Give a single example of a business that does not bet money on an outcome that is uncertain.
-Adrian
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[QUOTE=ârindoan;690179â] I am not going to bother arguing the definition of gambling with you. I told you how I define it and to be honest I couldnât care less how you define it.[/QUOTE]
So often people default to the ânot caringâ line, and it always seems contradictory because you cared enough to debate it.
Furthermore, this wasnât an argument, unless you want to debate about that definition as well.
The driving point here, regardless of how words are defined is that an edge clearly can be obtained in Forex. As such, regardless whether itâs termed gambling, investing, or trading, one can clearly feel that they are in an assertive and confident position due to the high probability of their success that they can feel, and are perhaps, exempt of such definitions to begin with.
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âForex is gamblingâ, it is a moral statement. âI am more moral than you.â âI make an âhonest livingâ and you donât and that makes me better than you.â âForex traders are inferior people, gamblers in denial.â That is what they are saying.
People want the definition of gambling to swing wide enough to include trading so that they can equate it to what happens at a poker table, but then they want to carve away at that definition so it wonât include their own profession so they can pretend it is morally superior to trading. Once pressed to mend the inconsistencies in their definition, they tend to play a shell game; they hope to win their moral campaign by moving the goalposts. âNo the definition is âinsert whatever they need it to be to win at this pointâ.â
âForex is gamblingâ, it is a confession of an inferiority complex.
-Adrian
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Well, Iâm under the belief that one can carve a mathematical edge in poker. Iâm consistently 40% ITM and 30% ROI after a countless number of games spanning a decade. There is no house to fix the edge in their favor. Calculated odds can be deduced and exploited. To some degree that is possible in blackjack as well, but any exploitation from counting cards is forbidden.
From a general standpoint, I think people tend to say something is a gamble when the odds are not in their favor and the outcome is uncertain.
No one would rationally say they are gambling when they wake up in the morning, despite the fact that there are people that literally die every year from falling out of the bed.
The evaluation of risk is something that I have a genuine interest in. Built a career around it.
That statement is just beyond ridiculous.
I am a forex trader, I trade every day and in the last year I have made more money from trading forex than I have in my day job.
I still consider it gambling.
Since when did gambling have [B]anything[/B] to do with morals?
Just because you call it gambling does not automatically mean its something negative.
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[QUOTE=ârindoan;690194â] That statement is just beyond ridiculous. I am a forex trader, I trade every day and in the last year I have made more money from trading forex than I have in my day job. I still consider it gambling. Since when did gambling have anything to do with morals? Just because you call it gambling does not automatically mean its something negative.[/QUOTE]
Letâs not make income claims weâre not willing to back up. Fair?
Itâs been my experience that those that start making claims turn out to be full of it. Iâm sure you donât want to fall into that boat.
And I already know your retort as Iâve heard it a million times. No you donât have anything to prove to me. Then why make the claim to begin with?
Youâre attempting to assert your position in a debate by validating your argument with the idea that youâre a successful and profitable trader. Maybe so, but itâs still foolish and it doesnât add value to your argument.
Gambling is the production of risk for the purpose of a thrill. Business activities are the pursuit of economic gains which can entail the taking of risk. But many of such pursuits do not produce risk at all, they merely transfer risks that already exist from one party to another. Trading in financial instruments, like insurance, many times is just that way. It does not create risk; it only transfers it from one party to another one that is more capable of mitigating that risk, a critically needed feature of the human economy.
-Adrian
Maybe you donât, but you know that is what this discussion is about and why people get so emotional about it. We all have people of certain religious views around us that have virulently expressed their moral opposition to trading and have equivocated it with casino gambling and traders with economic parasites. This goes back to the old enmity between main street and wall street. Just last week a woman had a word with me because I was explaining trading to her teenage grandson. She definitely used the âgâ word.
-Adrian
Why would I not be willing to back it up?
Start November last year I changed broker from FXCM to IB if you inquire why it doesnât go further back in time.
My point still stand and I personally consider forex gambling.
[QUOTE=ârindoan;690205â] Why would I not be willing to back it up? <img src=â301 Moved Permanentlyâ/> Start November last year I changed broker from FXCM to IB if you inquire why it doesnât go further back in time. My point still stand and I personally consider forex gambling.[/QUOTE]
No, thatâs not backing it up. Third party verification with myfxbook or fxblue would certainly do the trick.
Anyone can pull up a screenshot of an account statement. These days thatâs worthless.
IB does not support either of those sites unfortunately, but sure lets just pretend I made it myself or found it online or whatever.
[QUOTE=ârindoan;690207â] IB does not support either of those sites unfortunately, but sure lets just pretend I made it myself or found it online or whatever.[/QUOTE]
Thatâs my assumption in general.
Precisely. Which is why the only time youâll experience this degree of denial is when you browse the retail boards. Itâs a combination of ignorance, naivety & fear.
Youâre wasting your time rabbiting with this lot.
Do what compact, shadowline & cator have obviously done.
Sit back & have a good old chortle at them trying hard to convince themselves theyâre not engaged in betting whenever they click in & out of order tickets on their execution platform 
[QUOTE=âdancat;690267â] Precisely. Which is why the only time youâll experience this degree of denial is when you browse the retail boards. Itâs a combination of ignorance, naivety & fear. Youâre wasting your time rabbiting with this lot. Do what compact, shadowline & cator have obviously done. Sit back & have a good old chortle at them trying hard to convince themselves theyâre not engaged in betting whenever they click in & out of order tickets on their execution platform :)[/QUOTE]
Itâs not a matter of denial. You are assuming I somehow believe gambling to be a bad thing. Not true. Iâm in Vegas at least once a year, love playing craps and roulette even though I willingly know that the odds are against me. However, I hope to get lucky. Sometimes I do, most times I donât. And Iâm fine with that because itâs designed that way.I could never win in the end.
Thatâs just not true with forex.
Those that call it gambling, either to not understand risk, do not understand the concept of an edge, or simply gamble themselves in Forex because they are hoping and d not know how to create an edge.
Further itâs not even a bet. Simply because I donât know the outcome of that individual trade is irrelevant when you have an edge. Because I know with certainty that if I repeatedly made the same bet, I will inherently profit.
Again, when Iâm at the casino, no one is looking at the dealer and saying that they are gambling the chips they have on the table. Why is that?
Because the casino has an edge.
it has some point same. but in forex market we can win with high profit. with gamble you can put your money and get back some money. but with forex market you can open order and win big money. this is different
It doesnt matter how you phrase it, if you dont know the outcome when you place your trade, and none of us do, then it is gambling.
Gambling that your âedgeâ, plan, gut-feeling, knowledge, instinct, whatever else you may want to call it, will come up trumps.
Stop kidding yourself otherwise.
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Itâs perfectly fine to call trading gambling, if and only if you call every other business gambling.
-Adrian
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LOLOLOLOLOLOL ⌠the complete nonsense that gets posted is a complete explanation as to why 90% lose money.
I no longer believe this figure of 90% of forex traders are losers, it has to be much higher on a long term basis.
Every system has a quantifiable statistical edge. Sometimes the edge is positive, for most it is negative, but it exists.
Similarly, every business has a quantifiable edge, some flourish, some go bankrupt.
Whether it is a trading plan or a business plan, spend your energy on being completely consistent with your plan. Because you do have a comprehensive and detailed and written trading plan, the same way a business has a written business plan, donât you?
Study the true results of what you are actually achieving and do not deceive yourself, âto thine own self be trueâ.
Modify and adjust when needed, not on a whim or a hunch, but through the use of rational thought and maths. Repeat the analysis to verify the results in the real world, not the fantasy imaginary world that most retail traders are inhabiting.
It also seems to be the world of the scammer, the fraudster, the marketing of the guru, and the investment funds with zero track record but promises of unlimited riches.
I had better stop since I am actually getting quite angry with the amount of scamming that is going on this board. It takes most people years of work to accumulate some capital. If a person makes ÂŁ50,000 a year, maybe they can save ÂŁ5,000. So ÂŁ10,000 that the scammers here want is TWO YEARS of toiling at a job to get that money. Two years of work that will be taken from them and wasted in so-called systems or investment funds that have zero chance of long term success from the beginning.
âEvery battle is won or lost before it beginsâ, â Sun Tzu; and that is certainly true of trading.
If a moderator wants to ban me, please feel free. I have tried to keep my comments civil, but it is simply unconscionable to allow some of the statements on this forum to go without challenge. To not challenge them implies acceptance, and frankly many threads should be outright deleted and the accounts of the marketers banned.
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Stick around long enough and youâll be numb to all the idiocies. Some threads are simply not worth getting involved in, but thereâs a couple gems every now and then. 
Just because there is risk involved in trading Forex, does not mean it is gambling. There is a certain degree of risk within all aspects of life. Would you consider driving gambling? Would you consider the consumption of food also gambling? Or like MG99 stated, getting out of bed?