Trading must have the same parent company they have the same exact stats across the board otherwise via myfxbook.
Yes, that agrees with my experience. Other than commission or other “negotiables” they are roughly equivalent technically.
hyperscalper
has anybody made a few withdrawals from turnkey forex? if so whats the process and how long does it take. thanks in advance
you can very easily get on chat with finpro guys and get $2 per round lot (they happily oblige 
, I have no idea why they do it like this. My guess is that they prefer clients talking to them and thats why they also man their live chat 24 hours a day )
I personally dont believe they are the same companies or have same parent. They are using technology from the same provider turnkeyfx.com and turnkeyfx clearly says all the service they provide for setting up or managing a forex brokerage. We have discussed it in length on this thread earlier on.
Think of mobile phones for a second. One Plus, Motorola, Nexus and Sony use the same version of Android, they all look and feel the same (At the software level) except the hardware that they offer and the price that they charge for it. So does that mean One Plus, Motorola, Google and Sony are all owned by the same parent company ? Obviously we all know that they are different companies operating and serving different types of consumers. Its the exact same case with Finpro, turnkeyfx and turnkeyforex. The use the same technology provider which is turnkeyfx.com but they are different companies and you can feel the difference in their character by talking to their respective sales people.
I wish finpro and turnkeyforex guys are reading this thread and do something about their potential brand identity issues here 
. Guys, get your MT4’s branded with you own logos. Because traders tend to link you with eachother and your logos are more important than your client service (no offience if you are reading this thread).
In my personal opinion I absolutely prefer Coinexx followed by Finpro then turnkeyforex and last Lqdfx (in the exact same order of preference). all four are top notch brokers and they are doing amazing service to traders by protecting our interest and keeping the leverage levels intact and still offering amazing commissions and service to both US and non-US clients.
And after ESMA following the footsteps of CFTC, its even more important for EU and US traders to have a few decent brokers like these. Keep the good work going guys… !
i just talk to a trader from JAFX he told me before the lawsuit that if you did a wire transfer to JAFX it was going to wells fargo in California, this is the real reason they got sued by cftc, same with tallinex they was using a IB borker in the u.s. in others words don’t have a physical presence in the .U.S. or get sued
Some one who works for them told you this? Or just someone who uses them as a broker?
I still use them as a broker.
someone who use to use this broker, i don’t know if it’s true or not, but he said they was using wells fargo bank for there wire transfer
@smallpaul I have made a few withdrawals from Turnkey forex, You raise a withdrawal request with them from your account and they process it in 48 hours (Weekdays), the wire takes another 1-2 days for me to receive from my bank…it is pretty smooth…
Thanks for replying. Might be true, might be hearsay.
FinProTrading is getting hammered by withdrawal issues on ForexPeaceAcademy
ForexPeaceArmy ? just wondering…
hyperscalper