Going offshore to escape the CFTC

Broker Discussion Forex Brokers
8245

I am super interested in this as well, and have done bit of research on the topic. I would absolutely love to hear any suggestions you have.

For example,avatrade requires these documents for corporation registrants:

  1. A copy of the company director’s government-issued ID card and a copy of a recent utility bill (not older than 3 months) 2. If the trader is not the same as the director of the company, we also require a copy of the trader’s government-issued ID card (front and back side) and a copy of a recent utility bill to establish his or her place of residence.
  2. A copy of the trader’s government-issued ID card (front and back side) and a copy of a recent utility bill to establish his or her place of residence 4. Shareholders Register 5. A copy of the government-issued ID card of any shareholders that own a share of 25% or greater (front and back side), and a copy of a recent utility bill to establish his or her place of residence 6. None of these individuals can be from the US.

Is it is possible to meet these requirements by setting up an offshore company and having a nominee director? I assume the nominee director won’t suffice, and some other alternative is needed?

8246

Hire someone from another country to be CEO and director and actually pay them a salary, perhaps? Would need a legal team to verify legality of it… definitely an inresting idea.
For now, playing “whack a mole” might be easier.
I’ve put most of my signal processing into R and Python. All the MT4 and MT5 pieces do anymore is trade management. One broker goes away and three more open doors on another island somewhere. Just keep on trucking until our lawmakers pull their heads out of their back-office and fix this mess.

1 Like
8247

HOW AN OFFSHORE STRUCTURE MIGHT BE CREATED

Well, I have been too busy to get deeply into this, but the path
I believe is likely to succeed is as follows:

  1. Establish a Seychelles Foundation, which provides that the founders
    are not publicly disclosed, and uses the fact that the beneficiary of the
    Foundation is the Foundation itself. Now, such a foundation is not
    a commercial entity itself, but is able to invest in, and to own commercial
    entities.

  2. Establish (probably in another jurisdiction) a company similar to
    what is generally referred to as an “IBC-like entity” which will be
    provided a Nominee Director. This Trading Company will be
    wholly owned by the aforementionned Seychelles Foundation
    and any of its excess profits will flow to the Foundation.

  3. The trader will be hired by the Trading Company as a
    consultant, and be given responsibilities related to trading, etc.
    while any Brokerage Accounts will be established through
    the authority of the Director of the Trading Company who
    is a Nominee Director. When the brokerage asks whether
    there is a U.S. beneficiary involved, the answer is NO,
    since the beneficiary of the Trading Company is the owner
    which is the Foundation; and the beneficiary of the Foundation
    is the Foundation itself.

  4. Brokerage has then done its due diligence since there
    is no U.S. beneficiary of the Trading Company’s profits.
    SO THE BROKERAGE OPENS THE TRADING ACCOUNT
    IN THE NAME OF THE TRADING COMPANY.
    Repeat, the Brokerage has no need to go further, since
    there is no U.S. beneficiary of the Trading profits, since
    those profits belong to the Trading Company, and only
    excess profits will flow to the Foundation which is the
    sole “owner” or “beneficiary” of the profits.

4a) However, the Trading Company has on its staff, the
individual trader or traders which receive Consultancy
Fees, in accordance with arrangements, for their
contributions to the Trading success.

  1. And so, those employees or consultants who may
    or may not be U.S. persons, are not beneficiaries of
    the Trading profits, but they are ordinary consultants
    or employees     of the Trading Company.

[EDIT] Just a clarification that only the excess profits of
the Trading Company might flow to the foundation, or might
be held by the Trading Company for further investments.
Consultancy fees could be dependent upon a formula which
always guarantees that only a modest amount of excess
profits would indeed flow to the Foundation annually, and
of course, the Foundation would be dedicated to supporting
a very good cause, such as Fighting Global Warming
and/or Saving the Whales :slight_smile:

hyperscalper

2 Likes
8248

Wow, Brilliant! Do you have any resources or contacts that could be helpful in pursuing this? I am pretty serious about moving forward with it.

8249

Well, this specific structure is easily Googled, although I’d prefer
you used DuckDuckGo.com or Ecosia.com for your searches :slight_smile:

There is no shortage of offshore incorporation services, and it is very
easy to find this specific structure, among others, offered. The cost
could be several thousand dollars; and there are annual ongoing costs,
but it might be worth it. ? …that is, if you are developing a scalable
and significant Trading business. Maybe you have a $59.99 EA which
has a 1000% annual return; and you want to run that, attached to a
Premium brokerage account in Switzerland, etc…

Go forth and figure it out, and I’d like y’all to report back to us
or… if @Clint thinks it’s appropriate, we set up a different thread
focussed on the BUSINESS of Offshore Trading for U.S. persons ?..

[EDIT] PLEASE READ THIS FIRST. If you have a specific offshore
brokerage you really want to use; then CONTACT THEIR MANAGEMENT
PERSONALLY, establish a relationship, make your proposal, and
you might find that they would establish business with you, and
give you some guarantees that they would not boot you out.
THIS MIGHT BE VERY EFFECTIVE since these companies
may be reluctant to publicly solicit or permit U.S. persons, because they
may be exposed; but, if aproached directly by a motivated trader,
could accept them on a more discreet or private basis !!!
DO THAT FIRST, BEFORE YOU GIVE UP !!!

CFTC has guys on the payroll who are trying to log into websites
and establish accounts, so brokerages don’t want to provide the
possibility of a U.S. application. However, most things are
negotiable, on a personal basis; and I believe that’s the case
for most offshore brokerages; that they simply don’t want to
be an easy target for U.S. enforcement.

hyperscalper

8251

I’ll admit their web portal needs some work, but I logged in fine
and assume everything’s working. I don’t think there’s anything
wrong with them… ?

hyperscalper

1 Like
8252

ok just got this email from turnkeyforex, don’t look like no funny business, so i give credit where credit is do

" Hello James

As requested to us on chat we have reset your dashboard Login password for you.

New Password:

Use this new password and your email registered with us to login to your account:"

EDIT: i withdrew my previous post on turnkforex, i must say i never had any live experience with turnkey forex and there is not enough bad posts about them for me to label them a scam

8253

Hey SmallPaul, are you still using Cryptorocket? If so any additional feedback?

Thanks

1 Like
8254

Why the hell did I never think of this??? Great idea!

8255

@Clint would you sanction such a topic? I personally would find it helpful.

8256

If you’re being sarcastic, that’s OK. But, seriously,
we have spoken about this in the past; although
it is not always easy to do this, and yet it could
indeed be a great idea, since…

…since CFTC objections around brokerages, often
revolve around the prohibition of SOLICITATION of
U.S. persons

And if you approach them? Well, that’s not solicitation.

hyperscalper

8257

EVOLVE DOT MARKETS REVISITED?

I logged into their site, where I have a couple of
accounts. In reading their Terms and Conditions
there was no prohibition of U.S. persons.

So I send a support message asking the status of
that issue. I had been under the impression we
U.S. Yankees were being booted.

Maybe not?

[edit] Here’s the link:


and perhaps I simply missed it… Don’t know if that is
accessible external to a site login or not…

[edit2] I read it again, and still did not see any specific
country or jurisdiction prohibition. And also I pulled the
site’s front page from a U.S. IP address, and there are no
apparent geo-location blocks in effect. Maybe they’ve
softened their approach, and remain neutral ??? I am very
happy if they want to KYC me; anonymity isn’t my issue…
it’s the availability of service to U.S. persons. :slight_smile:

[edit] And one more thing, the reason I was prompted to
login and look around, is their email just received, referencing
their new leveraging policy:

hyperscalper

8258

I’m not ignoring your question. I simply haven’t formulated an answer, yet.

I don’t “sanction” anything on this forum, by the way. I’m an ordinary member here, just like yourself – except that I’ve been here a lot longer than you have.

I started this thread, and I maintain the lists in the first 5 pages (posts). Occasionally, I step in to try to steer the discussion back on topic. But, beyond that, I don’t permit or forbid anything. That’s not my role. This isn’t “my” thread, although I sometimes refer to it that way, elsewhere on the forum, or when I’m chatting with brokers.

If a majority of the active participants on this thread want to add a broker to our List, or designate a Trusted Broker, or remove a broker from our List, or even change entirely the direction that this thread is headed, then my opinion will be just one of many.

As I’ve suggested many times, I think this thread should be a democracy, to the extent that such a thing is possible and workable. One-person-one-vote, so to speak.

Regarding the question at hand — should a separate thread be opened to discuss the business of offshore trading for U.S. persons — my opinion doesn’t count any more (or less) than HyperScalper’s, or anyone else’s. But, so far, I don’t have an opinion. All I have is some fragmentary thoughts, which I will try to organize into a coherent opinion which I can share with our group.

In the meantime, those who do have a definite opinion on this question, should not be shy about voicing it here. That’s how democracy works.

3 Likes
8259

Regarding Evolve Markets —

Back in September 2018, we became aware of possible problems with Evolve Market’s hosting of U.S. clients. After some back-and-forth between HyperScalper and myself, we settled on the wording of a NOTE at the top of our Evolve listing.

Here is how we listed Evolve Markets for some time afterward, until they were removed from Group 1 —

• Evolve Markets Ltd (St. Vincent and the Grenadines)

NOTE - Effective September 2018, this broker no longer accepts new U.S. resident clients. due to pressure from agents of the Nanny State. For now, we will keep this broker on our List, while we wait to see how this situation is ultimately resolved.

Type: STP
Regulator: not regulated.
Accounts: Classic (optional) and Pro (default) – all accounts are denominated in bitcoin.
No personal information (except valid email address) required to open live accounts.
Negative balance protection on all accounts.
Other products: commodities (oil, gas, precious metals, copper), and stock indices.
Platform: MT5 (desktop, web, and mobile).
Min. initial deposit: no minimum – deposits (and withdrawals) in bitcoin only.
Other cryptocurrencies can be deposited after conversion to bitcoin via Shapeshift.
Max. leverage: 500:1 (forex and commodities), 25:1 (crypto).
Min. position size: micro-lot (0.01 std. lot)
Spreads: variable retail spreads (Classic acct.), raw spreads + commission (Pro acct.).
Commissions (Pro acct.): 3,000 bit per lot (forex and commodities).
Bitcoin accepted.
Website: https://evolve.markets/
Email: [email protected]; and [email protected]
Telephone: not disclosed

8260

Regarding Evolve Markets — one more time —

There’s no Welcome Mat for U.S. persons at Evolve Markets.

If a U.S. resident, who is not a current Evolve account holder, goes to their website and clicks “Create Account”, you’ll get the same notice that we first saw back in 2018 —

Evolve Markets - 1
Evolve Markets - 1459×539 30.4 KB

If we are welcome at Evolve, it’s a “secret” welcome. As HyperScalper has suggested in other contexts, maybe for U.S. persons, trading with Evolve is subject to negotiation. I didn’t pursue the matter, beyond clicking the “Create Account” button.

I use the Epic browser in Proxy Mode, so Evolve probably couldn’t pinpoint my location for a drone strike, but they nevertheless seem to know that I’m somewhere in the U.S.

So, it would appear that nothing has changed since 2018.

@HyperScalper

2 Likes
8261

That’s weird, because I explicitly tried from my U.S. IP address (with
no VPN active) and did not see that geo-block notice… (Vivaldi
browser that time) [edit] Oh, I get it, it’s when you click
"Create Account" and I didn’t do that… Mea Culpa :frowning:

So… I’m confused. They didn’t know who I was, since I didn’t
log in from that source. I was also logged in from one of my
Amsterdam servers (Firefox), but not from a U.S. IP… ??
and there would be no connection between the two, unless
of course you have certain No Such Agency tools… just kidding

[edit] Any-who… I’ll let you know when I get their reply back…
Guess I have egg on my face this time.

hyperscalper

8262

evolve markets clearly state they don’t accept U.S. residents

8263

somewhat im mainly using Eaglefx over cryptorocket , i love both because of their same day withdrawals including weekends and no funny business with my trades

3 Likes
8264

@HyperScalper my apologies, I didn’t mean for it to be sarcastic. I am genuinely excited about this idea! As soon as I read it, I thought to myself: I do this sort of thing all the time in my daily life as an entrepreneur. How could I have not thought of applying the same approach here?

No sarcasm, just excited to try it!

1 Like
8265

EVOLVE DOT COM BOOTS ME OUT FOR ASKING

My query to them was:
“In reading your Terms and Conditions, I don’t see a prohibition for U.S. persons. I have been a client for a long time, but was under the impression you were terminating U.S. persons. What is the status on that issue?”

Their response was:
"Hello,

United States citizens and residents are indeed explicitly prohibited on page 2 of the ToS, specifically in section 3.2:

“You are prohibited from accessing and using any of our Services if you are located,
incorporated or otherwise established in, or a citizen or resident of United States of
America or any state, country or other jurisdiction that is embargoed by the United States
of America, or a jurisdiction where the use of our Services is in any way restricted.”

You were only allowed to sign up because you signed up for a Netherlands IP address. [NOT TRUE] However, as it now appears that you may be a US citizen or resident, we will unfortunately need to close your account. If you are not a US person, please send your ID (driver’s license or passport) as well as a proof of residence that is dated within the last 3 months so that we can verify that you. If you are indeed a US citizen, please withdraw your balance as soon as possible and we will close your account.

Kind Regards,
Evolve Markets "

THEY ARE DEFINITELY KICKING ME OUT Glad I asked ! LOL :slight_smile:
OUCH ! I feel terrible about this ! I’m a fraud ! At the time I signed up,
of course, like so many of us; there were no such restrictions…

hyperscalper