Going offshore to escape the CFTC

Broker Discussion Forex Brokers
2213

Well Dan, for me you already have shown your honor. I hope you can understand that we are basically brainstorming here to find a solution to a problem that affects all Americans, we are being discriminated against by the world brokers because of the tyranny of our government. It’s really a much bigger question than what is the best broker in a dwindling list of options.

We are trying to figure out how to retain what little we still have left. We are watching as an iron net is being cast over our people and are almost helpless to do anything about it. Banks world wide avoid US citizens like the plague. We are hurting and there isn’t anyone who we can call for help.

If you want to help, with your knowledge of what it is like on the other side of the table, how can Americans position themselves so that the broker is protected from the teeth of the dragon and we can just trade/invest the way we like without the dragon taking a bit out of us. I offered using an IBC from off shore, can you tell us if that is the only way to circumvent the current dilemma?

Thanks for your input…
Bob

2214

I would removed Investors Europe for the same reasons others mentioned as there is no room for them in this list. Those who subscribe to the idiocy of US regulations should be avoided as brokers altogether.

2215

Welcome to this thread, Danielle.

From what I have read in Erick’s posts, and on your website, Forex Nation certainly deserves an “honorable mention” (U.S. spelling). And, in the short time that we, on this thread, have known about Forex Nation, I hope that we have treated your firm with the respect you deserve.

But, you and we are on different paths. You are a foreign broker looking to attract a U.S. clientele by offering a top-notch service, while conforming to U.S. regulations. We, on this thread, are looking for foreign brokers who offer top-notch service, while operating completely outside U.S. regulations. Big difference.

So, while we like you immensely, and gladly give you an [I]Unofficial Honorable Mention,[/I] we really don’t have a place for you on our Offshore Broker List.

It’s nothing personal. It’s just the leverage thing, you see. And the FIFO thing. And the hedging thing.

And, at a higher level, it’s our sworn opposition to the CFTC’s long-term agenda for the retail forex business in the U.S. — their agenda being to destroy retail forex, as we know it, and replace it with exchange-traded spot currency “contracts”. But, that’s a whole 'nother issue.

2216

The NFA / CFTC are a lot like grave yards, they dress it up to look presentable but inside there is only death, decay and this really terrible odor.

2217

The LIST has been updated.

2218

I was browsing through the [B]Forex FS (Australia)[/B] website, and I came across this on their FAQ page:

  1. Where are your servers located?

Our servers are located in the US and Singapore. Our main server is located in New York- EQUINIX NY4.

I immediately wondered whether this “U.S. presence” on their part means that they are now under the thumb of the CFTC, and no longer accepting U.S. residents as clients. So, I went onto “live chat”, and got the answer I was hoping for:

Chat session started at 8:06:53 PM
Please be patient while you are being connected with an operator …
You are now chatting with Support
Support: Hello, how can I help?
You: Hello. I am a U.S resident, and I want to move my forex trading out of the U.S.
Do you accept U.S. residents as new clients?
[B]Support: We welcome all clients and will assess their application on its merits[/B]
You: Thank you. I will gather my documentation, and submit my application.
Support: Not a problem, please don’t hesitate to let us know if you need any assistance
You: Thanks again. Good-bye.

So, Forex FS (Australia) appears to belong where they are — in Group 1 on our List.

While I was on their website, I checked some of the information we show in our List, and found some updates —
a change in the platforms they offer, increases in their allowable leverage, and a tighter spread on GBP/JPY.
Those updates now appear in our List, highlighted in red.

2219

The Russian broker [B]TradeFort,[/B] operating out of St. Vincent and the Grenadines (in the Caribbean), has recently begun posting on this forum.

As you may recall, we list TradeFort in Group 2 on our List of Offshore Brokers, and they have confirmed that they belong in Group 2.

2220

Some more to Group 1. They do accept U.S. clients. However, need to do more research as far as regulations etc.,

ForexCENT
Forex FS
PellucidFX
FXVV
FXGlory
FortuneFX
Liteforex
FXUP ME

2221

All of the brokers you have mentioned (except FortuneFX) are already on our List. — Have you read the List?

Regarding [B]FortuneFX[/B], their website is the most pathetic forex broker site I’ve ever visited. The site doesn’t reveal where they are domiciled, how they are regulated, or whether they are even a primary broker. I suspect that they are an IB for DeltaStock (which does not accept U.S. residents) — but there’s no way to tell, without contacting them directly, which I’m not going to waste my time doing.

2222

Clint, you got the wrong website for FortuneFX. Their website is www dot fortune4x dot com. According to their live chat, they do accept U.S. clients. I also had live chat with Liteforex and FXUP ME and they did confirm that they do accept U.S. clients. Once again, I have not done any regulatory investigation as I really do not understand it and I will leave it to the pros. Sorry can’t put links as I have not yet met the post requirements.

2223

Great thread!

2224

[I]I[/I] got the wrong website?

Apparently, Fortune[U]FX[/U] (which [I]you[/I] posted previously) is not Fortune[U]4x.[/U]

The website that you are [I]now[/I] sending me to clearly states that [B]they do not accept U.S. clients.[/B]

Here’s a screen-shot from the Fortune4x Question and Answer page —

The next time you chat with Fortune4x, you should ask them about this discrepancy.

2225

My sincere thanks again for the thread… I use it as a guide for choosing brokers, and to get a good handle on the industry from the ground.

I’m about to open a live account with Forex FS but have been doing some research and haven’t been able to find much on the webs regarding reviews / complaints (final round of due diligence). Furthermore, I tried to look up their regulatory compliance but apparently in Australia you have to pay to get in-depth info regarding broker compliance (something that the FTC provides for free).

Do you (or anyone following this thread) happen to know of anyone who has tried out or is currently using Forex FS? Just wondering if they are fair to clients… fair practices, proper transfer of funds [B](back to clients)[/B], slippage, etc.

Thanks again for your outstanding work.

Solidus

2226

Hello solidus,

You should search previous Babypips threads and posts for info on [B]Forex FS[/B] (if you haven’t done this, already).

There are two [I]Search[/I] boxes at the top of this page (and every Babypips page). Use the upper one.

Type in [I]forex fs[/I] (note that capitalization doesn’t matter when you’re using the [I]Search[/I] feature), and click the “magnifying glass” icon. You’ll get several pages of Babypips posts in which that broker has been mentioned or reviewed.

2227

Apparently [B]PaxForex[/B] has moved their head office from British Virgin Islands to Seychelles within the past 18 months.

Back in April 2012, [I]GypsyTrader[/I] did an extensive investigation into PaxForex, and reported his findings in post #1412 in this thread. He reported at that time that PaxForex had their head office in Tortola, BVI. Currently, the PaxForex website lists their head office at an address in Seychelles.

Accordingly, I have moved PaxForex to the “Mediterranean / Middle East / Africa” section of our List (page #1).

2228

So this is possibly a left-field question, but I am curious of the possible reaction:

CFTC, the reason they regulate the rules in the United States is because they are …(fill in the blanks)?

Well instead of just attempting to go offshore as these posts are implying here’s a question of wanting to know what has been attempted or tried to be suggested and pushed higher in the rules making system.

HAVE ANY OF THESE QUESTIONS BEEN ASKED?

Have a distinction between brokerages who are out to offer limited services to their clients for trading recommendations, reviews, and actual advice… (Let them maintain the current CFTC trade rules and regulations.)

And have the brokerages (I suppose brokerages changing to this procedure?) charge some sort of nominal upfront fee that has the option of being paid upfront or monthly/annually for making it a requirement before someone even opens up an account to provide a back-tested proven knowledge test of different trading methods to trade, and provide actual examples of each method applied in a situation provided either by the new client or brokerage (or both), and upon different profit/loss situations that have taken place for the client have the brokerage review the actual account (brokerage freeze the trading abilities until) to ensure the knowledge of how to properly trade has its merits and there is not just a random, I’m going to gamble with losses until I lose everything type of mentality. If there is such a persistent and consistent trader non-the-less then put them under the thumb of the CFTC, but if they (the client) proves they know what they are doing, lift the margin trading margin requirements and if the CFTC wants to add some additional revenue to the already suffering United States Treasury Budget, now incur an additional .001 pip taxation on all complete round travel transactions to pay for the additional funds it cost to change this rule and use the rest of the taxes on everything else.

Has anything of this type of rules-requested change been submitted up for review and debate to show that the ones who know and have proven they know what they are doing shouldn’t be under the CFTC’s new margin requirement changes?

After all, what works best, fussing moaning complaining about procedures that suck, or attempt to change what has already been changed because someone assumes that all traders are the same and didn’t really listen to any recommendations of why to keep the margin requirements the same due to lack of actual feedback or data provided except massive percentages of trade losses?

Make the Market Movers/Makers be the ones who are still under the CFTC, but not everyone else who is not as big.

If this has not been pushed up to be changed, can someone provide directions on how and who to contact and what needs to take place for it to be fixed?

After-all, would a hunter want to have an animal rights activist change every single rule a hunter has without hearing and debating the whole situation before the final ruling authorities who don’t care? (Just using an example…)

I guess what I am attempting to say is this, allow the smaller individuals to have more breathing room while the larger institutions, larger individuals, and etc… be scaled down to not be allowed to trade with the same margin trading leverage so that they are unable to affect the everyday smaller trader as much for financial risks and as such…

Very Respectfully,
David Clemons

2229

David, you seem intent on changing the agenda and the methods of the CFTC. You posted some complex suggestions along these lines several months ago, and now you’re back with your latest proposal.

And you and I have been down this path already. Do you remember these posts?

#1286, #1287, #1291, #1292, #1293, and #1294

I don’t think you clearly understand the mandate of the CFTC, or the reasons why they insist on overstepping the limits of their mandate in the case of retail forex regulation.

In a nutshell, the CFTC has been regulating exchange-traded commodity futures for a very long time, and generally they do a good job of it. Almost all of their regulatory actions in that arena have been to crack down on fraud, and abuses of various sorts, and that’s precisely what a good regulator should do.

But, retail forex is a different breed of cat altogether.

[B]For starters, retail forex is an off-exchange-traded market — and the CFTC hates that.[/B] They would do almost anything to force U.S. retail forex trading to conform to commodity-futures-style rules and contract specifications, and be conducted entirely on a “forex exchange”. All of which would be totally unworkable.

The CFTC cannot, or will not, accept the fact that [B]identical retail forex contracts trade simultaneously all over the world[/B] — beyond CFTC regulatory control — unlike U.S. exchange-traded commodity futures.

The CFTC has dictatorial control over U.S. commodity futures trading, and they lust after the same sort of control over the world forex market. Which is why I frequently accuse them of behaving like the World Forex Police. The prime example of this is their assault on any offshore forex broker who has the [I]audacity[/I] to offer American residents better trading conditions than they (the CFTC) allow U.S. brokers to offer.

How will all of this resolve itself over the next several years? I don’t think anyone can predict.

When the CFTC cracks down on fraud and abuse in the retail forex market, we all applaud. But, when they go beyond that straightforward, common-sense mandate, and try to seize control of a world market in which they have no business meddling, then Americans who value free markets and freedom of choice should fight the CFTC at every turn.

I don’t even understand most of your suggestions. But, if they have any merit, they should be directed to your congressman, not to this forum, and not to the CFTC. Congress empowers (and controls) the CFTC.

We, here on this forum, have virtually no influence over the agenda of the CFTC.

As for the CFTC themselves, they have no inclination to voluntarily give up any of their power, or any of their grand ambitions.

2230

WITHDRAWALS

I am interesting in knowing how withdrawals work for any of the brokers on this list. I am particularly interested in knowing how the process went with ProfiForex (Profiforex Forex Broker).

I have an account with them but have not made any money in that account so no withdrawal yet.

The only other broker I have used on the list is ForexBrokersInc and I have made several withdrawals with them - both via credit card and wire transfer. Both take 2-3 days depending on the time of day your request gets submitted. No problems at all.

So please share your experiences withdrawing profits from your broker. Thanks in advance.

Cheers!

2231

Well, if no one else is going to answer enochbenjamin, I guess I’ll say a few words. I think most brokers know that one of the worst mistakes they can make is not returning all the money legitimately requested or taking too long to give it back. So I think withdrawals are usually not a problem to be concerned about unless many online reviews warn about a particular broker. The most money I ever withdrew from a broker was from FXCM before they caved in to the Dodd-Frank lower leverage demands. I withdrew using roughly $300 to $3,300 checks from them, which usually required about 4 or 5 days to receive, which was okay with me. More recently I think I made small withdrawals from FxGlory, Tradersway and Arab Financial brokers in which they added money to my credit card or PayPal within 1-3 days. If you ever start making big buck withdrawals though, try to keep them above $10,000 each since the IRS/feds have been known to simply grab and permanently keep part or all of a bank deposit (made by completely innocent, very law abiding people) which they claim breaks the “structuring” law. That law is designed to help catch money launderers trying to get around the automatic bank to feds notification of deposits of $10,000 or more. Sometimes the crooks will make a large number of small deposits each less than 10 grand to avoid those notifications. The feds sometimes think those smaller deposits are a tipoff for criminal activity. If the feds rip you off, you have no recourse since I think the “structuring” law was written in a way that makes the feds immune to lawsuits.

2232

I was able to convince FXCM to transfer my account to their UK branch. Yay hedging! It was easy and painless. I don’t know if FXCM UK accepts new accounts from US clients, but internal transfers to the UK from the US don’t seem to be a problem.