Going offshore to escape the CFTC

Broker Discussion Forex Brokers
570

Clint well said,

I think the best direction for this would be to organize for the cause. Nothing can move forward with out a strong collected voice. No one to my knowledge has tried organizing people for this cause or confronted any courts with this. Before getting a lawyer or collect any money I think it’d be great to organize for the cause.

To Join this group click on the link below and then click join.

Join the Battle Against the CFTC! - BabyPips.com Forex Forum
At first I thought a website would be the way to go, but now BabyPips has upgraded their forums to allow groups. So I’ve created a group so that we can gather for this cause. There is power in numbers, then I think once we have a good gathering of people we can think consult with a constitutional lawyer and move forward from there.

571

obama is peasant to the real powers. There is a cabal of money masters in sync with other money masters working together.Our gov. is infested with goldman sacs and other wealthy partners.This started long before and obama is just another paid servant to the money masters.

572

So where do we go from here. What lawyerly body would be the place to state the case? EFF? ACLU? Writing our representatives in DC is a great place to start, but it’s been my experience that nothing gets these people off the ball until they can’t stand the pressure anymore.

573

I don’t know if I am ready for legal action until we use the other process that has been given to us. Then when that doesn’t work you step it up a notch. I do think that these people are after our freedom and they will not be happy until we are a second world country.

574

The solution is rather simple. First you pick the ‘off shore’ country that you feel comfortable with. The 3 top contenders is Nevis-St. Kitts, Panama, and Belize. All three have laws that prohibit divulging information about citizens or corporations or trust registered there. I prefer Belize but there are good arguments for the others as well.

Second, find a well known and trusted lawyer in the country of interest and send a letter introducing yourself and tell them what you want to do, they will tell you what you need to send them and how much it will cost. In Belize, your looking at about $2000 for either a trust or IBC which also covers the first years registry fees. Trust are simpler and therefore a bit cheaper after the first year. The lawyer will also be able to give the bank a letter of introduction so you can open your bank account up in the country that you have chosen but you can open a bank account up in another country as well if that is what you prefer. Your attorney can help you there as well.

Trust were designed for the protection of assets, isn’t that what you are trying to do with off shore brokers? The trust or IBC is not an American entity, it is part of a foreign government and under the laws of that government so the NFA/CFTC is someone else’s problem. It legal, its safe, and it puts a wall up between you and the US gestapo. The best way to not get run over by the NFA train, is to get off of the tracks.

Clint wrote;

We can win this fight — eventually — at the ballot-box.

I have to disagree here. We have not had a real vote in anything since they went to the electronic voting machine. Proof? We only have to go back to the last election when 16 Ron Paul supporters in New Hampshire discovered that not one of them voted for Ron Paul. It was reported as a transmission error. They got caught with their hand in the cookie jar and nothing happened. The reality is that the war is over, we lost. Its going to get ugly from here on out. The navy had a saying, “Live to fight another day.” It’s not defeatism or cowardice, It is prudence and the better part of valor.

575

I agree with forex assistant. The solution isn’t gonna be at the ballot box anytime soon. The best thing I think we can do right now is organize for the cause and then come up with a solution then.

If you’d like to join our Group click on this link Join the Battle Against the CFTC! - BabyPips.com Forex Forum This is a BabyPips Group, which these Groups is a new feature released by BabyPips just a few days ago when they upgraded the Forums.

In the meantime maybe we can recompile a new list of available offshore brokers? Because it looks as though there has been several brokers that need to be taken off the list since the CFTC started sueing a bunch of brokers on the 27th of Jan.

576

There is a lot of truth in that statement.

On October 17, 2008, the [I][B]New York Times[/B][/I] published an article, [I][B]The Guys From ‘Government Sachs[/B]’[/I], detailing the incestuous relationship between Goldman Sachs and the U.S. federal government.

In her 2010 book, [I][B]The Weekend That Changed Wall Street[/B][/I], Maria Bartiromo referenced the [I]Times[/I] article with a list of characters who move back and forth between Goldman and the government:

"Some said that there was a revolving door between the halls of power at Goldman and the halls of power in Washington…

"Even a partial alumni list of the firm was striking. Robert Rubin and Hank Paulson were both chairmen of Goldman before becoming secretary of the Treasury, as was Jon Corzine, prior to serving in the U.S. Senate and as governor of New Jersey. Stephen Friedman was a Goldman chief before becoming chairman of the New York Fed — a position he was forced to resign over purchase of Goldman stock. Bob Steel was at Goldman when he was recruited by Paulson to the Treasury. Paulson also called on other Goldman alumni at important moments during the financial crisis. He put Neel Kashkari, a thirty-five-year-old up-and-comer at the firm, in charge of managing TARP, [B]and he pulled in Goldman director Ed Liddy to replace Bob Willumstad at AIG.[/B] Paulson himself had been recommended for the Treasury by White House chief of staff and Goldman alumnus Josh Bolten.

"The Obama administration continued the trend. Goldman Sachs alumni include Bob Hormats, Hillary Clinton’s economic advisor; [B]Gary Gensler, head of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission[/B]; and Mark Patterson, Geithner’s deputy in charge of overseeing TARP. In addition, the head of the NYSE, Duncan Niederauer, and the head of the New York Federal Reserve, William Dudley, both came from Goldman.

“Finding Goldman alumni was like playing a game of Six Degrees of Separation. The links were amazing, although many critics questioned whether they were proper. Should so many alumni of Goldman be making decisions about whom to save and whom to bail out at the height of the financial crisis? [B]Much of the grumbling about Goldman centered on the bailout of AIG. Goldman was a major counterparty of AIG’s, and had the Fed not rushed to the rescue, Goldman would have taken a major hit. Instead, it would end up being paid 100 cents on the dollar for its AIG holdings.[/B]”

Maria Bartiromo, [I]The Weekend That Changed Wall Street[/I], Portfolio/Penguin, 2010, pp 180-181.

I added the bold type, above, for emphasis.

Maria Bartiromo also reports that, in the decade from 1999 - 2009, Goldman Sachs “accumulated assets of more than
$1 trillion.”

577

First of all, I agree with much of this post and thank you for writing it, Clint. (I do think that Gestapo labels are a little too strong at this point, IMO, but that’s a minor issue.) I do agree that a lot of our problem has to do with the current Regime in power and that these dictates of the CFTC are backed by powerful persons and influences. But even if it is a David v. Goliath situation, I don’t think we should just throw in the towel. If we don’t mount a campaign for our rights we have practically no chance, whereas if we do we have a slim chance. Slim is better than none, although I realize that some will decide it isn’t worth their time to fight what appears to be a very up-hill battle.

I think we should try to form some sort of retail forex traders association and should attempt to lobby for a redress of grievances. I’m also concerned, though, that even when the Obama Administration is out (we must pray for that to be the case in 2013), these regulatory overreaches will outlast him. They were made by career government bureaucrats. So unless we get a new administration committed to rolling back the damage of the Obamaites in many areas, it’s unlikely that these regulations will be easily undone just by a single election. If we want these measures repealed or scaled back, we either have to defeat them in court or draw enough attention to the cause that it becomes part of the repeal agenda of the Congressional Republicans and the next Republican administration.

Edit: I did just think of one potential outcome that could perhaps provide us relief if achieved. In addition to the repeal of Obamacare, Republicans have been discussing repeal of Dodd-Frank. Since the CFTC was mandated by Dodd-Frank to create the hated regulation, if Dodd-Frank is repealed then the regulation may be nullified as well. There’s no guarantee that the regulation would be nullified if Dodd-Frank were repealed, but I think there’s a strong possibility it would.

Do we — as customers, or prospective customers, or former customers, of the offshore brokers now under fire from the CFTG — have standing to bring such a suit?

I am not a lawyer, but I have a pre-law undergraduate background and have worked as a paralegal. Standing is a very important issue to bring up. Based on my understanding of the situation and the law, former customers of foreign brokers (those whose accounts were shut down) would have excellent standing to sue. Because of the government’s actions they were adversely impacted and potentially lost income as a result. Prospective customers who never opened accounts at the foreign brokers may not have as much standing, but those who lost accounts certainly do have a strong basis and standing to sue. That’s my informed, non-lawyer opinion of the matter.

578

Well, we certainly have a lot to think about over the weekend.

579

Yes, we do have a lot to consider and work on, but I also think we’re making great progress. This thread is a tremendous resource that we have to build on in pursuit of our goal. I also love the new forum theme, btw.

Have a great weekend, everyone.

580

Although I had an offshore account through an US based broker’s (FxSolutions) european branch in London where I could use a higher leverage, they migrated my account back to their US branch when the CFTC ruling took effect. I had to provide them with an european address attached to my name which luckily I was able to obtain, in order to get back to trading away from CFTC rules. However, many brokers now require that even the bank account or credit card used in financial transactions between the trader and the broker to be from a financial institution located outside US if we use the outside branch of an american broker. The good thing is that in many countries of Europe, especially in Eastern Europe is easy as an US citizen to obtain both these documents! If FX trading is our livelihood it may worth the stretch.

581

There is a thing called civil disobedience. What we do is as a group go to off shore brokers openly and become affiliates for them. Im looking at the wording and trying to find the difference between an affiliate and an IB. But my guess is if you just have a banner on your website are you advertising or soliciting? Two very different things. But I am interested on peoples take as to where is the line from being an IB as opposed to an affiliate. IN the meantime I suggest civil disobedience. Take your money off shore even if the rules do not change your way of trading. I personally don’t care too much about the leverage but FIFO just plain sucks.

Why is the CFTC SUING those companies? Simple…
There is no LAW so they are TRYING TO SET PRECEDENCE!

I’m no lawyer but if these brokers were actually breaking laws they would be TRIED in a court of law and fined and imprisoned not SUED. WHEN YOU ARE sued THERE HAS TO BE AN INJURED PARTY. WHO IS THE INJURED PARTY!!!
The whole thing stinks. They are using the courts again to circumvent the laws

582

fijadotorg <— Fully Informed Jury Association. Take a look but I cant place links yet
great read on this site! —> JG_state_language_on_jury_nullification

You can’t change congress by voting! They are the problem. Writing your congressperson doesn’t change anything! Voting doesn’t change anything. It’s just switching seats on the titanic. They DO NOT WANT TO CHANGE! Its not in their interest to change.

One thing I learned about trading is that Forex is a mass of people. Think of traders as a school of fish. Some are swiming upstream, some are swimimg downstream some are haging out by the river banks scoping out the women fish. then something spooks them and they all run in the same direction. Most of the time its something out of fear. Some news release or Egypt is going to hell in a handbasket. But they UNIFY and move the market in one direction. This is Chaos in action. and its most basic building block… the fractal.

Think of fractals as nothing more than a decision to act, to buy or sell a currency, to call a loved one or not, to DENY governmment its ability to pick on the People! We have that decision inside US. Each one. And if enough Fish decide to act you have seen the results today on your computer screen with NFP. The market Moves.

That change has to come from us. Otherwise Freedom is dead and Im moving to belize!

586

Another broker to look at:

FX Pulp
FX|PULP

598

Hi. I from Russia. Therefore I apologize for bad English language.

I will tell a situation with the company instaforex.

Almost all courts are lost by brokers. Therefore the company has made decision to ignore court. They place emphasis which doesn’t spend activity in territory of the USA.

Most possibly weigh actives the companies in the USA it will be confiscated.

On the Russian Internet many are assured of probable crash of the company.

I think that almost all companies will stop to work with clients from the USA. Nobody wants to communicate with “fair” American justice in sphere forex:))))

599

Can you try explaining a little more? Also do you work for instaforex?
I’m not sure if I clearly understand what your saying

600

I am not employee of the company. I attract customers in the company of forex over the Internet.
The essence of the situation is that the CFTC requires InstaForex pay a fine of $ 140,000 for each U.S. client. It’s too much money.

CFTC believes that once InstaForex opened trading accounts to customers from the U.S., must comply with U.S. law.

The company has decided to ignore the lawsuit. Because InstaForex not a legal entity the U.S. has no branches in the U.S., so they are not obliged to comply with U.S. law.

InstaForex no longer accepting U.S. customers

601

CFTC requirements for the InstaForex

Sorry, can not add direct links

The fact that the CFTC will win the court no doubt. This will be a show trial. What would other foreign companies were afraid to work with American clients.

603

Art of Forex

Thanks for your contributions to this thread.

In my opinion, you are absolutely right that the CFTC will win in court. And this absolutely will be a show trial. It’s main purpose will be to scare the hell out of every other offshore broker.

I have copied a portion of the CFTC filing which you referred to. And I have highlighted several sentences in order to show how the CFTC is alleging that InstaForex is doing business in the U.S. —

294×1080

For anyone who wants to read the rest of this CFTC vomit, here is a link to the .pdf of the filing —

604

Well if InstaForex isn’t a U.S company and chooses to ignore U.S ruling why aren’t they accepting new u.s customers? :expressionless: