Those who are trading with Trader’s Way can sign up with paybackfx.com and get rebates on their commissions.
0.225 pips for currency pairs and 0.003% for other trading instruments.
18.75% of paid commissions for MT4.ECN.
Hi Clint! My existing broker is the one that I found from this list, thank you mate! I know US residents are not allowed trade retail FX outside of the US unless the broker is registered with the CFTC. What happens to the US resident/citizen who doesn’t adhere . I’m not sure about the implication. Just to be on a safe side, I have started trading via Bitcoins. . I read through this entire thread and US bitcoins brokers aren’t discussed much and are not on the list too. Am I missing something here? I think bitcoins are the best way to stay at safe distance from CFTC. Inputs and advice will be appreciated if you guys think otherwise. Thanks in advance
I’m glad that you found our little thread to be helpful.
The CFTC has jurisdiction over forex brokers, [I]not over their customers.[/I]
In other words, the CFTC can attack and prosecute any unregulated broker (either domestic or foreign) which (1) is operating within the U.S. (that is, has a so-called U.S. “presence”), or (2) is soliciting and/or accepting U.S. clients [I]while operating from a foreign country that cooperates with the CFTC. [/I]
Example: A broker domiciled in Switzerland would be sanctioned and possibly shut down for soliciting U.S. residents (via a website, print advertising, or other means). The Swiss broker would be attacked by the CFTC [I]in coordination with the Swiss regulatory authority,[/I] because Switzerland has entered into an agreement, called a Memorandum of Understanding, with the U.S, which essentially says that the Swiss will enforce U.S. regulations against Swiss brokers in cases involving U.S. clients.
And Switzerland is just one of a long list of countries that have entered into these Memorandum agreements with the U.S.
Nasty buggers, these regulators.
The U.S. residents who opened forex accounts with this Swiss broker (in our hypothetical example) would not be pursued, charged or prosecuted by either the CFTC or the Swiss regulator, because neither the U.S. nor the Swiss has any authority to do so.
Bottom line for U.S. forex traders: The only risks associated with opening an account and trading with an offshore broker which is not CFTC-regulated are (1) that the offshore broker will yield to threats and harassment from the authorities in the U.S. (or in their home country), and close the accounts of their U.S. customers, or (2) that [I]the CFTC’s ongoing attacks on money-transfer mechanisms[/I] will become so burdensome to the offshore broker and to their U.S. clients, that the broker or their clients will simply give up, and close the U.S. accounts.
When the broker/client relationship between an offshore broker and their U.S. clients breaks down, and the clients’ accounts are closed, it’s generally the case that prior notice is given to the clients, and arrangements are made to return deposited funds to the clients or (with the clients’ approval) to another offshore broker willing to accept these U.S. clients. (See, for example, the recent case of Tallinex closing all of their U.S. client accounts and offering transfer to Capital City Markets.)
Such an outcome is likely only if the offshore broker (Tallinex, in this case) is honest and reputable —
[B]— and finding such honest and reputable offshore brokers is what this thread is all about.[/B]
Bitcoin did not exist when this thread was started 6½ years ago. When Bitcoin was invented and became talked-about, it was viewed with suspicion by many people. Eventually, a number of threads on the subject of Bitcoin sprang up here on Babypips, authored by people enthusiatic about the new crypto-currency (as well as a few people with commercial interests in promoting Bitcoin). Discussion of Bitcoin on this thread came a little bit later, and has generally been subdued, but increasing.
As the CFTC continues to orchestrate U.S. government attacks on intermediary banks (and other money-transfer businesses) which facilitate the movement of money to and from offshore brokers, alternative forms of money and alternative methods of moving it around will become increasingly necessary and popular.
If you have found Bitcoin to be your best option at the present time for dealing with your present offshore broker, then by all means use it. But, don’t be shocked if, sometime in the future, you read that the CFTC is attempting to interfere with your Bitcoin deposits and withdrawals.
Our fight with the Nanny State is an ongoing fight.
Unless and until the U.S. Congress and the U.S. president take action to bring the CFTC to heel, we will continue to slide down the slippery slope that we are on. That slope is nothing less than the CFTC’s campaign to become the World Forex Police, and to destroy off-exchange forex trading.
That’s as deep into my rant as I feel like going at this particular time.
Good luck to you. Thanks for posting here. Keep us updated on your success with Bitcoin.
.
1 Like
capital city markets upadte: my account will be move from tallinex to this company on april 23 i also found out credit card and debit card funding will not be available for u.s. residents
Hello moe41,
I have experienced that as well. It seems that US regulators and CFTC is now going after banks who process credit cards and debit cards and they will ensure that brokers can not take money via the most easy method of payment. Leaving users essentially with Bank wire or other payment portals like paypal, skrill etc…
BUT beware, it wont be long before these payment wallets (who operate in US) will face the same fury of CFTC, leaving the US traders will the ONLY option of using bankwires 
Thank you Uncle Sam (read CFTC) for being so nosy about how we invest our money
Hello Clint,
Like always, this is amazing thread and 6.5 years is a long time to prove how consistently you have been fighting the “nanny state” issue. Kuddos to you for that.
I Think scalpingjack started a very good point.
I have been using bitcoins to transact for my forex account and it has been amazing. No restrictions, no costs, no waiting for bank to release the payments ABSOLUTELY nothing. There is a good reason why Bitcoins are becoming the currency of choice and has been picking up in value.
To clear the commotion about it. US can NOT control your bitcoin movements, because by design its just your bitcoin address (a has code in computer terms) that stores your bitcoins. You can move bitcoins from one exchange to another, or from one provider to another at the click of a mouse and its upto the network of millions of computers that process your request. IT CAN NOT be controlled by US. Infact US regulation has already recognized Bitcoins as a virtual asset.
The U.S. Treasury classified bitcoin as a convertible decentralized virtual currency in 2013.
The Commodity Futures Trading Commission, CFTC, classified bitcoin as a commodity in September 2015.
In September 2016, a federal judge ruled that “Bitcoins are funds within the plain meaning of that term”
So there is absolutely nothin to fear when using bitcoins as a US resident.
Here is a link from Wikipedia that will show you the legal status of Bitcoin by country
Hope my few cents help
And @Clint, I will highly recommend that you make a list of brokers who accept Bitcoins as a method of payment AND that we can trust and / or are worthy of your A List.
A lot of forum members have requested that in the past, and on public demand, I hope you will make the effort of At the very least highlighting the brokers in your A list that DO accept bitcoins.
Many thanks again for your efforts
Cheers !
tradesway still take credit/debit card deposits, they use a company in china who don’t give a damn about u.s. regulation
You were right about FinPro, great customer service so far… They don’t have an integrated processor for BTC deposits, but they do accept it via direct address and use coinbase for the conversion rate. The feed is fantastic up until 21:00 GMT, but this is also the case with the other ECN brokers on the list. Same here, no withdrawals yet, but so far my favorite broker on the list.
Taking your [B]suggestion[/B] – ahem, [B]demand[/B] – under advisement
By the way, [B]you[/B] are certainly free to research the 13 brokers in our List, and post the names here of those which accept Bitcoin transactions.
This thread is a community effort. All hands are welcome to pitch in.
.
The 8th Edition of Bob Bauman’s book [I][B]Where to Stash Your Cash Legally[/B][/I] is now on the market. I haven’t read it yet. But, I can recommend the 7th Edition, which the publisher – Sovereign Offshore Services LLC – is now offering as a free download. Details in a moment.
Bob Bauman is a lawyer and former U.S. Congressman. For 25 years he has been researching offshore opportunities for recovering financial freedom, and preserving wealth. He has a lot to say about the loss of personal privacy and financial freedom in the United States; and about citizenship, foreign residency, foreign banking, foreign investing, wealth preservation, and tax avoidance.
Before you consider moving your banking offshore, setting up an offshore company or trust, establishing residency offshore, or renouncing your U.S. citizenship – you should read this book. It won’t be the final step in your due diligence – rather, it will be the first step, giving you a broad overview of what “offshore” entails, and pointing you in the direction your due diligence should proceed.
To give you a summary of the book’s theme and purpose, I have copied and pasted the Author’s Comment (a sort of Preface) from the 7th Edition.
At the end of this post, I’ll provide a link for downloading the entire 560-page book from the publisher.
Author’s Comment
Ask any reasonably intelligent person in the United States (or many other countries) what they know about “offshore” financial activity and usually you will get an answer loaded with uninformed, even preposterous theories.
Offshore, you will be told, is an evil place populated with secret numbered bank accounts, sinister con men and fraudsters, money launderers, drug kingpins, rapacious bankers and corrupt foreign politicians on tropical islands grasping for briefcases full of cash bribes.
Thanks to U.S. Internal Revenue Service propaganda, a complicit and lazy “news” media, far too many potboiler novels, sensational Hollywood movies and TV shows, the popular notion of “offshore” has been carefully crafted as an international sinkhole of tax evasion, fraud, and criminally corrupt, greedy officials.
Too few people realize that offshore financial centers (formerly known as “tax havens”) serve as vital links in international finance, banking and investment, as well as providing much needed low tax competition for the high tax, deficit spending, hugely indebted welfare states.
For a quarter century, I have been researching and writing about offshore financial matters. That has included topics such as tax havens and asset havens, offshore banking, asset protection trusts, international business corporations, family foundations, limited liability companies, financial privacy, residence and second citizenship and about the general state of the offshore financial world.
Even though I had earned a degree in international relations, a law degree, served in the Maryland State Senate and also spent eight years as a member of the U.S. House of Representatives, when I began this work I quickly discovered how little I knew about the real “offshore” world.
My early and limited acquaintance with “offshore” matters had created a similarly erroneous impression that too many people have to this day.
For 25 years or more, tax-hungry politicians from high-tax welfare states—including the U.S. government, together with their global leftist political allies—have mounted a series of largely false attacks on the offshore financial world. They intentionally have smeared offshore financial centers as venues of tax evasion, drug money and terrorist cash. At one point these attacks even advanced the preposterous claim that tax havens caused the 2008–2012 global housing and banking recession.
Their collective motive is obvious: the politicians want to tax more so they can spend more, hoping to buy popular support, thus enabling continued power and the continuation of their failed policies.
Then too, many American attorneys, accountants, insurance agents and stock brokers have a vested interest in keeping their clients close to home, thus they warn against going offshore. They, like the U.S. Internal Revenue Service, want to keep you and your money where they can get to it.
Don’t be fooled.
In spite of recent restrictions it is fully legal for Americans to bank, invest, and purchase real estate, annuities and life insurance offshore. When this fog of manufactured lies is cleared away, the truth about “offshore” opportunities and profits is very impressive.
But finding the truth for the first-time offshore adventurer can be a frustrating, discouraging task and, if you get burnt, a very short and unpleasant journey. Care is called for because there are many offshore fraudsters waiting to fleece the unwary.
The offshore world offers Americans few tax savings, certainly not as many as slick promoters claim. That’s because American citizens and U.S. resident aliens are taxed on their worldwide income, while most other nations impose “territorial” taxes, mainly on earnings within their own national borders. For those more sensible countries, taxes end at the border.
But going offshore for Americans does offer some limited tax deferral and, most of all, in this lawsuit-happy age, it offers ironclad asset protection. It also guarantees far more financial privacy (and yes, secrecy) than can be found in many other countries or most certainly in the United States, where the so-called PATRIOT Act has destroyed all financial privacy.
During the 14 years since the first edition of this book appeared, U.S. politicians and government bureaucrats have become an army of control freaks when it comes to Americans’ offshore financial activity. They have imposed an entangling web of border controls, travel controls, currency controls, foreign investment and banking controls, all the while repeatedly implying that “going offshore” is somehow illegal (it is not) and even unpatriotic.
The politicians shamelessly used the New York City and Washington, D.C., terror attacks on September 11, 2001, as an excuse for even greater control. The continuing 2008 global financial crisis serves as yet another pretext not only to impose more financial controls, but to spend trillions of taxpayers’ dollars to bail out banks and businesses, foreign and domestic, greatly increasing the ranks of those who are indebted to the existing system of Big Brother government.
Counter-productive government controls and regulations stifling the American economy have grown exponentially. The invasion of every aspect of law-abiding Americans’ privacy, we now know, is carried out in secret under the PATRIOT Act by the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) and numerous federal, state and local police agencies. The record of the NSA and the FBI in the last decade is one long list of abused powers and unconstitutional acts, followed by apologies and promises to sin no more—but only when they get caught.
A few years ago the U.S. Justice Department’s Inspector General Report criticized the FBI abuse of “national security letters” (NSLs) in obtaining thousands of telephone, business and financial records without prior judicial approval. Although they cited the PATRIOT Act as their authority, the DOJ found the FBI illegally issued more than 20,000 NSLs, most having nothing to do with terrorism.
Thanks to the courageous revelations of former NSA analyst, Edward Snowden, the world now knows that the NSA, at least since 2005, has been tracking, reading, listening and recording everyone’s phone calls, emails as well as our financial and other records, a massive violation of our privacy.
U.S. government civil asset forfeiture seizures are aimed mainly at innocent people never charged with a crime, as state and federal police agencies seek easy sources of increased income. Forfeiture revenue gains soared from $27 million in 1985 to $556 million in 1993. In 2012 the U.S. Department of Justice took in nearly $4.2 billion in forfeitures, a record, and that does not include millions more in state and local forfeiture income.
So what does all this have to do with offshore financial havens and your ability to “go offshore”? If you cannot answer that question easily you may be in trouble already.
Wherever you live, thankfully “offshore” is a place well outside the immediate jurisdiction of your home country’s government and its executive and judicial agencies.
When you move some or all of your cash, assets and investments offshore, you place them on the other side of a political and legal wall that stands as a formidable obstacle. Offshore serves as far more than a speed bump to lawsuits, claims, disgruntled business partners or a spouse, family members and even to your government and its regulations or unexpected laws.
Asset protection planning means taking steps well in advance of potential trouble to protect your assets, property, savings, investments, stocks, businesses, retirement and inheritances. Advance planning against unexpected threats takes on a new meaning considering the events in the United States and throughout the world today. History teaches that things can and do change quickly. Don’t ever think you are immune from financial and personal harm.
That’s what this book is all about—legal ways for you to protect your wealth, invest and increase your money, save on taxes, make your home and find financial privacy—and peace of mind—by “going offshore.”
I will tell you the who, what, why, when and where of the offshore world—based on my personal experiences, and I will connect you with the many experts with whom The Sovereign Society works across the globe; the same trusted professionals you’ll find listed in these pages for your own personal use.
Welcome to the offshore world,
Robert E. Bauman, JD
Delray Beach, Florida
November 2013
To download Robert Bauman’s [I][B]Where to Stash Your Cash Legally,[/B][/I] 7th Edition (2013), click this LINK. This is not a gypsy download. It’s a legitimate, free .pdf version of the book from the copyright holder (Sovereign Offshore Services LLC).
The 8th Edition (latest edition), published in 2015, is not available for free (legal) download. It’s currently available (used paperback copy) on [B]eBay[/B] for $5.
Regarding Panama: I have posted a lengthy THREAD (beginning a year ago) on [I]The Panama Papers Scandal,[/I] which involves money laundering and tax evasion on the part of clients of one Panama firm – Mossack Fonseca.
Bob Bauman’s book, the 7th and 8th Editions of which were published prior to the eruption of the scandal in Panama, recommends Panama as one of several offshore tax havens. (See pages 209-224 in the 7th Edition.) Bauman’s book does not advocate money laundering, nor does it advocate tax evasion (which is distinct from tax avoidance). The book recommends contacts in Panama that are trusted by Bauman and by the Sovereign Society. It does not mention Mossack Fonseca.
In my opinion, it’s important to draw a sharp distinction between one criminal law firm (Mossack Fonseca) and the country (Panama) in which that law firm operated. Perhaps the investigative journalists who revealed [I]The Panama Papers Scandal[/I] should have called their work The Mossack Fonseca Scandal.
.
1 Like
I’ve had good experience funding Forex brokerage accounts with Bitcoin.
My small accounts with 1broker and SimpleFX have been open since 12/2015 and both have been solid.
SimpleFX offers the popular MT4. I haven’t been using that account lately as I prefer to code in R; but, I used it for months without issue.
1broker has a REST API, which is amazing.
If you like to code in a language of your choosing (C, R, Java, shell script, Python, etc.), have the requisite programming knowledge, and only need a simple and powerful interface, I recommend checking out the 1broker API.
I wish more brokers had such APIs.
As for the legal aspects and future of Bitcoin, I think much is still being hashed out. I’ve heard one court determined it was an asset to be treated similar to trading stamps, and another court called it a currency.
For now, I am keeping it small, which should cover my ass.
ya, i got that email from tallinex also. i’ve decided to ignore my CCM account and fund an lmfx account in the next month or so and trade with them. their 1000:1 leverage doesn’t get reduced down by their algorithms for holding positions over the weekend like tallinex and cap. city markets does. i want to enter and exit with small trades but still keep that large leverage cushion to let my positions play out.
anyway, not sure if anyone cares, but i figured i’d trade with them and post my experience with them here after awhile in case anybody was interested in that broker. i remember when i was eye-balling tallinex, i loved reading anything anybody had to say who had traded with them.
ok got my login detail from CCM but here’s the kicker they say i can login to TALLINEX mt4 platform if that’s more convenient, hmm
Absolutely, NewGuy
Please keep us updated on your experience with LMFX.
Results from live accounts represent [I]the most useful info[/I] posted in this thread.
.
Done deal, I will research the brokers you have on list and will share my findings.
It’s hardly a “kicker”, Moe, and maybe time to abandon the conspiracy theories
You can actually log in to any MT4 broker with any other broker’s version of MT4 - the point of the statement was that many clients have myriad EAs, indicators, scripts and templates installed so reinstalling everything to a new platform with market open fast approaching is not always going to be viable …hence the valid suggestion to use the platform they already had set up.
I want to give CCM a fair chance, but here’s what I see just
casually commenting. I’ll post some stats on spreads later,
but looking at GBP/JPY for example, CCM’s Bid/Ask spreads
appear to be 2-3 times wider than TradersWay. This is as
poor as Tallinex from which the account originated.
[EDIT: I think I made a mistake and their leverage offer is 500:1 which is OK]
Their leverages on the “Standard” account are XXX:1 and I
believe that to be competitive, they need to double that.
Their minimum funding, if it is $2000 is excessive, so they
will need to be flexible on that, and permit testing at levels
of $100 or less.
Their restrictions on minimum lot size 0.10 with increments of
0.01 above that, mean I will have to recode portions of my
software.
I haven’t tested Execution Latencies or Consistency, and I won’t
unless I can do it with $100 or so in the Live account. I won’t
test such things against a DEMO account.
I DON’T SEE THEM BEING COMPETITIVE, BUT IF A REPRESENTATIVE
FROM CAPITAL CITY MARKETS WANTS TO COMMENT, THEN
LET’S ALL LISTEN.
hyperscalper
I am not sure where CCM has its backend servers, but it doesn’t
seem they are in Amsterdam. For TradersWay and FinProTrading,
our Amsterdam located VPS systems see 1 millisecond to the
servers.
For CCM’s MetaTrader, the latency to the servers is 70-80 ms.
Limit Order placements are pretty quick, coming in at 140-155 msecs
so if you could locate your software near their servers, then you
would see times of roughly 150 - 70 = 80 msecs order placement
times maybe.
Executions I can’t test with an unfunded account.
For me to use CCM’s facilities, as compared to TradersWay or FinProTrading,
I would have to have 3 out of 4 of the following items changed:
-
drop the minimum trade size complexity which affects my software,
and slave copying volume scaling algorithms. -
double the leverage to 400:1 for automated, protected trading
[EDIT: I think I made a mistake and their leverage offer is 500:1 which is OK] -
tighten the spreads, reducing them by 30 - 50%
-
reduce the minimum equity requirement to around $300-$500 for
"standard" MT4 variable spread plus commission accounts.
hyperscalper
Preliminary data about CCM Forex spreads,
minimum, average and maximum PIPs
but these observations are during the Asian
session.
[EDIT: Added Tradersway’s spreads during same
period further down, for direct comparison.
hyperscalper
CCM Spreads during Asian session
approx 03.00 GMT so wider than
would be seen in more active
conditions.
symbol min , avg , max spread pips
AUDCAD, 3.0 , 3.1 , 3.2 ###
AUDCHF, 2.9 , 3.0 , 3.0 ###
AUDJPY, 2.4 , 2.6 , 2.7 ###
AUDNZD, 2.9 , 3.2 , 3.4 ###
AUDUSD, 1.6 , 1.8 , 1.9 ##
CADCHF, 2.8 , 2.8 , 3.0 ###
CADJPY, 2.4 , 2.6 , 2.7 ###
CHFJPY, 3.0 , 3.0 , 3.1 ###
EURAUD, 2.7 , 2.9 , 3.1 ###
EURCAD, 3.0 , 3.1 , 3.2 ###
EURCHF, 2.1 , 2.6 , 3.0 ###
EURGBP, 1.9 , 2.1 , 2.2 ##
EURJPY, 1.9 , 2.1 , 2.3 ##
EURNZD, 3.5 , 3.8 , 3.9 ####
EURUSD, 1.1 , 1.3 , 1.5 #
GBPAUD, 3.9 , 4.2 , 4.4 ####
GBPCAD, 3.8 , 3.9 , 4.0 ####
GBPCHF, 3.5 , 3.6 , 3.8 ####
GBPJPY, 2.6 , 2.9 , 3.1 ###
GBPNZD, 7.8 , 8.4 , 9.5 ########
GBPUSD, 1.5 , 1.7 , 2.0 ##
NZDCAD, 3.1 , 3.1 , 3.2 ###
NZDCHF, 2.7 , 2.9 , 3.0 ###
NZDJPY, 2.5 , 2.7 , 2.8 ###
NZDUSD, 2.1 , 2.2 , 2.3 ##
USDCAD, 1.8 , 2.1 , 2.3 ##
USDCHF, 1.8 , 2.1 , 2.2 ##
USDJPY, 1.3 , 1.4 , 1.6 #
TradersWay Bid/Ask spreads during the same
Asian session by way of direct comparison:
symbol min , avg , max spread pips
AUDCAD, 0.5 , 1.3 , 1.6 #
AUDCHF, 0.8 , 1.1 , 1.3 #
AUDJPY, 0.4 , 0.9 , 1.2 #
AUDNZD, 1.1 , 1.4 , 1.8 #
AUDUSD, 0.3 , 0.6 , 0.8 #
CADCHF, 1.5 , 1.7 , 1.9 ##
CADJPY, 0.7 , 1.0 , 1.2 #
CHFJPY, 0.5 , 1.0 , 1.3 #
EURAUD, 0.4 , 1.1 , 1.5 #
EURCAD, 0.7 , 1.2 , 1.6 #
EURCHF, 0.5 , 0.8 , 1.1 #
EURGBP, 0.4 , 0.7 , 0.9 #
EURJPY, 0.3 , 0.7 , 0.9 #
EURNZD, 1.5 , 2.1 , 2.3 ##
EURUSD, 0.1 , 0.3 , 0.4
GBPAUD, 1.1 , 1.8 , 2.4 ##
GBPCAD, 1.8 , 2.1 , 2.4 ##
GBPCHF, 1.6 , 1.8 , 2.1 ##
GBPJPY, 0.9 , 1.3 , 1.6 #
GBPNZD, 2.5 , 3.1 , 3.2 ###
GBPUSD, 0.6 , 0.9 , 1.2 #
NZDCAD, 2.9 , 3.2 , 3.4 ###
NZDCHF, 2.6 , 3.0 , 3.2 ###
NZDJPY, 2.7 , 2.9 , 3.0 ###
NZDUSD, 0.7 , 1.0 , 1.2 #
USDCAD, 0.5 , 0.8 , 1.1 #
USDCHF, 0.3 , 0.8 , 1.1 #
USDJPY, 0.2 , 0.4 , 0.6
Thanks – I appreciate your willingness to pitch in.
.