Going offshore to escape the CFTC

Broker Discussion Forex Brokers
3956

Hi,

So I had some time to get back over to the UK and our FinProTrading.com
(aka TurnkeyFX) for some performance testing, as they had several months
ago said they had “low latency” accounts.

Our software maintains a histogram of Order Operation latencies, so it’s
very easy to see. WOW ! Even with our 100 msec “ping” latency from our
Miami based server from ServerPronto.com (no intention of being unduly
commercial, but can recommend these guys, since they have “POPs” or
points or presence around the globe…). FinProTrading places limit orders
at an overall round-trip latency of 160 msecs (minus the 100 ping time)
so they’re taking 60 msecs on their end…

And they “flood” our software with Tick data, roughly 4x the incoming tick
data of an ordinary broker. I had to dig in and optimize the Tick processing
across our 28 Forex Currency Pairs, to handle the load.

So, if you are a “latency sensitive” client, FinProTrading.com MT4 ECN variable
spread accounts are really excellent for SCALPERS. My main trading style is
not scalping, but let’s say I have an overall position using 10 separate
price entries, giving me a VWAP Entry price, and then I want to close
ALL 10 of those positions, then LATENCY MATTERS. In my case, the Java
uses NJ4X.com API with a “pool” of about 3 terminal.exe processes which
do “overlapping” or “parallel” Order processing, which means we can
close things “pronto” :))

ONE MORE THING. And here I need to be discreet, since many brokers who
are U.S. friendly really NEED to keep some details confidential and do not
want everything in the blinding light of day. Wink wink !!! :slight_smile:

PLEASE REQUEST FROM YOUR BROKER things like better leverages, or even
better performance. Believe me, they will work with you and they can
certainly deliver…

IF YOU ARE DEVELOPING A significant trading operation, these brokerages
very much value your business, in general, and they will work with you
on technical and on Funding issues; but they MAY NOT want to make all
of that information public on this forum, as is should remain private to
their clients.

I can certainly understand their position, given the relentless pressure which
CFTC intends to place on their business and livelihoods… So don’t be afraid
to contact them, and request preferential treatment. In many cases, you’ll
be amazed what they can do for you :slight_smile:

hyperscalper

3957

Hi HyperScalper - are you moving away from manual scalping then?

3958

A mix of both, de-emphasizing very short term trades because, after all is said and
done, it takes TIME for prices to move significantly. And also because I’ve put so much
into our Currency Strength analytics, which is best for moves from 8 hours to 2 days or so…

But I guess what is unusual about the Currency Strength is that it can also be used for scalping,
for 10-15 pips or so, either with automatic triggers; or manual ones.

So the real answer is, it’s a “mix” of the two; but certainly in the area of Trade Management,
that’s where I need the 24x7 Position Management monitoring and profit taking, so that’s
auto-magic across the 28 Currency Pairs :slight_smile:

The most significant reason for getting away from Manual Trading is the “scalability” of the
operation, and the fact that a trader (being mostly human) is unable to watch over positions
24x7 and keep the trades straight… Can’t get rich using manual trading, IMHO :slight_smile:

To keep this relevant to the CFTC thread, there’s no doubt that 1000:1 or 500:1 beats
50:1 hands down !! But remember “with great power comes great responsibility” :slight_smile:
[edited for a typo…]

hyperscalper

3960

HEY GUYS, why not post intelligent items? FinProTrading.com (aka TurnkeyFX) has a fast,
tight, stable data feed for the 28 major Forex pairs. WTF are you talking about??? At this
very moment, I’m using a FinProTrading.com ECN account, and they do not “f*ck” with their
data feed. Geez, guyz . I do not know anything yet about Profiforex, so I can’t say, but for
Tradersway.com and FinProTrading.com for FOREX, they are very hard to beat. Here’s a
screenshot showing their pricing GBP/JPY, and this is just after the recent BOE GBP rate announcement…
They have 60 millisecond order placement times, when you subtract out the 100 msec ping times from
my Miami server, etc… and 400:1 leverage, the list goes on…
[ EDIT: oops my account number leaked onto the image… :(]

FinProTradingMT4-GBPJPY.jpg700×469 73.2 KB

hyperscalper

FinProTradingMT4-GBPJPY.jpg700×469 73.3 KB

3961

CLINT: please delete one of those images on the prior post.
Pls get rid of the inline image and keep the attachment, I guess.
I couldn’t figure out how to do it… :frowning: hyperscalper

3962

For me, there’s a great attraction to have second-by-second control over trades, and to be
able to predict what the market’s going to do in the next 60-90 seconds. BUT… HEAR THIS:
that is absolutely not the way to make lots of $$$$$ even if you could do it !! As my views
on the Forex market matured, and with a lot of suffering and literally thousands of lines
of code trying to implement this “control freak” approach… after all that, my view is that
it is not the way to get rich.

So I’ve come to believe now that the trades which “normal” traders want, the ones that
move 50-150 PIPs over a day or two; that’s where the real money is. And so, although it’s
hard for some of us, we have to give up that “control freak” obsession and fear which
motivates an attempt to control the trade and “surf the wiggles”.

The most basic thing which was always in the back of my mind, is that “it takes time
for price to move”. That is really the Achilles heel of all scalping. Small moves require
large positions, with what is probably unachievable accuracy in order to make money;
and it will wear out even a younger trader, not to mention those of us who are staring
retirement in the face.

I’d love to make this post relevant to the CFTC topic, but all I can say is that usage of
the offshore brokerages preserves what is best about Forex trading; and the solid
contribution of MetaTrader over all these years (which is showing its age); IRONICALLY
became the bedrock of the new software I wrote to manage trades.

Since it takes time for price to move, there are really only TWO things which are
important:

  1. Being able to predict the future consistently.
  2. Managing positions over longer periods of time.

#2 is fairly easy to automate; but #1 is the Holy Grail we’re all looking for.

It is undeniable that in Forex prices move because of “fundamental” relationships
among the world’s major Currencies. So Currency Strength Analysis, simply has
to be the best way to approach things; not analysis of short term "Depth of Market"
or Spike Analysis or Order Flow Analysis or any of those other things. I think I’ve
found my Holy Grail; and now it’s just a matter of scaling a business, etc… and
these offshore brokers are a key way to achieve leverage and functionality which
has been driven out of the U.S. by over-regulation. THIS THREAD has really been
a life saver for me, personally, and I thank Clint for all this effort !!

Just my 2 cents. In conclusion, U.S. people: SUPPORT these offshore brokerages
which allow us to trade Forex as it was meant to be traded !!!

hyperscalper

3963

Minimum, average and maximum spreads
observered over a period of time. These
are MetaTrader 4 ECN Variable Spreads
accounts plus commission. As you can
see, sometimes spreads are very narrow.

This means that Market orders will get
good pricing, but I always recommend using
Limit orders for guaranteed pricing.

Response latencies for these brokerages can
be quite quick. Contact the brokerage for
details, as they will help you to get the
best performance.

With 100 msecs ping roundtrip times
included, we see Limit order placement
times <250 msecs and with FinProTrading,
we see around 160 msecs.

These brokers are flexible and U.S. friendly,
so they can accommodate most of your
requirements.

Tradersway Bid/Ask Spreads
symbol min , avg , max spread pips
AUDCAD, 0.6 , 1.2 , 1.7 #
AUDCHF, 1.0 , 1.3 , 1.8 #
AUDJPY, 0.1 , 0.6 , 1.0 #
AUDNZD, 0.5 , 1.1 , 1.7 #
AUDUSD, 0.3 , 0.6 , 0.8 #
CADCHF, 1.5 , 1.8 , 2.4 ##
CADJPY, 0.6 , 0.9 , 1.2 #
CHFJPY, 0.8 , 1.3 , 2.1 #
EURAUD, 0.3 , 1.0 , 1.7 #
EURCAD, 0.7 , 1.3 , 1.7 #
EURCHF, 0.5 , 0.9 , 1.4 #
EURGBP, 0.4 , 0.6 , 0.9 #
EURJPY, 0.8 , 1.1 , 1.5 #
EURNZD, 1.4 , 2.3 , 3.2 ##
EURUSD, 0.1 , 0.3 , 0.5
GBPAUD, 0.9 , 2.0 , 2.5 ##
GBPCAD, 1.6 , 2.1 , 2.6 ##
GBPCHF, 1.2 , 1.8 , 2.5 ##
GBPJPY, 0.7 , 1.2 , 1.6 #
GBPNZD, 2.3 , 3.4 , 5.0 ###
GBPUSD, 0.5 , 0.9 , 1.1 #
NZDCAD, 3.2 , 3.7 , 4.3 ####
NZDCHF, 2.9 , 3.3 , 4.3 ###
NZDJPY, 2.5 , 2.9 , 3.2 ###
NZDUSD, 0.6 , 1.0 , 1.5 #
USDCAD, 0.5 , 0.9 , 1.1 #
USDCHF, 0.5 , 0.9 , 1.3 #
USDJPY, 0.2 , 0.5 , 0.7

FinProTrading (aka TurnkeyFX) Bid/Ask Spreads
symbol min , avg , max spread pips
AUDCAD, 0.8 , 1.6 , 2.3 ##
AUDCHF, 0.8 , 1.5 , 2.6 ##
AUDJPY, 0.4 , 1.0 , 1.4 #
AUDNZD, 0.5 , 1.7 , 2.5 ##
AUDUSD, 0.1 , 0.5 , 0.8 #
CADCHF, 0.7 , 1.8 , 2.7 ##
CADJPY, 0.7 , 1.5 , 2.6 ##
CHFJPY, 1.5 , 2.2 , 2.9 ##
EURAUD, 1.0 , 1.7 , 2.2 ##
EURCAD, 1.2 , 1.9 , 2.5 ##
EURCHF, 0.2 , 0.8 , 1.4 #
EURGBP, 0.1 , 0.7 , 1.1 #
EURJPY, 0.1 , 0.6 , 1.0 #
EURNZD, 1.6 , 3.4 , 4.0 ###
EURUSD, 0.1 , 0.3 , 0.4
GBPAUD, 1.9 , 2.9 , 3.7 ###
GBPCAD, 1.9 , 3.0 , 3.8 ###
GBPCHF, 1.1 , 2.3 , 3.4 ##
GBPJPY, 1.3 , 1.9 , 2.5 ##
GBPNZD, 3.6 , 5.5 , 7.8 #####
GBPUSD, 0.3 , 0.9 , 1.4 #
NZDCAD, 1.7 , 2.9 , 4.0 ###
NZDCHF, 1.2 , 2.3 , 4.0 ##
NZDJPY, 1.4 , 2.1 , 2.8 ##
NZDUSD, 0.6 , 1.1 , 1.3 #
USDCAD, 0.2 , 0.7 , 1.2 #
USDCHF, 0.3 , 0.7 , 1.1 #
USDJPY, 0.1 , 0.4 , 0.6

hyperscalper

3964

Hey everyone…new to the forum and somewhat new to trading. So I’ve been using FXCM for awhile. I’m a US resident and have no issues as of yet. But…I would like to get into and know more about other things such as trading gold, oil, s&p. I also would like more leverage over the 50:1.

I hear a lot of great things about Traders Way, LMFX and Tallinex but not sure where I want to go and how they’re deposit and withdraw processes are. I don’t scalp so I’m not concerned about a tiny delay in order or a 1pip difference. I’m more concerned about where things are headed here in the US and nervous about shifting my account to someone offshore and what that will mean for me legally, taxes, etc.

I appreciate any tips, links, info to sort through all the noise.

1 Like
3965

I’m going to pardon your ignorance of my particular situation and simply explain what happened.

FinPro had two major series of data outages with their CFD feed - it only affected the DAX from all that I could gather, and I was keeping tabs on all their CFDs to see if it was just a one-off issue, global, etc.

The first incident they claimed fully with open arms as their own fault. I sent the logs that I had to prove it was not a connection issue on my side, that I couldn’t execute trades, etc. I took some losses that they credited within hours, to my satisfaction.

About three to four days later, it happened again, and much worse. DAX was out yet again after NFP. I couldn’t get any trades off (I had open positions I was trying to kill) and they denied any wrongdoing.

So, I sent all of my findings to my bank since I’d funded with my debit card, and issued a chargeback. My bank found me to be in the right and took the original deposit back from the merchant. So please think about it the next time you’re going to ask people to make intelligent statements and consider making one of your own.

It was disheartening to see that kind of reply from you, since you’ve given so much valuable input into this thread otherwise. Hopefully it was just a one-off / ignorance / etc.

3966

SORRY, but all of my comments are restricted to FOREX, and not to any other feeds or
instruments like DAX, etc. So I think that’s why I made my comments; I did not realize
you were talking about NON-FOREX instruments. Please accept my apology for strongly
supporting FinProTrading.com from my experiences so far.

Let’s stipulate that we are both “intelligent” and that should settle things :slight_smile:

hyperscalper

3967

If you are concerned about execution speed at Tradersway, and you need much shorter
latencies, contact Joe Carney and explain the situation. Would shorter latencies make you
a loyal customer for the brokerage in question? If so, then they will be very helpful in
addressing your concerns.

However, if you are just “shopping around” then perhaps you can’t expect any forms of
special client status accommodation. I hope you’re understanding what I’m hinting at…

hyperscalper

3968

Yeah, thanks. I spent some time working on the issue with Joe, nothing major but enough to know that I’m not getting any faster than 0.8 seconds for a fill. I can get 4x faster executions elsewhere. Otherwise I would love TW, and I still find them to be a solid choice.

thanks for the clarifications on the other post, btw.

3969

OK, let’s say you can’t get any faster. (I suspect that’s not true…) So, the real question is,
what are you really doing that needs faster fills ? If you use Limits, the latency issue is
diminished somewhat. But, as I said previously, if you are a loyal client who is able to
bring a solid business to TW, then your issue can be resolved. I am not allowed to give
any more details… :slight_smile: hyperscalper

My software measures performance, something like this:
Task: SimpleBuyLimit EURUSDi lots: 0.01 price: 1.11498 serial number [ 1 ] started.
Buy Limit Ticket #17936684 submitted.
OrderOp elapsed: 234 msec
task: SimpleBuyLimit EURUSDi lots: 0.01 price: 1.11498 serial number [ 1 ] ended.
Task: <none> serial number [ 2 ] started.
OrderOp elapsed *: <not measured>
Task: CancelOrder EURUSDi serial number [ 3 ] started.
CancelOrderTask : ticket:17936684 run latency: 0
task: <none> serial number [ 2 ] ended.
OrderOp elapsed: 221 msec
task: CancelOrder EURUSDi serial number [ 3 ] ended.
Task: SimpleBuyLimit EURUSDi lots: 0.02 price: 1.11498 serial number [ 4 ] started.
Buy Limit Ticket #17936691 submitted.
OrderOp elapsed: 229 msec
task: SimpleBuyLimit EURUSDi lots: 0.02 price: 1.11498 serial number [ 4 ] ended.
Task: <none> serial number [ 5 ] started.
OrderOp elapsed *: <not measured>
Task: CancelOrder EURUSDi serial number [ 6 ] started.
task: <none> serial number [ 5 ] ended.
CancelOrderTask : ticket:17936691 run latency: 0
OrderOp elapsed: 213 msec
task: CancelOrder EURUSDi serial number [ 6 ] ended.

3970

I don’t typically use limits, as my exit points are very dynamic - but that could be done. I would love to know what else can be done to reduce the speeds there - can you perhaps give me an approximation of what your lowest execution times have been with your specialized setup?

3971

haven’t had espresso yet sorry - just read your post again - OK so let’s assume those were your lowest times. That would be great and something I’d be interested in working with. But are those only for cancels / modifications, or actual fills on new market orders?

3972

I would say that brokers value what they judge to be a long term business relationship, just like
any other business. Clients of any business often negotiate preferred terms, based upon a “win-win”
relationship which exists. Brokerage are no different.

In my case, I use Limit orders and only secondarily, Market orders. But one of the trading “modes”
is a short term “scalping” mode. In that case, multiple price entries are used to establish a VWAP
position, so there might be a dozen orders filled, and others unfilled. There comes a point where we
want to CLOSE them all. IN THAT CASE, speed is important because a close is a “market” type of
order, implicitly.

In such an “aggregate” position, I am not interested in Profit/Loss of individual positions. What matters
is the VWAP (volume weighted average price) profit of the “order group”. Ignoring for a moment, when
we “scale out” incrementally, most of the time, we want to get out “now” and, as I said, this means the
closure/cancellation of a dozen or more individual “sub positions”.

My software is custom written over the NJ4X.com framework, which is Java over an API into Standard MT4
terminal “pools” which actually perform the Order Entry operations. So one terminal.exe process is
dedicated to incoming Market Data, and 2 or 3 or more processes are dedicated to Order Execution.
If I have a dozen positions to close, and MT4 is not Asynchronous in its order operation, then this
method gives us an accelerated “parallel” Order capability. Instead of closing 12 positions, one at a
time, we can use 3 terminal.exe servers (all into the same account) which are able to close that
position 3 times faster, than a single terminal alone, because they work concurrently. This is the
main reason why latency is important to me, but it is not the only criterion.

Because the software initiates orders over the NJ4X framework using multiple Java threads, each
thread is able to report when it started, and finished each order operation.

Hope that was an “intelligent” enough explanation, but certain business relationships, discounts,
and other preferential treatment a client might receive, are best kept confidential. As I said before,
if you go to any broker with what appears to be a substantial business opportunity, then you will
always be able to negotiate some preferential arrangements as the relationship develops… :slight_smile:

hyperscalper

3973

I’m currently living in Puerto Rico (US Territory), I want to trade Forex. Stock account in the US consider PR to be international so brokerages in the US place it under their US division. I can’t seem to find a Forex brokerage that handles it the same way. Has anyone else run into this problem or have suggestions?

3974

[U]Playing catch-up.[/U]

• Finally, I have updated post #7 (LINKS pertaining to specific Group 1 brokers).

Here are the updates:

FinproTrading (UK) — posts #3501, #3542, #3569, #3741, and #3744

LMFX (Macedonia) — posts #3501, #3551, #3552, and #3709

ForexBrokerInc (The Marshall Islands) — post #3529

Tallinex (SVG) — posts #3519, #3623, and #3720

FX Choice (Belize) — post #3720

Trader’s Way (Dominica) — posts #3542, #3560, #3692, #3708, #3720, #3736, and #3744

TradeWiseFX (SVG) — posts #3498, and #3709

As I have noted previously, LINKS consume a lot of the 15,000 characters allowed in any one post in this forum. The links listed above put the total size of post #7 over the limit, requiring some removals. As a work-around, I have changed some of the oldest post numbers to plain text, while listing the newest post numbers as live links.

• Also, I have updated ForexBrokerInc and Trader’s Way in the Group 1 List to reflect the corrections noted by Spyderman in post #3733.

.

3975

lol @ the intelligent remark - very much so! Really appreciated this post and the time you’ve taken here. Thank you.

3976

I don’t understand your question. Please clarify.

Are you looking for a U.S. forex broker (for example: FXCM in New York), or an offshore forex broker (for example: Tallinex in St. Vincent and the Grenadines)?

Both of those brokers (FXCM and Tallinex) will welcome your business as a resident of Puerto Rico. And there are many others — Trader’s Way in Dominica, for example.

.