Going offshore to escape the CFTC

I still have one foot in the U.S. I maintain a small account at FXCM (New York).

The changes imposed by the CFTC over the past 2 years (increased capitalization requirements, restrictions on hedging, FIFO, and the recent 50:1 leverage limit) have not impacted me personally. But, that’s basically because of the way I trade, plus some work-arounds that FXCM has devised.

I don’t hedge, so that one doesn’t apply to me.

FXCM has tweaked their platform so that any selected position can be closed without regard to FIFO. Which means that from the front end, where I sit, there is basically no change (from pre-FIFO days) in the way I manage open positions. Compliance with the CFTC’s FIFO reg is handled in FXCM’s back office. Note that FIFO does not affect P/L; it simply clouds the trader’s view of his/her open positions, and serves as an unnecessary distraction.

The 50:1 leverage limit, which should be thought of as a DOUBLING of required margin from 1% to 2%, hasn’t hurt me for three reasons: (1) I never have a large number of positions open at one time, (2) I don’t bleed my account (through withdrawals) to the point of running low on available margin, and (3) I keep my risk per trade low, which means (among other things) modest position size, which in turn means that I don’t dip heavily into available margin.

As for the increased capitalization requirement, which the CFTC began implementing 2 years ago, that has been a good thing: it has driven the weakest brokers out of business (or into mergers with other brokers), and in some cases those driven out were shady operators to begin with.

So, what’s the gripe with the CFTC?

Well, first, and most important, some traders (who trade differently from the way I trade) [B]are[/B] severely, and negatively, impacted by the CFTC’s doubling of required margin.

Second, in my view, MARGIN is not a proper concern of the CFTC. No matter how reasonable, or unreasonable, their regulation of margin might be, the point is [B]it’s none of their damn business. [/B]

Furthermore, I’m not convinced that the CFTC is finished screwing around with margin. I will not be surprised in the least, if (when) the CFTC should decide to increase the margin requirement again, to 4% (corresponding to 25:1 maximum allowable leverage).

The CFTC behaves like a bully. The CFTC has demonstrated its ability and willingness to abuse U.S. retail forex traders, for reasons of its own, to satisfy its own urges. That is power the CFTC should not have, and Congress should strip that power from this bully agency


Cut the Federal government in half. And watch the American economy double.

Well that certainly ain’t happening seeing as Congress has only just given the CFTC oversight of retail forex trading.

Eloquently put Clint! How do we, the retail Forex investor, effectively make our voices heard in Congress? If we sit silent and do nothing, you can bet the CFTC will impose future regulations. Where will it end? Will the day come when Forex will only be accessible to the institutional investor?

Perhaps the day will come where retail investors band together and form an association that will have the resources to lobby Congress!

[B]John, [/B]I’m sure you’re right. But, only Congress can rein in the CFTC, and halt the abuse. Either Congress does it, or it doesn’t get done.

But, I’m not holding my breath. That’s why I have a strong interest in this thread, and in the whole issue of getting bank accounts and trading accounts offshore and out of the reach of the CFTC.

I have called the CFTC the Commodity Futures Trading Gestapo, because that’s how they have behaved, in my view — and that’s how I expect them to continue to behave.

[B]Biker,[/B] regarding your first and third questions, I’m going to resist the urge to get on my soapbox and launch into a rant against the government.

I’m not a political activist. So, apart from individual letters or phone calls to members of Congress, I don’t know how to organize a pressure group, or a PAC.

And I have to confess that it’s not really how I want to spend my time. I just want to be left alone, to conduct my own affairs in the way I think is best.

Regarding your second question (about a forex market for institutional players only), that’s the way it was 15 or so years ago. At that time, there was no retail forex market. There was no way for small traders to participate in [I]leveraged[/I] currency trading. I would not rule out a return to those “bad old days”. But, if that happens, it will come about in stages. The CFTC appears to be waging a war of attrition on retail forex; and attrition takes time.

I expect the government to push for two things: (1) harmonizing the regulation of retail forex around the world, and
(2) forcing retail forex onto a government-regulated exchange.

If (1) is achieved, then all of the information developed in this thread will become useless — there will be no “offshore” where the tentacles of the CFTC can’t reach.

If (2) is achieved, then the high-risk/high-reward aspect of retail forex will be gone forever. Retail forex will become just one more “product” — like stocks, or ETF’s, or bonds, or gold coins — that Charles Schwab, or your neighborhood bank, can get you into.

Clint,

I can appreciate the fact that you wish to conduct your own affairs in the way you think best. That is the beauty of living in the United States, that we do have that choice! I hope for your sake, mine and everyone else, Congress and the CFTC doesn’t get the notion that we don’t know what is best for ourselves.

I’m afraid it’s too late for that hope. The government has been invading every area of our lives for decades, telling us what we may not buy or own; what we may not do on our own property, or with our own property; where we may not go; what we may not eat, drink or smoke; and what we may not say.

They will continue denying and restricting our rights, until they have achieved total control of the entire population.

Unless we overthrow them, first.


Regime change will be [I]change we can believe in.[/I]

Agreed. I love my country, but the CFTC is but one of many ways I see Orwellian prophesies coming true in every aspect of our government. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, undoubtedly.

Clint, I have been silently following this thread since I joined babypips, and this is actually my first post in the forums. I do not want to butt-in and ask stupid questions if they have already been answered. Unfortunately though, the nature of this thread has evolved remarkably since the it was first opened, so (as you certainly know) many of the reputable offshore brokers have already ended relations with US clients. I am not an aggressive trader, nor do I trade in any high-risk situations, but because I am a small trader the 50:1 leverage has impacted me, and I have a dirty dealing desk broker to boot. I was about to give up my search for an offshore broker and resign myself to trading with another US firm, but it seems my preference of XAU/USD is unavailable through every US broker because of the CFTC, which leaves me with my DD broker. [I]This is beyond frustrating.[/I] I have been actively seeking a reputable offshore broker for 100:1 leverage, STP, and access to trading metals since mid-January, but to no avail. You have obviously been researching this much longer than me, so please, if you have discovered a good one and I have somehow missed it in this thread I would greatly appreciate being pointed in the right direction. I do apologize in advance for asking you to repeat previously covered information, if that is what I am doing.

FTR: I would readily open an account with DBFX if not for the 5k minimum to open an account; that is the only thing stopping me from going with them. I have investigated FinFX and they appear to have a descent reputation, but I am nervous about how young they are in the industry. It seems you have put more effort into this crusade to find brokers beyond the reaches of the CFTC than almost anyone I have seen yet, so this is why I am asking you directly. if you can suggest an offshore broker who you would trust yourself, I will be grateful. I would love to put an end to this frustration.

Varuca, prior to the CFTC enforcing the regulations of Congress, I used to trade exclusively with U.S. based brokers. My style of trading will utilize hedging from time to time. Since October 2010, I had to make a choice…trade with a U.S. broker and refine my trading style or search for an off-shore broker. I decided for the latter. Since earlier this year, I traded with CitiFX Pro based in New York. Their leverage is 1:50, hedging is permitted, no FIFO, 100+ currency pairs, US accounts are FDIC insured and regulation is overseen by the Federal Reserve, not the CFTC. The downside to Citi is a $10k minimum deposit and a platform that occasionally goes down during trading hours.

I recently began treading with Vantage FX. Online Forex Trading And MetaTrader 4 Brokers - Vantage FX Vantage is headquartered in Australia and they are regulated by the ASIC. Their default leverage is 1:100, trade micro lots and they offer the XAU/USD pair. So far, I have not had any issues with this broker. As of yet, I have not requested a withdrawal.

If I could trade in the U.S. without all the restrictions, I would come back home!

Thanks Biker. I have tried Vantage (twice, actually–I forgot I had tried them a week ago), but they have told me each time that they do not accept US clients. I would be happy to go with them, but they told me they only accept “sophisticated” clients from the US, and by their definition that means an account of $1 million + (!!!) Now, if you were to ask me to discuss wine or literature I might seem quite sophisticated indeed, but if “sophisticated” means I must have over 1 million dollars in capital, then sadly, I am not so sophisticated after all.

I mentioned that I have heard that they do have US clients, so the agent told me he/she would send me an email if he/she “heard otherwise”; it sounded very… odd. I have a sneaking suspicion that this broker does do business with small US clients like myself, but they do not want to get caught by the CFTC fishing around in their live chat box. Just a guess.

Varuca, I opened my live account with Vantage FX just a few short weeks ago. They do not solicit U.S. clients. I simply filled in their online application and submitted it. Within a day or two, I received my login info. I then received an introductory call from my new account manager. I did not deposit a million dollars either.

Why not try submitting the Vantage FX online application and see what happens. I am curious.

LMAO Now I’m curious, too! I think I will try that.

Please keep me posted.

They do not solicit U.S. clients.

I think this is a key phrase.

Yes, that is exactly what has occurred to me. Since broaching this issue regarding VantageFX with Biker, I have been wondering how many other brokers may accept US clients who apply but will tell you “no” when you ask customer service. I don’t know how I could be so stupid to not think of that before.

What page is this so-called list on. I just need a broker with a low min. Deposit

The compiled list by Clint is dated January 27th. PAGE 51

which one would you guys recommend to start with? I’ve been trading with a demo account and am able to turn profits daily at a good percentage as well. So I’m looking for a 200:1 or 300:1 ratio.

Im looking at trading-point but can’t really find much info about them… the info I do find is pretty positive though

Here is a website that breaks down specs and features of a broker. Trading Point - Promotions, Reviews, Ratings & Forex Broker Comparison

Personally, I wouldn’t use leverage beyond 1:200.

Updating the Offshore Brokers List

I am updating the Offshore Brokers List to reflect the new information posted by various members since the last update on January 27.

When the updated list is moved to the end of this thread, the previous version of the list will disappear. In order to minimize any confusion about what has changed and what hasn’t, I’m beginning with this run-down of all the new information posted on this thread (since January 27), including who posted it, and how it affects our List.

[B]New information:[/B]

InstaForex (Russia) — currently on the “yes” list, should be moved to the “no” list per fxmasters, post #508

RoboForex (New Zealand) — currently on the “yes” list, should be moved to the “no” list per fxmasters, post #508

NordFX (Mauritius) — currently on the “yes” list, should be moved to the “no” list per fxmasters, post #511

Forex4You — has never been on our list, should be added to the “no” list per fxmasters, post #511

FX Pulp — has never been on our list, should be looked at (?) per tom82, post #534

FXPro (Cyprus/Russia) — currently on the “no” list, confirmed per bravehoststamps, post #549

United World Capital (Cyprus) — currently on the “yes” list, should be moved to the “no” list per masters, post #550

Vantage FX (Australia) — currently on the “no” list, should be moved to the “yes” list per Biker Trash, post #552

Forex FS (Australia) — currently on the “yes” list, confirmed per Biker Trash, post #552

FBS (Mauritius) — currently on the “yes” list, should be moved to the “no” list per Jeannie, post #558

Accent Forex (Seychelles) — currently on the “yes” list, confirmed per Jeannie, post #566

GotMoney FX (Australia) — currently on the “yes” list, should be moved to the “no” list per Biker Trash, post #568

GoMarkets (Australia) — currently on the “no” list, confirmed per bravehoststamps, post #569

CMS Forex (UK) — currently on the “no” list, confirmed per BigMills, post #571

Varchev Financial — has never been on our list, should be added to the “yes” list, per BigMills, post #571

[B]Additional information:[/B]

The CFTC has filed suit against 14 forex brokers, including 3 brokers currently on our list:

FX Open (Mauritius) — currently on the “no” list, will remain there

InovaTrade (Panama) — currently on the “yes” list, will be moved to the “no” list

InstaForex (British Virgin Islands, per the CFTC) — see the first item in the list above

The remaining 11 brokers being sued by the CFTC are not currently on our list, and will not be added at this time

The January 27 version of the Offshore Brokers List will be revised to incorporate the changes indicated above.
I’ll move the revised List to the end of this thread in a few minutes.

If you’re keeping track of the totals:
Prior to this revision, we were listing a total of 90 brokers, including 52 on the “yes” list and 38 on the “no” list.

Edit: several weeks ago, someone said that Kinetic Securities (Australia) should be removed from the “yes” list —
can anyone confirm this?

okay thanks…

I just applied to forex fs since it seems more reliable of a broker than trading-point.

how long should it take for them to look at my application?