Going offshore to escape the CFTC

Broker Discussion Forex Brokers
3240

Yeah, I was initially attracted by cTrader and their open API, but only TradersWay in the group offers this, and I can’t put all my eggs in that one basket. So with the permanent dominance of MT4, I swallowed that and decided to build on MT4 as the execution engine and most likely use Java to NJ4X (or roll my own) so that I can use any of these brokers, should there be an issue. However, I don’t think I’d want to spread trading amongst all of them at any given time. Picked up a 16 thread Xeon system with 24gb memory in Linux through DataShack.net, so now I can begin the server-side layering of the ATS onto MT4.

Like most of you, I am so bummed about the USA and the regulatory policies which have turned the entire world against us. Major respect to Clint for maintaining this thread, and giving us options.

HyperScalper

3241

Your issue will always be “KYC” Know your Client, and the requirement to discover the ultimate Beneficiaries of the Entity. When any one is discovered to be a U.S. person, then no deal. That, at least, is the superficial understanding. Now if you have $5million plus to throw around, then “deals” could be made, I’m quite sure…

HyperScalper

3242

If you have $5m to throw around then you don’t really need to do deals - almost any broker will talk to you.

Persons able to demonstrate high net worth are exempted from the “no US residents” rules that apply the average guy …most likely on the basis that “Richie Rich”, who inherited $x million from his parents, is much more financially astute than “Joe Shmoe” who had to make his own money!

3243

Regarding swap rates. Can anyone post current live swap rates with Tallinex and FxChoice ? I have been with TradersWay for a few months now and am overall pleased with all aspects of execution and customer service but the swap rates are terrible !
AU: 1.61 long, -10.14 short
EU: -4.55. -2.21
GU: -2.6, -6.5
UJ: -2.34, -4.55
NU: +3.15, -14.04
UC: -5.98, -2.47

3244

Oanda doubles the maximum allowable leverage they offer, from 50:1 to 100:1 —

— unless, of course, you happen to reside in the over-regulated U.S.,

in which case you’re stuck with your crappy 50:1 maximum allowable leverage

(until such time as the CFTC decides to lower your leverage again).

OANDA Doubles Leverage Citing “Client Demand” | Finance Magnates

.

3245

Why not just keep the bulk of your trading account in your US based financial institution. Keep a small % in your offshore trading account (say 10K) in this case. With an account of that size I seriously doubt you’re up against margin constraints. If you need additional funds in account it’s an almost instantaneous transaction to transfer more over (at least with TradersWay and I assume others).
Then you can sweep your “profits” into your bank account weekly, monthly or whatever.
That’s one of the big advantages of offshore over US based. Even if you aren’t using the high leverage for trading, it allows you to keep a much smaller bank roll in the trading account but still use the “balance” in your bank as part of your trading “capital”

3246

Truthfully, all of these “tactics” are pretty pointless if you have a trustworthy off-shore broker, and if you DON’T trust your broker then you’re a fool for even having an account with them!

3247

[QUOTE=“Tallinex;715494”]If you have $5m to throw around then you don’t really need to do deals - almost any broker will talk to you. Persons able to demonstrate high net worth are exempted from the “no US residents” rules that apply the average guy …most likely on the basis that “Richie Rich”, who inherited $x million from his parents, is much more financially astute than “Joe Shmoe” who had to make his own money![/QUOTE] When I had ACM, trading $1m+ required a lot more paperwork per transaction. They dropped me in 2010 and I had a size able account with them and swissquote at the time. Before swissquote bought out ACM

3248

[QUOTE=“Tallinex;716715”] Truthfully, all of these “tactics” are pretty pointless if you have a trustworthy off-shore broker, and if you DON’T trust your broker then you’re a fool for even having an account with them![/QUOTE]

Agreed, primary reason I use multiple brokers is for liquidity. I opened a Tallinex account awhile back. Just haven’t funded it yet.

3249

Shame on you!! :slight_smile:

3250

I would be interested in signing up. However, you don’t offer historical tick data to import. EA backtests will never be accurate.

3251

That’s hardly a reason - the same pretty-much applies to every MT4 broker that ever was, and ever will be… and EA back-tests are never, ever accurate anyway!

For a start, MT4 does NOT store tick data - it stores M1 data as open/high/low/close - all “ticks” seen in the strategy tester are computed and, therefore, inaccurate.

The closest you will ever come to back-testing “real prices” from your broker is to install a new copy of MT4 into a new folder and then run a back-test for the most recent 8 weeks.

This is because MT4 servers typically only retain the most recent 8 weeks of M1 data.

However, you should not confuse this data (which does actually come from your broker’s trade server) with the data available via the F2 History Center.

The History Center data is an amalgam of intermittent price feeds from a few larger MT4 brokers (which is why you see a warning about data not being representative of your broker’s pricing when you try to download it) and is absolutely the worst quality data in the universe! If you use one of the freely-available data analysers for MT4 then you’ll discover that it contains hundreds of holes and gaps (some lasting 12+ weeks) on every time frame of every pair.

Tallinex MT4 is unable to download this data because MetaQuotes refuses to update their data repository to handle suffixed symbol names (i.e. EURUSDecn), meaning that many brokers are in the same situation as suffixes are widely used to differentiate symbol characteristics.

Depending on how you view things (the convenience of the in-built data downloader against the abysmal quality of the data actually downloaded), this restriction may or may not be a bad thing.

Realistically, the only way to perform good-quality back-tests with MT4 is to use tick data, and there are three products which offer that:

  1. StrategyQuant’s tick downloader (free)

    • importing into MT4 must be done manually

  2. Tickstory (about $25 whenever an MT4 update breaks something)

    • importing is automated and will reflect your broker’s spreads

  3. Birt’s tick data suite ($97 + $10 subscription to cover updates)

    • importing is automated, will reflect your broker’s spreads, and offers variable spreads
      during tests i.e. spread will automatically widen during the Asian session, etc.

(Google each of them for full details)

All of the above create tick data (taken from Dukascopy) that can be used with MT4 to obtain 99.9% modelling quality back-tests - much better than the 90% maximum using M1 data, and infinitely better than any results obtained with standard History Center data!

3252

Well, “trust” is a relative term. That, I think, is the point of this thread. We’re all concerned about what Broker to “trust”, be they offshore or US based. We do our due diligence, but at the end of the day, there is only so much vetting we can do, so eventually we have to “trust” the one or ones we select. Even upon making that decision, there are still “tactics” that we can use to further protect our investment…I wouldn’t deem these pointless.

And even if we totally trust our Broker (can’t imagine how that could be…I mean I wouldn’t have them babysit my grandkids) things happen to financial institutions, and even the most well intentioned Brokers can run into trouble. I’d just rather not have by whole trading capital taken down if such an event were to transpire. :57:

3253

[QUOTE=“Tallinex;717139”] Shame on you!! :-)[/QUOTE] I’m in it!

3254

I’ve been with ProfiForex for about 6 months with live accounts. I am so pleased with them that I felt compelled to create an account here and post. Deposits/Withdrawals are very quick. Never a single “issue”. I’ve always gotten great support. Their webterminal is a bit bare but it’s good enough when on the road to modify a trade here and there. But that’s not the best part…

[I](start mini-rant)[/I] The best part about ProfiForex is that they do not invade our privacy by asking for documentation. I was really surprised at how many posters found it “suspicious” that Profi didn’t verify identity. You folks have been so brainwashed and enslaved by your masters that you don’t realize that Profi is actually protecting your privacy for you. By looking for/rewarding “regulation” and “verification”… Do you really think politicians, bureaucrats and corporate cartels “regulate” and “verify” to protect [I]you[/I]?!? Please… take the red pill and[B][I] wake up[/I][/B]! (end mini-rant) :60:

[B]U.S. Gov. Gorilla:[/B][I] Profi… Hand over all U.S. citizen information immediately. We rule the world. You are forbidden to… blah, blah, blah…[/I]

[B]ProfiForex:[/B][I]We don’t collect any information from our clients, therefore we don’t know if we have any US citizens[/I]

[B]U.S. Gov. Gorilla:[/B][I]You must… We demand… Remember Saddam? You want to be next?[/I]

[B]ProfiForex:[/B][I] Again. We don’t collect customer information, so we have nothing to give you. [/I]

[B]U.S. Gov. Gorilla:[/B] [I]You must die[/I]

[B]ProfiForex:[/B] [I]Thank you for contacting ProfiForex. Have a nice day! [/I]

Additional Broker for your review:[B] SimpleFX[/B] They offer Bitcoin denominated accounts to US citizens. 500:1 leverage on FX. Most curencies. They also have Gold, Oil, indexes, etc… Min deposit: 1 BTC. Moving money in/out is a breeze. Support is excellent. Very snappy platform. Overall, this broker keeps it simple yet offers a lot of great features. Please note that they are a fairly new broker. Incorp. St. Vincent & Grenadines. Most likely unregulated - which is a [B]good[/B] thing!

[B]CAUTION!!![/B] (certain) U.S. citizens… you might have an epileptic seizure by reading any further.

SimpleFx does [B]not[/B] ask for identity verification for BTC accounts. You give them your email, send in the bitcoin and start trading. Literally, within 15 minutes. How’s that for Freedom?!? :35:

3255

Although it may sound great to hear that certain brokers don’t ask for ID or other verifications, the implications are quite far-reaching.

This is much less a case of “sticking 2 fingers up at the US”, and much more a case of significant (and deliberate) failings in terms of adhering to anti-money laundering legislation - something adopted by the entire international community.

The upshot of ignoring such a base requirement is the likely prosecution of the brokerage and, before that, suspension of any/all banking and fund transfer facilities. The latter being the most worrying as, if you haven’t proven who you are (and your broker can’t as they never requested ID), your funds will simply end up frozen by the banks.

Ultimately, there’s really no justifiable excuse for breaching a law that’s enforced in literally every jurisdiction - eGold tried the same thing by arguing that they had no need to obtain ID because the banks and exchanges had already done verification checks, and we all know where eGold are now… and millions of dollars of unverified bullion ended up the property of Uncle Sam - now sitting safely in Fort Knox!

The bottom line is quite simple - if a Forex broker wants to accept US residents then it should incorporate in a jurisdiction that allows US residents to trade Forex… it’s not rocket science. Attempting to circumvent one regulation (which can legally be achieved with ease) by breaking a more significant law is irresponsible to the extreme.

It’s hard enough to maintain good banking arrangements as it is, and the number of US-friendly jurisdictions is not that large, so brokers playing these stupid games not only risk being shut down / prosecuted and put their clients’ funds at risk, their actions bring unwanted attention to the industry and bring about changes in banking acceptance and jurisdictional law that impact all brokers and run the risk of US residents becoming unwelcome in the few remaining jurisdictions.

3256

[B]@Tallinex. [/B]You are a broker, correct? Therefore, it is in your best interest to put down the practices of other brokers. In fact, you have a total conflict of interest by even posting here, since you’d never genuinely say positive things about other broker’s practices.

Your reply is obviously (utterly) biased in defense of your industry and maintaining the status quo. But things are changing. People are demanding more privacy. You are defending the legacy [I](old, outdated, antiquated)[/I] financial system which is the very reason this thread exists ("…escape CFTC…"). But that’s a discussion for a different thread. :21:

Back on topic… Again, there was a request for more feedback, so +1 for ProfiForex.

Also, adding to info on SimpleFX - They [I]do[/I] take U.S. citizens for BTC denominated accounts. They do [I]not[/I] take U.S. citizens for fiat accounts.

3257

I don’t know who you are. You may be a public relations agent for ProfiForex. Or not. Time will tell.

I do know who Paul Callen is. He’s the Tallinex rep who — you said — has a “conflict of interest” by posting in this thread. I can assure you that there is no conflict of interest. Paul is welcome here, as is the representative of any other offshore broker who wants to establish and nurture a broker/client relationship with readers of this thread. And, of course, that includes ProfiForex.

I am not speaking as a representative of Babypips, because I don’t represent the owners, administrators or moderators of this site. I am speaking as the originator of this thread. If the administrators of the Babypips site ever have reason to question the usefulness of this thread, or the participation of any broker representative who chooses to post here, I’m sure that I will be the first to hear of it. In other words, if there is ever a “conflict of interest” in this thread, that determination will be made by Babypips, not by you.

In the meantime, Paul Callen (representing Tallinex) is more than welcome here — as is any other offshore broker rep who wants to contribute to this thread.

It’s curious that you — as a ProfiForex customer who simply wants to put in a good word for his broker — would come onto this thread with the attitude that you have displayed here. Which leads me to suspect that you are something other than just a satisfied ProfiForex client.

3258

I don’t think any company’s public relations would benefit from my combative nature :slight_smile: Nah. I am a full-time trader of +/-15 years and I am angry that U.S. policies have destroyed my livelihood. I came to this thread looking for alternatives and found hope.

This thread used to be about traders sharing their experiences with various brokers and you (with helpers) have done an outstanding job keeping it up to date.

But have you noticed how little new feedback it’s been getting lately? (example… There are 4 offshore brokers who accept U.S. clients right now that are [I]not[/I] on your list. I believe it’s because this thread went from being about information sharing on [I]all[/I] broker into a Tallinex recruitment tool. What is the point of discussing other brokers, with a Tallinex rep shooting it down? [I](it’s not about Tallinex. It’s about the principle)[/I]

I’ve stepped on your friend’s toes and you didn’t like it. I understand and won’t post any more. Good day.

3259

Thank you cuatronio, I find it useful to hear about Simplefx Bitcoin denominated accounts. I am hoping they are successful and more follow, do you have an account with simplefx? While at first glance it looks like a clear conflict of interest, however, I have found a lot of the posts by Tallinex to be informative and it’ can be useful to have someone that can express the brokers point of view. The ideal situation would be to have the other brokers also come in here and counter any information that seems suspect. I see FX choice is quite active on peace army about any complaints. I would love to hear about the other brokers that are currently missing from the line up.