Going offshore to escape the CFTC

[HyperScalper]

The 5AMLD policy is similar to how CoinBase operates within US jurisdiction. Although we are not required to provide KYC for our crypto wallets, we ARE required to provide KYC to use CoinBase in order to purchase/sell crypto, and that data is accessible to IRS audits and government investigations which could personally tie you to any external wallet address that is associated with that CoinBase account, that can be tracked on the blockchain…even if one of those wallet addresses has nothing to do with you and is used for the ‘t’ word. Good luck proving your innocence.

THANKS FOR THAT. I personally am wrapping my head around the
Samourai Wallet, and transitioning to private custodial wallets. There is,
however, a steep learning curve. What does Coinbase provide me,
that I can’t replicate with a non-custodial or self-custodial personal wallet?

Transfers to/from a Bank account is one thing that comes to mind.
Not sure what else; so I’d need to look at how to accomplish such
functions outside the custodial regime of a Coinbase cloud.

hyperscalper

[_METHOS]

What does Coinbase provide me,

that I can’t replicate with a non-custodial or self-custodial personal wallet?

Transfers to/from a Bank account is one thing that comes to mind.

That is pretty much it. The biggest issue for anyone that is looking to make use of crypto, has always been the fiat-to-crypto conversion and back. There are other, anonymous ways to procure cryptocurrency, but they will likely come with a hefty fee and sources for such may likely dwindle over time as law enforcement and other agencies look to take them down. It may become one of those things where peer-to-peer transactions may be the only solution, only then, it will be like a drug deal where if you are caught, you will face criminal charges.

[HyperScalper]

There are other, anonymous ways to procure cryptocurrency, but they will likely come with a hefty fee and sources for such may likely dwindle over time as law enforcement and other agencies look to take them down. It may become one of those things where peer-to-peer transactions may be the only solution, only then, it will be like a drug deal where if you are caught, you will face criminal charges.

That’s pretty harsh. But let’s assume anonymity “drug deal” buying and
selling of Crypto <–> Cash is not so much my objective; I just want to hold
my own Crypto. Then, surely, services exist now where I can spend Crypto
and cause deposits to my Bank account, right ? Or the reverse? After
all, if Coinbase does it, then there ought to be plenty such services?

Doesn’t LocalBitcoins dot com provide such a bridge service already?

hyperscalper

[_METHOS]

Localbitcoins is a peer-to-peer transaction site, similar to craiglist, but for bitcoin. Some arrests have already been made where sellers were conducting deals that they were not ‘licensed’ to do so:

LocalBitcoins Seller Pleads Guilty to Operating Unlicensed Business | NewsBTC

The idea may be harsh, but the reality is not that far off.

There are crypto cards, that act like prepaid credit cards, that will allow you to use crypto to make purchases anywhere such cards (e.g. visa) are accepted. Similarly, they also allow cash advances via ATM’s and the like. These cards are subject to KYC, just as with any, legitimate banking organization (assuming that they are legitimate). You may find a card or service that operates within a jurisdiction that allows them to skirt various oversight and regulatory groups, but you run a real risk of having your funds stolen.

No matter how you look at it (buying/selling of crypto, or spending of your own money), you are ultimately looking at how to convert fiat-crypto and crypto-fiat, which is the buying/selling of crypto. Even the prepaid crypto cards are set up this way, in that, the cryptocurrency is automatically converted to fiat (sold) prior to the purchase or withdrawal, so that you are actually paying with fiat. Until individuals and businesses start accepting cryptocurrency as payment on a large scale, the conversion of fiat-to-crypto and back will be necessary.

In all cases that I know of, with the exception of peer-to-peer transactions, any service that offers the conversion of fiat-to-crypto and back is and/or will be regulated and usually must hold some form of license to operate, fall under various legal jurisdictions and be forced to comply with local laws et al.

[SmallPaul]

what you gonna do YouTube

[Xanaphlaxes]

which could personally tie you to any external wallet address that is associated with that CoinBase account, that can be tracked on the blockchain…even if one of those wallet addresses has nothing to do with you and is used for the ‘t’ word. Good luck proving your innocence.

Yes, this is what always scared me about crypocurrency. Out of control enforcement that “sort of” knows how to track transactions could have really bad results for innocent people. I plan on setting up easily trackable transactions and getting rid of all other wallets. Every week I move money from these brokers and convert to fiat. Being prepared to prove innocence should not be needed, but is not a bad idea in the current situation.
There’s a new question on the 2019 tax return form, “At any time during 2019, did you receive, sell, send, exchange, or otherwise acquire any financial interest in any virtual currency?”. That’s scary. I don’t like being singled out. Presumably all those anarchistic sky miles users will also be included!

That all being said, KYC is not unusual or even unreasonable. Every advanced civilization on planet Earth has a need to know about large money movements in their country. There are reasonable (and unreasonable) ways to go about it.

[_METHOS]

That all being said, KYC is not unusual or even unreasonable.

If I am being honest, I would prefer to have the choice. Not because I plan on doing anything questionable, but because I like my privacy and I do not like governments and regulatory groups to have their hands in everything, see everything, control everything and profit off of everything etc…

That being said, regarding KYC, it needs to be all or nothing. You cannot force KYC on some but not on others because that could potentially put a target on the backs of innocent, law-abiding citizens, as previously mentioned. Unfortunately, should it be decided that KYC is the only way to go, then getting all countries to agree on such a thing may not be possible, which is what would need to happen in order for anything to work well.

I suspect that things will continue as they have been, though, in which law-abiding, hard-working citizens will continue getting the short-end of the stick while criminals, governments and corporations continue doing whatever they want.

[Xanaphlaxes]

Yes, ideally we wouldn’t have to worry about it!

Although, my point is that the governments of the world, even the most citizen friendly ones, will never let everyone transfer money completely anonymously, because there is a legitimate public safety need to track money flows.
The only places you can live where the government is completely out of your business are pretty dangerous, unless you are Han Solo.
I would like to see the government stick to protecting the people, providing a fair playing field for business, and providing a solid and fair framework for rule of law.
KYC can be used for legitimate purposes. We are in full agreement about the ease of abuse and need to stop said abuse.
Its dangerous ground and things could go south (even more than it already has) pretty quickly.

[_METHOS]

At the end of the day, we have to be honest with ourselves and ask the question of whether or not such requirements are really going to solve the kinds of problems that are being used as justification for such policies.

Take, for example, any criminal or corporation, small or large, using fiat currency to conduct business. They can do so, launder that money, evade taxes etc., regardless of the overwhelming amount of control and oversight that we currently have with traditional financial systems. Sure, the level of difficulty may rise a bit for the smaller operators, but the possibilities to skirt around such measures are real and can be regularly seen.

At the end of the day, the law-abiding, hard-working citizens are going to carry the brunt of the burden while criminals continue to enjoy the freedom of operating in the shadows.

What we are seeing now will be little different if those same criminals are conducting business via virtual currency while the average user is having to comply with invasive policies that should have never existed in the first place.

Just my opinion.

EDIT:
To put things into perspective, anyone, anywhere, can send bitcoin anonymously, in exchange for goods or services, without any record other than an anonymous transaction on the blockchain. If criminals decide to conduct business this way, there is no way that anyone can stop them, and there is no need for them to convert that cryptocurrency back to fiat so long as it holds value. Having KYC for exchanges or wallet providers becomes a moot point when those criminals can create their own wallet to transfer and hold funds. If we are really being honest with ourselves, we have to ask…what REALLY is the point of such KYC requirements. I think we know.

[HyperScalper]

CRYPTO FUNGIBILITY AND REGULATORY THREATS

So I’ve been looking into Cryptos, and "custodial clouds"
like Coinbase. Apparently, if we consider BitCoin, if regulators
or the Poh-Lice want to, they can require Coinbase to freeze
any accounts wherein the BitCoin have been within a few
transactions of banned services such as Online Poker, or
possibly Porn, or even much worse illicit operations.

You, who happen to have the coin; are unaware of its
"shady history"… Thus, these coin would be “frozen” for you.

Hence the motivation for non-custodial or private wallets,
where you are the owner and custodian or your own Crypto,
along with the awesome responsibility to protect your stash.

TECHNICALLY, this means that BitCoin is not fungible because
"newly minted coin" without a history could become more
valuable than coin which have been in circulation and have
some (unintended) relationship to something which is BANNED.

Thus, the motivation to create XMR or Monero, which guarantees
the perfect fungibility of coins forever, regardless of their
prior circulation. That’s how cash is supposed to be; fully
fungible, and a dirty physical coin is worth the same as a
newly minted coin in commerce, in principle.

[EDIT] *DEFINITELY WATCH THIS AND YOU’LL BEGIN TO
UNDERSTAND SOME ISSUES:

ONE MORE VIDEO ON MONERO:

[EDIT] So I decided to make one of my servers a private
Monero Node but that takes maybe 24 hours to sync
the Monero blockchain . Once that’s done, then local
wallets can connect to that node for transactions. Now
that’s dedication !! LOL

hyperscalper

[Xanaphlaxes]

All I use crypto for is trading and investment.
I think it best to leave a very provable paper trail for offshore trading.

Leaving a good paper trail is one way to help prevent false associations.
Full stealth is another. I won’t go full stealth road unless we end up in Sherwood Forest.

[SmallPaul]

anything illegal helps the government further their cause and push for more regulations

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/professional-poker-player-pleads-guilty-092505131.html

[jack112forexdude]

Yes the AMLD5 is all bad news, its been the source of misery for me because my primary crypto exchange is almost certainly going to go full kyc 2020 jan1

the FATF laws for 2020 June are still hyper totalitarian as well and when i warn redditors about it they go full potato. The average crypto investor doesn’t understand any of the regulatory stuff we talk about. ANY.

The feds are moving towards another black friday poker crackdown on crypto. The ability to do everything offshore is in the absolute crosshairs of the FATF. They know and understand what crypto is for offshore finances, and you can absolutely guarentee yourself they are planning on trying to persecute non custodial wallet providers and developers with backdoors.

They have a plan to use smart contracts backdoored by the finance industry and state to create a virtual geofence closed garden system for tracking bitcoin and any non fungible currency mercillessly. Your bitcoin will be tagged and tracked and trapped.

The only way to avoid all this is monero. That’s it. IT’s the only safe coin. And the only way to wash btc. BTC has to be washed with monero to break the chain history. It’s the only full way. I’m sure the defense department is pouring millions into cracking monero cryptography. And it certainly isn’t because of criminals, it’s because of capital flight and tax evasion.

[Cryptosurf]

monero

Careful tho as Monero is under scrutiny for its privacy feature.

Another Crypto Exchange is Dropping Privacy Coin Monero Over Compliance Risk -...

[_METHOS]

Sigh. Of course it is.

People need to wake up. It used to be that you could barter for anything. No government involvement or regulatory enforcement. Quid pro quo. Now, anything that holds value is controlled and taxed, regardless of whether or not our government has anything to do with it or not. If people in this country started using jars of Russian dirt as currency, our government would figure out a way to control and tax it. With cryptocurrency, it is even worse, because it goes against the very autonomous nature of what bitcoin stands for, while going beyond control and taxation to completely destroying the anonymity and privacy that cryptocurrency was supposed to offer.

Requiring background checks does not stop criminals from procuring guns, just like requiring KYC will not stop criminals from using cryptocurrency.

[HyperScalper]

MONERO NODE

Well, I’m setting up a Monero node. Downloading the blockchain
takes a couple of days, and then I’m still fiddling the configuration
to join the Monero network; but it’s a start !!

Each node can choose to join a Peer to Peer P2P network, in
a similar way to Bit Torrent where multiple nodes contribute to
the overall functioning of the network. Just FYI.

[EDIT] I’d hasten to add that attempts to mine Monero
require specialized equipment, so I won’t be doing mining.
Apparently hardware to mine Monero is not nearly as
pricey as for BitCoin, but Crypto mining remains a mystery to me.

[EDIT2] I did check Coinexx and apparently they can pay out
in Monero, unless I’m mistaken there…

hyperscalper

[jessoprules]

Won’t that be the same for all crypto though?

[Cryptosurf]

Well it looks like governments have their sights set on coins that have privacy/anon features for now. Others they can monitor blockchain traffic. Remember that’s how they brought down Ross Ulbricht by tracking public blockchain transactions that led back to him.

[jessoprules]

Thanks for reply

[SmallPaul]

Thieves took $49 million in Ethereum from a crypto exchange

https://www.yahoo.com/news/2019-11-28-49-million-ethereum-theft.html