IG Group is re-entering US market.
1 Like
I just donât buy that story. Brokers traded against clients before ECNâs
rationalized all of that.
Liquidity Providers take the opposite side of the Retail population 100%
of the time, and they win 100% of the time.
But how does that disadvantage the trader ? Unless the trader is scalping
for very small targetsâŚ
Effectively, Market Makers (in the modern sense of Liquidity Providers)
say to the ENTIRE RETAIL MARKET. Come what may, I will defeat all of you
in the short term for small scalps. But I cannot defeat those of you who
hold positions longer term, of which 50% will be winners, and 50% will
be losers. Thatâs how it works.
Retail short term traders are not given enough upside for Longs to profit,
and not given enough downside for Shorts to profit; for the average trader.
Those of us who do small scalps, with enough specialization and precision,
can be winners; but that is very difficult, both automation and data intensive.
Anybody else dare to chime in on this one?
hyperscalper
I think what @MarcinFX was trying to say is that most retail brokers claiming ECN are not really ECN. In theory, an honest âhybridâ (simultaneous a/b book) is supposed to give you STP execution conditions without any artificial interference that will bust your account.
But it is a question of trust. Who do you trust to actually send your orders to the ârealâ market? Who can give you fix trade receipts and such when you have a problem or want to check execution. Can customize your price feed and regularly monitors LPs for misbehavior.
I would think by now the retail community would mature beyond 0.1-0.2 pip spread differences being the deciding factor in choosing a broker.
Hello @HyperScalper , I totally disagree with Marcin infact I disagree with a lot of things that he has been saying over last few threads. For example the so called V20 engine that trades under 1 MS because its technically Not possible, unless Oanda has found a way to send orders at a speed faster than light and have the communication messages processed at a speed even faster than that
He is claiming that brokers can NOT survuve unless they take the opposite side of the trades, so essentially that means ALL the surviving brokers take opposite side of the trades (which would mean a cummulative opposite trades of over $4 trillion per day across all the broker community combined !!! ). Lets assume that IT IS TRUE for a minute , So where is the volume on all these dark pools and exchanges coming from ??? if that is not coming from traders, is it coming from outer space ? (sorry to be so extreme, but how else do we understand or critically reason extreme assertion ? ).
I can go on an on about how each one of marcinâs statements did not make any sense from any angle, but IM NOT WILLING TO SHARE MY PRIVATE MYFXBOOK PERFORMANCE with him to gain his respect.
@whywescalp Similar response. Retail forex brokers 99% of them who claim to have âECNâ liquidity are either bucketshop OR running a hybrid A/B book. Not to say that hybrid is a bad thing. But running a pure A-book model is difficult to do unless you have high volume clients. As long as the broker executes all orders without any interference, then theoretically there is no difference. Itâs a matter of trustâŚIn order to trade with a market maker, you must have clear execution rules, order cancellation policies, etc. But it is too tempting to simply renege on a deal when it is unfavorable to the broker.
And 1ms trading is possible, but only via 100% automation and co-location. Your VPS needs to be in the same datacenter as the broker. But the above avg retail trader (automated) should be able to deal with up to 20-200ms queue times. Exchanges do microsecond execution.
btw, I briefly looked into TurnKey Fx and FinPro Trading. Glad Iâm not restricted to these offshore disasters. I would look into removing my deposit as fast as possible. You are much safer with Oanda or Gain Capital in one of the major jurisdictions (US, UK, Au, Singapore); at least they would likely actually segregate your money. Youâd get your deposit as needed.
Lets do a simple math.
Lets say a bucket shop broker who has about 100 active clients where in every client is trading approx 10 lots per day (20 lots buy + sell). To me that sounds like a small shope who is on the verge of not being able to survive.
Now lets say this bucket shop is trying to compete with larger brokers and gives a very low commission just like our top brokers. Lets assume commission is $2 per lot ($4 round trip)
SO, with just these 100 small traders, trading over 20 trading days in a month the broker will make
Average Number of Lots Per day * 2 * Number of clients * Number of days in a month
SO your maths will be
10 * 2 * 2 * 100 * 20 ===> $ 80,000 per month
So effectively a very small bucket shop will make approx $80,000 USD per month with just 100 active clients paying $2 per lot per side trading just 10 lots per day
Assuming the bucket shop becomes technically good and starts to charge a premium commission of $5 per lot instead of $2. Everything else remaining the same, the theoretical profit of this bucket shop is now $200,000 per month.
Well, to me that sounds like a lot of money to keep running a bucket shop.
Now, assuming that this broker only wants to make money from his clients losses.
Average balance required to trade 10 lots per day will be (very very conservatively) $5000.
So if all the clients loose money the broker will make $500,000. But if he runs a A book he will make $200,000 per month.
I see it as a no-brainer, why smaller bucket shops will not follow a pure A book as that will be a longer term winning proposition. Unless we are talking about shady and crooked brokers who kill their clients will slippages and order rejections techniques.
My suggestion, instead of following consiparacy theories. We should rather focus on quality brokers who have a track record of execution, speed and withdrawals.
There is no gurantee that your âRegulatedâ broker will not go bankrupt. Think Lehman, Man Financial, MF GLobal etc etc etc etc etc⌠What did the investors get back from them ? So⌠why do we pay a premium to deal with them ?
Yes it is true that invetors get lower leverage, higher spreads, higher commissions rates, lower (or NO) client support because essentially daddy CFTC wants us to deal with monopolistic economy where their lobby is happier than their citizens.
Any reason to intentionally bring up the US Person affiliation when the applicant is opening the acct?
SHIFT DEBIT CARD LINKED TO COINBASE BTC WALLET
OK, this is not advertising, but just an observation that if you are using
Crypto to transfer funds, and you hold BTC at Coinbase you just pulled from one
of your trading accounts, then there is a Shift Debit Card which
can be linked via Partnership with Coinbase, which will Debit from
your Coinbase BTC wallet at any point of purchase at the "spot"
price for USD against BTC⌠If you can figure out how to do it,
then it ping pongs betweeen Coinbase and Shift to set up the
debit card. Just FYI, I set one up myself, but âCaveat Emptorâ LOL
After setup fees for the card $10 I think, and issuance of
the actual PLASTIC card, they charge no fees for most transactions.
I think you may even be able to use it without the physical PLASTIC via Shiftâs
API, not sure, but look that up for yourself thoughâŚ
https://www.shiftpayments.com/ shows a sample API requestâŚ
fairly âfuturisticâ Iâd say âŚ
hyperscalper
1 Like
MY POST ON DEBIT CARD CONNECTION TO BTC
has apparently been âhiddenâ as âoff-topicâ. Itâs possible
for it to be fairly judged as âoff-topicâ but the intent
was to address the convenience of using Cryptos
as a âfunds transfer mechanismâ which is one of
the primary impediments to U.S. persons, when
working with offshore brokers.
Restrictions imposed by CFTC and related government
agencies on âfunds tranferâ to/from Offshore brokers,
is the main reason I would post a Crypto related
topic in this forum. It is a way to more "smoothlyâ
transfer funds, outside of the traditional funds
transfer mechanisms.
I donât mind if moderators want to hide it, but the purpose
is to provide information on âsmootherâ methods of
transferring funds between U.S. personsâ dollar
denominated activities, and their Offshore brokerage
accounts, which is the main focus of this forum thread.
There are certainly other crypto related posts in this thread,
and I continue to assume these are to increase awareness
that Cryptos are an efficient funds transfer mechanism
for U.S. persons having difficulty or inconvenience transferring
funds to/from their legitimate offshore brokerage accountsâŚ
The increasing availability of crypto transfer mechanisms is an
effective way to mitigate regulatory over-reach which we
as U.S. persons experience in funds transfer⌠In my viewâŚ
Could be a âfeeble justificationâ but thatâs why I posted
the infoâŚ
hyperscalper
1 Like
HyperScalper,
Like you, I was surprised that your post was flagged. It was completely âon topicâ in this thread. Money-transfers can be problematic in dealing with offshore brokers, and the use of cryptocurrencies to facilitate those transfers is a subject we have discussed at length in this thread, and will continue to discuss.
I will refrain from a full rant on the subject of âflaggingâ, and instead simply re-post (as a quote) what was âtemporarily hiddenâ.
First time posting on here, but longtime FX trader. Just finished reading all the comments about CCM. Are there any updates from yâall?
Hereâs the status from my end. I was originally with Tallinex and was pushed into CCM because of the whole US client thing. Been with them ever since without much issue. Now I have both personal and PAMM accounts with them (investor accounts I manage). I realize most the issues investors talked about happened last year. I had investors deposit money (via wire transfer) without issue, and I even withdrew $5k in January '18 without issue. But now Iâve got problems. I requested to withdraw an additional $5k in February and have yet to receive it (almost 2 months at this point!). I contacted them earlier this month and this was the reply (I have another response, but can only post 1 pic since Iâm a ânew userâ):
Also, my contact for managed accounts has stopped communicating. For me this only reached an alarming stage today and Iâm considering halting further investing (I have investors set to deposit funds with CCM) until my funds go through and some sense of surety is restored. After reading through here and re-reading CCMâs responses I donât think Iâll trust them any more for now. I believe Iâll move to another broker like Finpro Trading (since they offer PAMM accounts).
This is all a huge inconvenience for me a disheartening as I donât want to scare of my new investors.
Would be interested to know othersâ recent experiences or update about CCM.
Cheers!
1 Like
Hello, FinancialWorld, welcome to this thread.
Two-and-a-half years lurking on this forum, eh? â Well, Iâm glad youâve decided to come out of the shadows 
Thanks for posting about your situation with CCM. If I understand it correctly, the banking problem you have described is a new problem, separate and distinct from the deposit scandal reported by several of our members five or six months ago. And I find this to be alarming.
The two problems taken together seem to indicate that CCM cannot be trusted to handle customer money.
Like you, Iâve been wondering whether any of our members who were caught up in the deposit scandal have received restitution from CCM. We havenât heard from those members for a long time. So, if you guys are tuned in, this is my request for information on your current situation,
vis-a-vis CCM.
FW (Iâm going to call you that), please keep us updated on your dealings with CCM.
I think that the outcome of this latest CCM fubar will determine whether we keep them on our List.
Thank you Clint! haha yes FW is fine.
Yes, this is a new problem. Iâm trying to remain optimistic, but maybe thatâs because I havenât lost all my money yet. I am in contact again with my PAMM account manager and am pressuring the need for answers, quick resolution, and something to restore my faith in CCM.
As it stands right now, the issue appears to have always been the banking intermediary (even for the deposit scandal). Pretty sure theyâve changed intermediaries a couple times over the last few years, but I donât have record of this. But back to topic, my first priority is to understand whatâs going on, see if my withdrawal can be processed (which would partially restore my faith in CCM), and if that isnât possible right now to get the funds re-issued to my account (because they shouldnât have left the company). Iâll let you all know what happens, and will keep an eye on the thread to see othersâ updates.
1 Like
Hereâs the most recent response Iâve receive from CCM about my withdrawal â which has been in âPending Wire Transferâ mode since Feb 22.
[CCM response]
Hello xxxxxx,
The information I sent you in the previous e-mail was received from our accounting department. They will contact you as soon as they have any updates, but it may take more than 24 hours.
There are currently some issues with our bank, because since they have changed their internal policies they are requesting additional information/documentation from us in order to process the withdrawals. It means that the withdrawals are taking now longer then usual, as these additional verifications take time. However the withdrawals are being processed, just not as fast as before. Thatâs why your withdrawal is still in queue. However, we expect this issue to be resolved soon. And as soon as our billing department has some news/updates from the bank they will let you know.
I remain optimistic, but am concerned on why this has taken so long. Will hopefully have a concrete answer from CCM accounting within the next 24hrs.
CCM TECHNICAL OFFERINGS ARE NOT COMPETITIVE ANYWAY
Last time I evaluated their technicals, i.e. Bid/Ask spread, Commission,
etc. Capital City Markets was clearly uncompetitive anywayâŚ
I would hold TurnkeyForex.com and FinProTrading.com as the
most highly competitive offerings which U.S. traders can accessâŚ
Of course I speak only for ForexâŚ
And, of course, Cryptos can be used as funds transfer mechanisms
for those two brokersâŚ
hyperscalper
Very simple math indeed. And letâs not complicate things by introducing the more obvious real life costs
real life brokerage operating costs
add a few more real life elements that affect [bucketshop] brokerageâs cost of doing business
Assuming the typical bucketshop will not invest $100k for a new mt4/mt5 license +
$15-20k monthly in server expenses, they are likely going to white label mt4 for $5k + 1.7k MQ monthly fees. The white labeler may also have additional service fees, but letâs just add $2.3k and make it even $4k/month. The white labeler has given us permission to use our own feeds also, so we can do a/b hybrid book (or 100% b book if you want).
You will need a risk management engine of some kind. If you arenât sending flow to your white labeler, then you must have software to do real-time analytics of how much risk you have on either book at any given time. $1k+ and/or based on volume/included with bridge.
Compliance/dealing staff salary + benefits. $6-8+k/month for yourself + 2 full time people minimum. White labeling will save you some money here, but again, you might be subject to monthly minimum flow.
Cost to whitelabel/source legitimate price feeds. Technically each broker makes their own price, but if it deviates too far from the ârealâ price, then price arbitrage opportunities will abound or people will not use your services because the cost is too high.
Cost to bridge liquidity from PoP. $0 for bucketshop. But $2.5-$4.00 R/T is not uncommon depending on volume. Remember that there may be costs for additional price feeds even if you do not send any actual flow.
Cost of acquisition / advertising / etc between $300-$1500 per client or more
Adverse selection. Active traders are likely to be informed (which is why they are active and will continue to be active). If you are only internalizing risk, you are pretty screwed as you have no way to offload risk to a larger wholesaler. Or youâd have to have massive spreads.
Assuming you have 100 active clients trading 10 lots per day with $5k starting balance, this would imply that those active clients are profitable on average [details=clients Not profitable example] (if clients were not profitable, they could only continue to pay commissions for
$4 r/t x 10 lots/day x 63 trading days = -$2520 x 100 clients = -$252,000, assuming they average breakeven across all trades.
Losses would be much faster if they are losing 2+ pips on every trade.
($4 r/t x 10 lots/day x 10 trading days) + (-$20 two pip loss x 10 trades/day x 10 trading days) = -$400 + -$2000 = -$2400.* They would either quit or have insufficient margin to continue to open trades 
.
-$240,000 if it is 100 clients in only 10 days.
[/details]
Lets say $20 per lot r/t profit (2 pips).
$20/lot profit x 10 r/t lots/day x 20 trading days = $4000 x 100 clients = $400,000 profit to clients
$400,000 - $80,000 = $320,000 net profit due to 100 tradersâŚor $3,200 per trader. Itâs a good chance that profitable traders are going to request regular withdrawals. Especially with a new broker. If 1/2 of the client base choose to withdraw profitsâŚ
$3,200 x 33 (1/3 of 100 clients) = $105,600 [-$25,600 broker profit]
$3,200 x 50 (1/2 of 100 clients) = $160,000 [-$80,000 broker profit]
Where are the the trader profits paid from? If the broker takes on the risk, then the broker has to pay from its "winnings"
You could argue that the broker could just simply increase their commission. But then like any other product, you must compete with other brokers. So unless you have some unique execution or pricing (which the average bucketshop likely would not), why should we trade with your brokerage?
In reality, you will have a handful of clients that even trade >=10 lots daily higher. Most will likely trade <5 lots/ month.
Very few offshore retail brokers will have this let alone accept US clients. As I predicted several years ago, nearly all of the brokers that initially told the US CFTC to F-off eventually âbent the knee.â The ones that still accept US clients are either doing so very quietly or are fraudulent brokerages who fake legit operations in a major jurisdiction. At least Traderâs Way and Tallinex was honest about where they operate from. Many of the brokers on the current list (TurnKeyFx, FinPro) go out of their way to fake a popular jurisdiction or not reveal their regulatory status at all.
Majority of the owners/management of these types of brokers come from the gaming/casino industry and have no intention to act like a real financial services provider. Churning/burning clients are much easier for them. And they do not have to pay out any actual profits.
Summary
This text will be hidden
1 Like
seems like are already running a bucket shop. Is that the reason you find our list of brokers not worth your money 
Regardless, I have no intentions to continue a conversaion with you. PERIOD.
1 Like
EASTER FRIDAY BANK HOLIDAYS FOREX SPREADS
For FinProTrading and TurnkeyForex, here are the spreads
as the London Session period expires on a very dead day
as we speakâŚ
There are some which are untradably wide, but overall, its
not bad. These are U.S. friendly brokers, as previously
discussed.
hyperscalper
symbol min , avg , max spread pips
AUDCAD, 2.2 , 2.9 , 3.3 ###
AUDCHF, 1.8 , 3.4 , 5.9 ###
AUDJPY, 1.6 , 2.1 , 2.7 ##
AUDNZD, 4.4 , 4.6 , 5.0 #####
AUDUSD, 0.7 , 1.1 , 1.4 #
CADCHF, 1.6 , 2.3 , 4.2 ##
CADJPY, 1.2 , 1.7 , 3.3 ##
CHFJPY, 2.4 , 3.0 , 6.0 ###
EURAUD, 3.3 , 3.5 , 3.8 ####
EURCAD, 1.1 , 2.0 , 3.1 ##
EURCHF, 1.6 , 1.7 , 2.3 ##
EURGBP, 1.2 , 1.5 , 1.7 #
EURJPY, 0.8 , 1.1 , 1.4 #
EURNZD, 6.6 , 7.5 , 8.4 #######
EURUSD, 0.1 , 0.4 , 0.6
GBPAUD, 5.2 , 5.8 , 6.5 ######
GBPCAD, 4.6 , 5.8 , 6.4 ######
GBPCHF, 4.0 , 6.9 , 21.0 #######
GBPJPY, 3.2 , 4.1 , 4.5 ####
GBPNZD, 1.0 , 8.0 , 13.0 ########
GBPUSD, 2.6 , 3.0 , 3.2 ###
NZDCAD, 4.3 , 5.3 , 6.4 #####
NZDCHF, 3.2 , 3.9 , 4.6 ####
NZDJPY, 3.2 , 3.8 , 4.7 ####
NZDUSD, 2.7 , 3.0 , 3.3 ###
USDCAD, 1.3 , 1.8 , 2.0 ##
USDCHF, 1.2 , 1.4 , 1.7 #
USDJPY, 0.3 , 0.4 , 0.6
Scalping is the main strategy, but trade executions
are just fineâŚ
1 Like
Iâve been reading these posts on turnkey and after speaking to them Iâm informed they are not regulated. Was this not a requirement to be one of the trusted offshore brokers?
it makes me think of inovatrade in 2011
@codybear we know â review the first post of this discussion. The fact that Turnkey isnât regulated is why weâre reviewing them on here. Other off-shore brokers just wonât accept US clients now (with just a hand-full of exceptions).
Update on CCM: I contacted my PAMM account manager and asked for an update and for the accounting manager to contact me. Iâve been assured that WITHDRAWALS are still being processed but that itâs very slow and mine is in queue. They havenât given a time-frame so I donât know if Iâll be waiting 1wk or 3mo.
Hello xxxx,
You probably already heard from Kris that weâve been experiencing some issues with our bank. Due to changes in their internal policies (which we understand relate to tighter banking controls in general), theyâre requesting additional information and documents for almost all withdrawals we process. Weâve been collaborating with the bank in order to provide the requested details and documents, however it takes time for us to collect the required information and for them to check that all is in order. Weâre trying to process withdrawals in the order they were requested, but due to these additional checks and limits the bank has imposed, many withdrawals are still queued, including yours.
Weâre sorry for the inconveniences and delays this is causing. Please understand that the withdrawals are being processed, just not as fast as we and our clients would like. We believe that this issue will be resolved soon. Unfortunately, we cannot provide you with an exact time frame, also because today and on Monday the bank is closed due to Easter holidays.
Best regards,
Emma Olsen
Capital City Markets Limited
Vantu House, 133 Santina Parade
Elluk, Port Vila, Efate
Vanuatu
t: +44-207-442-5903
e: [email protected]
While Iâm happy that things are supposedly still moving I donât like that they canât give me a time-frame. After no updates for 5 days Iâve sent the below response.
Hello Emma,
Thank you for your response.
Can you please provide me with a time line on when my wires (Request ID xxxx and xxxx) will be processed and sent? Request ID xxxx has been in queue since February and this is taking unacceptably long. I also have PAMM accounts at CCM and because of the withdrawal delays my investors are considering withdrawing their funds. This will be a loss to both CCM and to me, and I would like to avoid this! Wire transfers do not take this long, so I cannot understand why this hasnât been sorted out by now. I do not understand what amount of documentation your bank would be requiring that would slow withdrawals down this much.
Please be more transparent on why this is taking so long, what your team is doing to expedite the process, and what changes are being made to assure this doesnât happen again in the future.
Also, please provide me with a timeline for completion and expedite the process where possible.
Best,
FinancialWorld
Iâm pushing them for answers, transparency and a timeline of when theyâre going to take care of this. The delays are already costing me, and have actually run me short on cash.
Iâll let you all know if/when things are resolved.
Best,
FW
inovatrade had rave reviews for 2 yrs prior to mike alcocer shutting it down overnight and walking away with the funds of over 1000 traders that totaled almost 200 millionâŚthey even sponsored a golf tournament a couple months prior to the shut down thereby luring in even more moneyâŚ
unregulated should be Thee biggest red flag to not include themâŚ
yes I understand its up to each individual to do their own full due diligence themselves and decide but lets include the disasters from the past.
alcocer is serving 17.5 yrs in federal prison for this but not one cent was recoveredâŚunregulated is gambling
1 Like