I wouldn’t choose the word stateless. But the CFTC cannot revoke your citizenship. The worst they can do to you is force your broker to close your account or face heavy fines.
But they have no authority over a foreign business. And if the foreign business regulatory body chooses not to fine the broker, the CFTC has no power.
Bottom line is that all traders need to asses their goals and what bodies will help them achieve those goals. Work with those that will, forget those that don’t
Sman, what the CFTC is doing is unethical and unfair. But you’re exempt from these rules, if you have a 10 million dollar account. It’s obvious to me what is going on here and I wasn’t born yesterday. No one can ever justify what they are doing. The Dodd Frank forex provisions need to be abolished, plain and simple.
The 3-page Offshore Broker List has been moved to the beginning of this thread.
See Posts #1, #2 and #3.
Many thanks to Ananais (our super Moderator),
and the Babypips website developer (who shall remain nameless),
for making this happen.
Hey All,
New to the forum and this thread is very intriguing given whats on my mind.
I was wondering a couple of things and was hoping for some clarity from the brain trust:
If a US Citizen is an OWNER of physical metals, doesn’t he have rights (even according to rules and regs) to protect his position/avoid risk by OTC trading in CFDs in the physical metals he owns ? Isn’t there some expemtion due to his “producer/owner” positioning from some of the “participant” requirements according to Dodd Frank as well?
This is more in line with this thread I think: Has anyone had experience with opening an offhsore corp to legally navigate around the CFTC-micromanagment WHILE making certain they file all appropriate IRS (FBAR etc ) docs so the Gov sees there is no attempt at evasion, merely using legal means to accomplish Physical Metals OTC Swaps in a self directed situation?
Hope that makes sense, this is all new to me…
The U.S. government doesn’t want its citizens trading gold because it knows that we know it is going to go sky high when the dollar crashes.
Before the CFTC rules the brokers were taking advantage of the traders, more than 80 percent of new traders lost.
Today with Dodd Frank the lower leverage requirements and new rules new traders are staying in the market more.
I am not an expert on statistics but I tend to believe that your numbers are off and that your statement is made up. From what I read the percentage of loosing traders is around 92%, with or without the said bill. Traders who master discipline and methodology will profit in the markets and those who lack the discipline and skill will get eroded in the market, with or without government protection. The Dodd-Frank bill is to the financial industry what Obama care is to the health care industry and coming from the same insightful “well-meaning” administration. I don’t need the government to protect me from myself, thank you. Why do you?
Foreign exchange is a zero sum game, the Dodd Frank bill reduced the risk for newer traders that get exploited by veteran traders who profit from their inexperience.
Now they have lower risk in the learning curve with 50:1 leverage instead of 100:1 leverage.
92 percent of traders fail because the leverage of 100:1 is irresponsible for a broker to allow an inexperienced trader to use in the foreign exchange market.
Ok sman, the government is out to protect it’s traders right? Then answer this question, why does the government allow people to blow their life savings at casinos everyday? They are not very concerned about protecting their citizens then, are they? That is why I don’t buy the whole “I am protecting the citizens” argument. Regardless of whether or not they are protecting traders, they have no right to dictate to us what we can and cannot do with our money. Also, what’s with the anti hedging and FIFO rules, these are ridiculous and completely unnecessary. I will agree that I do not need 100:1 leverage on my trades, that is just asking for trouble in my opinion. But, no hedging and FIFO!? RIDICULOUS!! And the fact that having a 10 million dollar account makes individuals exempt from this rule makes my blood boil, they are simply buying out the priveledge of not having this rule with their large account. That is pure corruption, plain and simple! The government does not have our best interests at heart!! NO GOVERNMENT DOES!! I don’t know how many times I have to say this to drive that point home to people.
sman1109 I appreciate your consistency and respect your opinion for what it is, your opinion, though I’m unable to agree with it. You mean well but you direct your trust towards the government instead of We the People and this is where we differ. I can’t find in the American constitution an obligation for the government to make the financial markets safe for people to participate in the same way that it makes no obligation for the government to make casinos safe for people to play in - to extend liggy002‘s analogy. It’s clear that you have the smarts to trade at leverages that will keep your account safe but you lack the trust in other fellow traders to be just as smart. You also feel the obligation to protect those who do not have the smart to protect their account. In my opinion, this kind of traders will waste their account away at 1:20 leverage just as well, therefore, they will not be saved but an arbitrary rule. Like I said I do appreciate your opinion and glad to see you expressing it here in spite of the opposition you face. I wish you were in a minority but judging by the way our US of A is going, I tend to believe that I’m in a minority and you are in the majority.
If someone is an inexperienced Forex trader and doesn’t know what he/she is doing on Forex, he/she will blow their account with any leverage, however small. Don’t touch Forex if you don’t know what you’re doing there.
Nope. If leverage is small, no one will ever think to use his last $1000 on this. Because there will be no hope to win big , no “magic”. No trading - no loss. Who needs to work hard everyday with such a small money only to have… say $100 growth at the end of the month? 
Every beginner should have a fair opportunity to participate in Forex and every veteran trader knows losses are part of learning to trade Forex
These new CFTC rules merely ease the burden of those losses for new traders and makes the market a bit more fair to them
A fool will always find a way to part with his money. I thus see no need to also deprive the wise ones of their opportunities.
I really don’t see how FIFO and anti-hedging benefit new traders in any way.
One of my Friend were like to open live account with Hotforex but as he said he contacted with Hotforex support but they said they are not taking USA customers anymore. So Simply answer is Hotforex does not accept US customers.
You are correct. Thanks for the update. The Offshore Broker List has been updated to remove [B]Hot Forex[/B] from Group 1. (The Offshore Broker List is now post #1, #2, and #3 at the beginning of this thread.)
The Hot Forex website has been updated. If you are a U.S. resident, it is no longer possible to fill out their Live Account online application form — the first step in the process of opening a live account.
Their application form requires that you select your country of residence from a drop-down menu, but the menu does not contain “United States” as one of the choices available to you.
Isn’t that just great?
You can open an account with Hot Forex if you live anywhere on the planet
EXCEPT in the Nanny States of America.
Thank you, Chris Dodd. Thank you, Barney Frank. Thank you, Gary Gensler. Bunch of jerks.
Every American who cares about restoring liberty to this nation needs to join the movement
to overthrow the Fascist Ruling Class which has seized control of our government.
Let’s thoroughly clean house, starting with Obama.
The Hot Forex website has been updated. If you are a U.S. resident, it is no longer possible to fill out their Live Account online application form — the first step in the process of opening a live account.
Yes Clint, you are right, where are you from man ? and what is your FX experience so far ?
I’m a US citizen currently trading with FinFX as one of my brokers. I think it’s just a matter of time before the CFTC sues them as well. The first list of brokers the CFTC went after had a US presence. But the second had some brokers that appeared to be offshore only. I think it’s just a matter of time before the US government goes after FinFX as well.
So what I would like to do to protect that income stream is create an offshore company that can trade with FinFX. I’d be interested in hearing from anyone who has done this and is trading with that particular broker.
Thanks for any replies and if this is the worng thread for this question I apologize to the OP. Please redirect me.
Thanks!
Re: CFTC interference - From what I’ve read, it seems the CFTC might be relying on memorandums-of-understanding with some offshore brokers’ regulators to turn over the info to them. Since FinFX’ regulator is the Finnish national government, I doubt that they have entered into such an agreement; since it may be interpreted as a form of ‘economic aggression’ against a sovereign country. Furthermore, I have great respect for FinFX because they are the only broker I’ve come across that treats all client accounts (large and small) with the same high-level of care and privacy.
Re: Setting up an offshore business for trading – Current law requires information on all foreign businesses, owned by US citizens, be reported, annually, to the federal government. Who knows if some future ‘authorization’ might cause problems?
My personal solution is to relocate to places that are fiscally\physically
eighborhood friendly – so I can always remain free to enjoy ‘the good life’. I’ve lived in a few, but there are many more I have, yet, to explore… Check it out: and you too, may find that these days, ‘the grass really is greener on the other side’!