Going offshore to escape the CFTC

Broker Discussion Forex Brokers
5098

Hi,

Well the NJ4X based software I wrote myself, so it is
purely custom. I don’t know about the Stragyquant
system you mention, so I can’t say whether anything
could usefully be interfaced with it…

I have moved away from Tradersway because they are
not able to compete in commissions with TurnkeyForex
and FinProTrading.

For the type of trading I am doing, which is “micro scalping”,
I need the speed and precision of those two brokers based
in the UK. We are looking at MT4 Market Fills in the range
of 120 milliseconds average, with limit placements in about
80 msecs typical. Execution is very accurate, and that is
what I need so TurnkeyForex.com and FinProTrading.com
provide that speed and accuracy in the 28 major Forex
pairs.

[EDIT] these response times are measured from the time
our software says “go” and the time we get confirmation, but
the software is very complex, and the control process has to
use interprocess communication to the NJ4X terminal server
and thus to the “pool” of terminal.exe (MT4) processes to
do the work… the box is in Amsterdam < 3 msecs ping time
from the London services, and this is a dedicated (non-VPS)
Intel® Xeon® CPU E3-1230 v6 @ 3.50GHz, 3501 Mhz,
4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s) running Windows 2008 R2
and Java is Oracle Java 8 server. So… actual response times
of the brokers could be better than what I posted.

[Removed for Forums Policy violation]

hyperscalper

1 Like
5099

Oops violated Facebook or BabyPips forum policy by giving out my email info. Sorry ! Please give me another chance. Forgiveness is divine … hyperscalper

1 Like
5100

tikegwu,

First of all you may want to clarify your thoughts on
what you’re looking for… This thread on offshore brokers
represents the collective group’s best efforts to ensure
that the brokers are evaluated as “safe” and to monitor
their behavior as regards dealing with U.S. clients specifically,
and their business practices in general.

As for trading tools, I think all of the brokers offer basic
MetaTrader 4 (some MetaTrader 5) as the [EDIT: FREE,
i.e. “no cost”] low cost and
fairly universal platform. Given that, and also given that
the “ECN” model has replaced brokers trading against
their clients as Dealers, all of these brokerages are "fair"
in executions. Differences exist on speeds, commissions,
business practices and, in particular, for U.S. clients,
funds transfer mechanisms.

But, as for “how to trade” and “tools” beyond what the
MT4/5 platforms offer, that’s not really what this CFTC
thread is set to address. But there are other threads on
BabyPips which do address issues of “how to trade
profitably”…

hyperscalper

5101

Has anyone heard of or trade with IC Markets?? Looking at trading with them when the new ESMA rules take hold.

5102

Update on CCM and Turnkey (at least from my world haha).

CCM:

  • They’ve been on the CFTC’s watchlist since Dec 2017 (google search: “CFTC has added 21 brokers and robots to the RED list”). While this has happened to many other brokers in the past I’m not sure what impact this could to have to their services. If someone has some historical examples of what’s happened to other good broker who’ve been “RED Listed” that would be helpeful to know.

  • I’m still waiting for my 2nd withdrawal request to be processed at CCM. I put it in on April 3, it was confirmed April 4th, but has been in processing ever since. I’ve followed up one, and will follow up again this Wednesday.

Turnkey:
So far I’m really liking Turnkey Forex and the support services they offer. My contact has been extremely helpful. Here’s a couple of updates that differ from what’s listed at the beginning of this thread. Please note that I trade accounts for others (account manager) so I may have gotten some special rates since I also act as a introducing broker (IB).

  • Round Turn Commission per Lot: $2 (f you’re an IB then you get $1 rebate).
  • Leverage: Able to get 400:1. Good for deposits up to $50k, but will cut off when account reaches $100k.
  • Funds are held with up to 16 Tier 1 liquidity providers, but when questioned who those providers are Turnkey said they cannot say because it’s against their internal policy. I pushed pretty hard to get details on how funds are segregated, with whom, and what happens in a worst case scenario (closure and they run with the money). Wasn’t able to get satisfactory answers, but what I was told is that funds are segregated and cannot be used by the company under any circumstances. If the company were to be shut down there is a department in place to handle account liquidation (basically sending the funds from the Tier 1 liquidity providers back to clients). This all sounds good, but I think you’d all agree it’s a little vague. I’m still fairly new at asking these questions of off-shore brokers. If anyone has comments on how normal this situation seems, I’d appreciate your comments!

Best,
FW

1 Like
5103

I have an account with turnkeyforex and I so far had good experience with them. Their support team is always willing to help and solve the issue and their withdrawals are fast, the most I had to wait was a few days before it hits my account. I think they dont like to disclose their LP’s or bank because of all the witch hunting that goes on with offshore brokers and to some extent I sympathise wth them. However, what I found over the years is that essentially turnkeyforex and finprotrading have the exact same spreads and trading conditions but its run by different companies / management. This is both good and bad. Bad because you have two brokers who are exactly same in trading conditions (obviously they both are top notch and unbeatable). Good becase they both will fight for the same clients and have little room to get less competetive because they know (as long as they both are socially active) that if they loose a client, the client can simple go to the other broker that offers the same conditions.

I have been looking for an alternate broker for a while and have tested quiet a few brokers but havent found someone as competetive as finpro trading or turnkey forex, with respect to spreads or quality of execution. I also got hold of client support at turnkeyfx.com (their technology provider) but turnkeyfx.com only talks about their own technology service (if you want to become a broker) and given no inputs into what brokers they support.

Any inputs with an alternate broker (with similar of better execution and commission structure) is much welcome. Best would be if such a broker provides accounts denominated in BTC or other cryptos and takes deposits in multiple cryptos. I find evolve.markets as a good alternative so far with respect to BTC broker who accepts US clients… still searching for more :slight_smile: any sugestions will be most appreciated by all readers of this thread.

5104

if you go to turnkeyfx site and scroll down you can see some of the brokers they support, what i like is they list the u.k. regulated broker LMAX not to be confuse with lmfx

5105

LMAX

That’s interesting. Back when I had access to LMAX through a
German partnership, it was amazing.

The SHAME here, due to the actions of CFTC is that U.S. persons
do not have free access to the very best brokerages in the world,
and it doesn’t look like there will be significant improvement
near term.

…hence the importance of this group. I just filled a Market Order
in 112 milliseconds at TurnkeyForex. But we still have few options
for overall brokerage performance as U.S. persons.

hyperscalper

5106

LEVERAGE

TurnkeyForex is listed with leverages negotiable
up to 400:1 on simple request. The same is true for
FinProTrading.

This means that with the low commissions, and tight
spreads, plus fast execution that controlled scalping
can be done very effectively.

hyperscalper

5107

good observation. They somehow call them partners / friends. So cant really say if turnkeyfx supports them as a broker of has some sort of integration with them. But in any case, it looks like if we have to start a forex brokerage then turnkeyfx is the way to go :wink: but for traders its finpro trading or turnkeyforex !

did you come across any other brokers that accept US clients and take deposits in Bitcoins ?

5108

what is the fastest (and average) execution that you have observed till date ? , just wondering if there can be some benchmark that we can get from your observations over all these brokers till date.

5109

no i have not but when i do babypips will be the first to know

5110

FINPROTRADING AND TURNKEYFOREX EXECUTION SPEED

Execution speed is not critical for most traders, but if you are a
scalper then, depending upon how you place your entries, it
will be a factor.

I had some discussion with FinProTrading technical support once,
complaining about execution times. Their claim was that once
they receive my order, then they take an average of 50 milliseconds
to execute it. But MT4 execution is subject to a number of
“layered factors”.

With most MT4 brokers, your order first hits an “Aggregator” which
delays and tries to aggregate size from various brokerage clients,
before attempting execution; and then the trade is exposed
to Liquidity Providers for execution. This implies the brokerage
may execute an “aggregated trade” at least some proportion
of which is YOUR trade.

Brokers have the capability to flag your account to BYPASS the
Aggregator phase… But whether they will or not, is brokerage
dependent. I’m not saying you should ask for this, but if you
are “latency sensitive” then you should ask, especially if you
are able to do a higher level of business with the broker.

IN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION: It varies, but a reasonable
expectation for Limit (MT4 pending) order placements is a
“round trip” time of perhaps 80 msecs best case, and for
Market Order fills, a best case of 120 msec or so…

These times may double x2 or even x3 rarely, with normal variability…

There is variability in these timings and, in my case, I have
multi threaded Java software, layered on top of the NJ4X
API which must perform interprocess communication to the
Terminal Server, where it selects which MT4 “terminal.exe”
will execute the order request. It may burn up 20 msecs
worst case in doing this, I’d guess.

How’s that for TMI (aka “too much information”) ? LOL

But I can tell you that for these brokers, which use TurnkeyFX.com
as the service provider, the executions are very very consistent,
and “slippage” is negligible. Obviously price can move a lot
in 100 milliseconds, but these are not usually on timescales
we ordinary traders care about…

If you consider what traders call “slippage”. Traders complain that
the broker does not give the price they are expecting. But usually
that is because they are “chasing” a fast moving price, so their
execution is worse than they wanted at the moment of submitting
a Market order. With Pending type orders, they convert to Market
Orders on the broker’s servers, and their “slippage” is almost
undetectible from a practical perspective.

I always use “slippage” to my advantage, by BUYing against a falling
price, and SELLing against a rising price. So any latency factors
or other slippage related factors, actually work in my favor.

BOTTOM LINE IS that these brokers are exceptionally consistent
and accurate, when you consider that these are only Retail
connections which support very small lot sizes down to 0.01
(1,000 Currency Units) at no penalty in execution…

hyperscalper

1 Like
5111

FinPro Leverage Clarification:

When you initially open account you would by default have 1.200X leverage.
If you request a leverage increase, they would increase up to 1.400X leverage.

If your balance surpasses 20K (20000) then the leverage would be lowered by FinPro to 1.300X.
If your balance surpasses 50K (50000) then the leverage would be lowered by FinPro to 1.200X.

Basically, your leverage could be (if you ask them) 1.400X from the initial deposit up to 20.000, then 1.300X from 20000 to 50000.

Lastly, any amount over 50K you would be trading with 1.200X leverage.

5112

LEVERAGE

Thank you for that detailed clarification. Basically, unless
you have extremely close control over your trades, you
are unlikely to be using much of your Maximum Buying Power
on any given trade. Leverage is considered "dangerous"
because you could quickly lose a substantial proportion
of an account if you ABUSE leverage.

On the other hand, with a “quality” brokerage, and adequate
"backup systems" and “safety net” strategies, whatever
those may be… in those cases you may use a substantial
proportion of your buying power.

Bottom line here is that IF you confidently control the
situation, then these 400:1 brokerages give you several
advantages:

  1. You need less equity in an account for a given Buying
    Power and, therefore Revenue Potential.
  2. If you have concerns about the safety of your funds,
    you are keeping less cash in the brokerage.
  3. MY VIEW: If you are not using your Buying Power,
    then why are the funds in the brokerage account?

All of this as compared to a 50:1 leverage with the
remaining U.S. brokers; so we have with 400:1
8x the Buying Power in these brokerages which,
if fully deployed (VERY CAREFULLY) give you
a lot of “bang for your buck”…

hyperscalper

1 Like
5113

:slight_smile: thanks for all the info, its very helpful

Thanks for sharing this. So effectively, you believe that 80 msec would be best and worse case would be 360 msec. I think with forex, given its such a fast moving market, 360 ms will almost kill the trades but in all honesty I have seen delays that are way worse than this one. But its helpful to have these sorts of benchmarkings when comparing the brokers.

In all honesty, I have no experience in what you just described above, but I will love to try and learn more about it. It sounds very intersting. But whats amazing is that your java application is able to do all these calculations in 20 msecs. So, do you keep all the terminals open / live or do they get invoked when your application has to place an order.

thanks for all the info, much apreciate it :slight_smile:

5115

FXCHOICE BCH ADDED TO BTC FUNDING

It’s good that cryptos are being increasingly added as funds transfer
mechanisms.

My problem with FXChoice is that they are not competitive
on Bid/Ask spread pricing, nor commissions, nor
execution speeds; as compared
with FinProTrading or TurnkeyForex brokerages.

That puts these Carribean brokers in a difficult position,
if they want to be competitive.

[EDIT] Trying to be competitive, FXChoice already has MT5, which
I evaluated because I wanted to ensure the NJ4X.com API framework
would support mixed MT4 and MT5 terminals, and it does…
But the pricing, and other factors, are challenged to compete
with the other brokers I mentionned.

hyperscalper

Text of their email is:
"We are delighted to announce that clients can now deposit, trade and withdraw Bitcoin Cash (BCH).

BCH deposits are subject to a 0.5% processing fee, while the withdrawal fee is only the mining fee attached to it.

Please do not send BCH to BTC wallet addresses, use your Bitcoin Cash wallets only.

Should you have any questions regarding BCH deposits/withdrawals, please do not hesitate to Contact Us."

5116

This is good news ! And BCH has way way lower mining fees when compared to BTC. Especially for the ones who want to make small and micro transfers. Nice to see cryptos crawling up the priority list amidst all the regulatory headwinds.

5117

EVOLVE MARKETS MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENTS EMAIL

…I will just paste the text content of the email announcement…
…I have not evaluated in any details yet…

"SECURITY ALERT FOR YOUR ACCOUNT! : You can log into your Metatrader 5 platform secure client area, by using your existing username and password. However, you must set a Two-factor Authentication (2FA) separately for the MT5 user site.

Set MT5 2FA

How to setup 2FA

WHAT ABOUT MY MT4 ACCOUNTS? You will always be able to access your existing MT4 accounts on the MT4 user site at Log In - Evolve Markets. Evolve Markets is not discontinuing MT4. The MT4 user site is separate from the MT5 site.

MT4 Client Site Login

SHOULD I CHANGE MY LOGIN PASSWORD? Your web user login and password for MT4 and MT5 are the same for this announcement for your convenience. However, the platforms and web user management sites are managed independently. Upon changing your web login password by using the MT4 user site at Log In - Evolve Markets, it will not change the password on the MT5 user site at Log In - Evolve Markets.

MT4 Client Site Login
MT5 Client Site Login

Thank you for trading with Evolve Markets. We value our loyal clients and appreciate your ongoing business with us.
NEED MORE INFORMATION or QUESTIONS? Please contact our Support at [email protected].

Kind Regards,
Evolve Markets
https://evolve.markets "

hyperscalper

5118

Has anyone try to withdraw from Turnkey or Finprotrading? If so how long does it takes to get your money back? And what transfer method did you use… I’m thinking about opening an account with Turnkey and I want to fund it with skrill. Is that a good transfer method? Oh one more question, if I fund my account less than $2500, can i still trade with 400:1? I live in the US.