Going offshore to escape the CFTC

Broker Discussion Forex Brokers
689

I have been a member here for a long time and this is my first post…

Well here goes…I hope this is on topic…afterall, the title of this thread is “Going offshore to escape the CFTC”.

This is an incredible thread…but now the “Clint List” seems to lose its value as we cannot depend on who is telling the truth…oh well…[B]Just apply and see what happens[/B]…Now I must go look for cent accounts again…damn…

Is there a thread or can someone tell me where to find all of the offshore (no US presence) cent account dealers?..that are 500:1?..with withdrawal and deposit options that would be convienient for a US resident? There is probably only a handful of them. Maybe someone could list them here.

I am not in the “advice-giving” business, but for those of you that open offshore accounts…open many of them and diversify as you do with your trading. I realise that you folks know this…

[U]Another question…[/U]

Is it hard to get a foreign address (physical not a box) that would offer a forwarding service? and is it hard to get a prepaid Visa card with that address? Would this be considered breaking any US or other laws?

Here is something I found that gave me an idea… www (dot) mailnetwork (dot)com (Can’t post a link yet, I have not posted 5 posts yet to this site)

All I would need is a utility bill and a bank statement then…

ES

P.S. I noticed the Belize address was on Front Street…sound familiar ?

690

ElectricSavant, following are two links where you can perform custom broker searches based on your specific search criteria. Hope you find these helpful!

www.100forexbrokers.com/fx/broker_search.php

www.forexbrokerguide.com/

691

Hi all,
I was just looking around and it seems as though opening a foreign bank account isn’t so hard to do, but I think I need an address as well to get around the CFTC with the Offshore brokers. I did find this interesting link
http://www.freedomoffshore.com/belizeibc.html
which I am going to look into.
FYI…
shaun

692

I’d love to hear more about that!

693

[I]I’ve been to this site before. Don’t forget to read the punchline:

“This Belize ibc (international business company) set up by OUR ibc corporate services in Belize and made available in our cheap international offshore company formation package is normally priced at $1795 at least, but is being made available to a limited number of people for only $985.00 to export freedom and sovereignty to clients of our partners and those who can not normally afford this kind of specialized offshore company formation package.”[/I]

While this site appears at first glance to offer free services to help you establish offshore addresses, bank account, and broker relationships, it all leads up to a sales pitch. Yet another slippery setup in the islands. [B]CAVEAT EMPTOR[/B]. I wouldn’t send them a plug nickel.

As a last resort I might be interested in the mailing address business that ES found, but I am curious if this plan would actually work. Before stumbling into Biker in this thread and realizing that my IM chats and emails were probably a grand waste of time, I actually asked one Australian broker if I could use the home address of a family member in Melbourne, and I was told “You may not use any home addresses that are used solely for mailing addresses–the address you use must be your residence.” Since there are so many offshore brokers who we know really are taking US clients at this time, I see no reason to go to any extra efforts to set up a non-US address (yet).

For now, I’m going to play it safe and just apply with the broker(s) I select. Save the pursuit of an offshore address for the desperate time when the CFTC finally wins and shuts down all contact with legitimate international brokers [U]which I do not believe will ever happen[/U]. I actually started to respond to ES this morning, but it was turning into another novel, so I just backed up my thoughts and walked away from the computer. I have too many opinions about what the future holds for the currently evolving relationships between US clients and offshore brokers…

[B]The one important thing I was going to say this morning that I still want to say: Clint’s list is NOT irrelevant now because it does consist of many brokers who have been researched and placed on list 1 or 2 per babypips forum member experience, not just rumors, emails, and IM inquiries.[/B] Perhaps Clint’s list just needs to gradually be honed in to a list of verified brokers only. Since so much time has been put into collecting and organizing the data it would be a shame to see it tossed aside. Just as the situation is still evolving, so is the list. There really is an end to the evolution, I’m sure of it.

694

Good post, Varuca

Thanks, but it’s not “Clint’s list”. It’s the work of a large number of Babypips members, at least three of whom did as much (or more) basic research into offshore brokers as I did.

As the originator of this thread, I was asked to pull everyone’s research findings into a single list, which I did. Then, since that list was in “my” post, I was the only one who could edit or update the damn thing — er, I mean, the list. So, I inherited all the clerical and bookkeeping chores associated with the list.

Somewhere, deep in the bowels of this thread, there is a post listing all the people who had contributed to this effort, up to that time. If [B]that[/B] list were to be updated, it would be much longer!

Now, hang on a minute, while I put on my tinfoil hat and get a little paranoid. Okay, I’m all set.

Regarding the part of your quote, above, which was [B]not[/B] dipped in Pinot Noir (just kidding), I think the CFTC would be delighted if our List clearly identified all the brokers in the world who are quietly signing up U.S. clients, in violation of the Almighty Will of the Commodity Futures Trading Gestapo.

And I think that our offshore broker friends might be happiest if their names were circulated privately, and not plastered all over the internet. But, I have no idea how that might be accomplished.

An offshore broker with fine credentials, who accepts U.S. clients, will get lots of attention here on this thread. And they might become quite nervous about that sort of high profile. It wouldn’t surprise me if such a broker began to loudly deny that they do business with U.S. clients. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if they posted that denial on their website, in a press release, or even here on this Forum.

That’s how I would play it, if I were VantageFX, Dukascopy, or any other offshore broker friendly to U.S. clients.

Okay, the tinfoil hat is off, now.

695

The CFTC does not need the Internet to do their investigative work…believe me that Congressman and Senators are inundated with complaints from consumers about how retail FX has taken their money.

We got the Equities PDF rule because of the same reason.

Retail FX has grown exponentially in the US to the mainstream populas like no other market. Excessive use of leverage is blamed for the US Depression and the collapse of our financial system.

Naturally the Politicians rushed legislation without understanding what they do.

Retail FX was short lived…where it used to be confined to the Banks it exploded into the retail market and viola…here is what we get today in the USA.

Until there is a regulated centralized feed for Cash Forex it will be impossible to weed out the greedy dealers who fleece traders. The global nature of Retail Forex makes it impossible for the regulation of it, until we reach the One World Global Economy/Leadership that the Bible speaks of.

ES

696

As I passed the half-century mark, having accumulated multiple experiences of nearly being the completely ‘boiled frog’ (as the cooking temp was gradually ramped up); I realized there had always been other, more comfortable, options available to me. So, instead of going by established beliefs, when I noticed current conditions were different, I began searching for pro and con evidence re: any concern I had. And, I found that when considering the worst case scenario, the Boy Scout motto, saved me from disasters of denial, while simultaneously supporting the calm mind - so necessary for consistently profitable trading. Because that is an important goal for me, I searched and found several ways to, legitimately and inexpensively, have a documented international presence - just in case…

697

I have quoted a line in bold below from Sunsue’s post, I hope he does not mind.

You know…this is so true…What kind of dealers will be skirting rules.?..Denial rebellion…etc…Do not misunderstand me, it seems the more serious dealers in the more serious countries with regulation seem to choose not to do business with residents from the USA. Being unfair as it is…they are just more serious.

Why would I want to send my money around the world just to discover someone shut my dealer down?..regardless of the reason…Being in the USA what would I do?..it is just making the Gambling of Forex even more so…(I would never trade Forex without an edge…I like the “Prop Shop type” leverage without the “Prop Shop”)

I must side with the veteran traders that take the time to share on an Internet Forum…I am talking about the ones that have traded many years…such as Sunsue.

Give respect where respect is due.

ES

P.S. Electric is searching for a second residence/entity in Europe…HeHe However to establish residence one has to be there physically more than 6 months out of the year don’t they?

[B]disasters of denial, while simultaneously supporting the calm mind - so necessary for consistently profitable trading.[/B]

698

Electric Savant

Thanks for your comments. Of the several options for getting legal\safe access to international brokers, I choose the one that best matches my preferred lifestyle and budget - in that particular country. Instead of legal entities - most often thought of by traders - an often overlooked option for those who ‘work’ online or near the US international border; is living full\part time just over the US border. There are major advantages to that: 1) You can get addresses\bank docs to open trading accounts with most brokers 2) bank accounts will be denominated in stronger currencies 3) the amazingly low cost-of-living for renting rooms\apartments\houses for full or part time use, increases your available cash resources. (Most people I know, who are living the cross-border life, are doing it for the last reason, but I can see how traders could also benefit.) There are other options out there, too, that will be more practical for those in different circumstances. Find the one that’s right for you, and enjoy the journey - trading, calmly, along the way, of course!

699

It is very important not to get sucked into this “offshore” thing like many people have been in the past only to get scammed by crooks. And crooks with offshore addresses are preying on just this now from what you can see… “we accept US investors” nonsense. And listen to your instincts, it is nonsense. Trustworthy brokerage firms openly state that they cannot accept US investors. And this is the truth.

We all need to educate our Congress about this issue like mental patients. And also hope that US forex brokerage firms along with banks will eventually get on the bandwagon to repeal this idiotic leverage/margin rule along with FIFO nonsense that only accomplished driving away business from US.

So, if you have relatives living offshore, get them to open an account and trade that yourself. And always use trustworthy brokers in trustworthy nations. Don’t fall for “offshore” nonsense like so many newbies are falling for them currently. This is the best way if you must get away from FIFO and 1:50 leverage.

And in the meanwhile, inundate our government with this FIFO issue. We need to get rid of it!!! I seriously doubt that most people are even aware of this issue at our government.

And please… don’t go “offshore” crazy again OK?

And I am still shocked and dismayed at reading posts from so called “experienced traders” still trashing “hedging”. Are they sure they understanding trading? And the very concept of opportunity trading? They clearly do not; if they did, they would cry foul at FIFO loudly. They eagerly got conned by the “regulatiing” crooks. We should be allowed to trade opportunities without immediate FIFO accounting taking place on our trading platforms using the leverage of our choice!!!

700

Looking back at page 63 I think there’s too much negativity for our own good on the subject right now. We have adverse regulations stifling our ability to freely conduct our business activities as private citizens of the United States. We have our government suing brokers who were friendly to our situation. And we have some reputable brokers who are still willing to do business with us.

We can either whine about the situation, try to petition for a redress of grievances from the government (by either individually or jointly pestering Congressmen), and/or just continue going about our business. Those are the options.

701

I agree. And, since my ‘business’ is to trade profitably, the last option is my best match. Sometimes, what seems to be restriction, pushes me to change from the ‘comfortable’ to ultimately, find better ways of doing business…

702

Just reading back through this thread i caught this. I’m happy with DukC. No problems up to this point although I have no idea how long I will be able to cont before I’m shown the door. A couple of my trading buddies who got booted from brocotrader have moved their accounts to this broker and so far so good.

One other broker that I’ve heard good things about is SmartTradeFX - Online Forex Trading. Currency trading. out of hong kong. Haven’t checked them out but thought I’d through it out there.

703

I looked into SmartTrade a couple of months back but I couldn’t find out why they left Canada so quickly. If they ever answer my e-mails, I might consider using them, if they have a good reason for ignoring my e-mails that is. However, my choice or style is to choose from the best and most reliable brokers on the planet. To be able to open bank accounts and do business without concern about what the government is going to do next. I can’t do this as a US citizen but an off shore IBC, or trust can do all that and more. Since I like the International Business Corp. choice, I can structure my taxes,(have legal tax deductions) prepare for retirement, have the beneficiaries of my estate not have to go through the courts to see if they have anything left. All of that and more is done through an off shore entity called an IBC but can also be done through use of a trust. All you need to do to get one of those and put the US government behind you is to get a lawyer from the country that you prefer, Belize, Panama or Nevis/St. Kitts all close to the US. And guess what, If you go there to set up an IBC, it’s all tax deductible. It’s all legal and logical. There are prepackage corporation kits set up by lawyers that you can just step into and the price is reasonable, anywhere from $1,000 to $2,000. How do I know? I’ve been legal for the last two years, ever since the first NFA tampering. I can run my business from anywhere in the world, including the US without concern because it is 100% legal. Even though I am listed here as a newbie, I’ve been doing this for years. And since were all giving advice, mine is to do it legal and sleep at nights.

704

When you draw income from your entity, do you declare foreign income on you US Federal Tax Return? I do not mean you personally, I mean in general.

ES

705

Well as soon as all our legal recourses dry up or are taken from us I’m sure this is exactly what I’ll be doing.

706

When you draw income from your entity, do you declare foreign income on you US Federal Tax Return? I do not mean you personally, I mean in general.

Yes, you would treat it like any other income but you do have some tax benefits. Like when you’re making lots of money from your over seas business, you can live off shore in some tropical paradise to run your business which makes you eligible to deduct the first $90,000 or there-abouts from your US income tax. It’s part of the US tax code. Check with your accountant for details.

708

Hi all, a couple more brokers have come to my attention, they are as follows:

rexfo in England
Pepperstone in Melbourne Australia
IFX Australia is part of City Index Group
FX Solutions Australia is also a City Index Australia registed company
market plus Australia
Apex FX Trading also from Australia
Halifax Investment Services

Of course, they are regulated by ASIC.

709

Is anyone here with fxopen?