How to beat the market makers?

ZoraEggs 2017-12-26 01:19:16 UTC #47

I am very interested in your project, I think it’s a great idea. One of the thing’s I keep reading about is how some brokers completely screw data during a news announcement, not just adding crazy spreads but also freezing the platform and even inserting completely false ticks. If there was a way to compare brokers by their tick quality we could have some kind of broker benchmark.

Manxx 2017-12-26 08:26:08 UTC #48

[quote=“ZoraEggs, post:47, topic:126495, full:true”]
One of the thing’s I keep reading about is how some brokers completely screw data during a news announcement, not just adding crazy spreads but also freezing the platform and even inserting completely false ticks. [/quote]
You are wise to study the possible pitfalls that may, and do, sometimes occur and to do due diligence concerning your eventual selection of a broker. But at the end of the day it is a leap of faith as to which one will be safest for you.

But if you spend too much time concentrating on seeking out devils on the walls and ghouls under the bed then you will certainly find some and there are plenty of scaremongers willing to help you with this.

But it is strange how you mention these types of broker issues but, like so many others, ignore the one ogre that will for sure, if you are not careful, rip out your financial intestines and feed them to the market vultures within a few months of your starting your scalping and news straddling - and that ogre is you.

It doesn’t take much to read through the tons of postings here how “95%” of new traders fail - but the reasons discussed about why this is are rarely related to the broker. Certainly, there are regularly various posts on specific “scam” instances, but the reasons for traders completely blowing the accounts are almost entirely due to a lack of education, understanding, training, knowledge, awareness, greed, inconsistency, risk mismanagement and so on.These are the areas you should be focusing on.

If you decide to buy a new car and read all the reviews, you will probably not find one mass-market model that does not have some bad reviews, and if you then read all the statistics about accident risks and injury/fatality occurences, you will probably conclude that one should not drive at all. But the best one can do is select the most appropriate car for one’s purposes and abilities and then concentrate on developing one’s own driving skills and road experience as much as one possibly can - even so the risk of accidents and repairs cannot be entirely eliminated - this is basis risk/consequence analysis.

But if you are really so scared of these risks from your broker then you would do better by forgetting trading and doing something else with your money - and you will probably ,at least statistically, end up better off as well!

…but this thread is now starting to repeat itself and I guess the main meat of this topic has been laid on the table. It is up to you to help yourself to what you fancy…

m.k.a 2017-12-26 08:28:11 UTC #49

well im happy to reply to you at least

that it guys all of it

ria_rose 2017-12-26 09:26:21 UTC #50

Thank you so much for clarifying this @Manxx. I am a newbie here myself. Reading the original post, I was very discouraged. But, because of this reply, I feel a bit enlightened.

Trendswithbenefits 2017-12-26 10:10:07 UTC #51

So there you have it… ZoraEggs & ria_rose… Invest your time and money for a 5% chance of success…

Problem with Forex… is that it is made to look winnable… when the reality is so far from that fact…

As you both will find.

Manxx 2017-12-26 11:14:10 UTC #52

Yep I have to agree, statistically the chances of consistent success is that small… But it is not inevitable… It just demands a huge amount of effort, work and dedication. It can be done!

soohia 2017-12-26 12:11:22 UTC #53

What’s the difference? They are no different to me, as a mini retail trader, no broker market maker or real market maker cares about my existence, as they don’t need to. But I do need care about their behavior in the market, no matter it is a robber or a police is making the market. This market needs money in and out to maintain its liquidity, retail traders are like cushion for big traders, are necessary to exist in the market. As retail traders don’t play that important role in the market, I do not expect to be treated like a god. If not happy with this broker, change to another one, though you think they are same coz those accept minitrader are not real broker, but I do found some difference that makes me happy with the alteration. The general scinories and root problems are too far to a minitrader’s daily trading, A minitrader will only believe what she believes during trading. Though it is good and worth time to know how my counterparty plays me in the game, and if they do play well, I would not mind to clap my hands for them.

ria_rose 2017-12-26 12:35:02 UTC #54

This is duly noted! I just have to ask, is it possible to go beyond that 5% chance of success? Have you done it before?

Also, thank you so much for answering questions from a newbie like me! I really appreciate it.

ria_rose 2017-12-26 12:38:20 UTC #55

I will keep this in mind. Good thing I’m very patient! I just hope you don’t mind me asking, how long did it take before you achieved a successful trading career?

Trendswithbenefits 2017-12-26 13:31:29 UTC #56

Hi ria_rose. Unfortunately No, I think 5% is the best odds for success the FX market will offer most traders.

Some traders are definitely making a living, some a small amount to supplement their income… but most are on the FX merry go round… Profit $50 this week, lose $60.00 next week, profit $25.00 the following week… so on and so on. Consistency is what the grail quest is all about…

I trade the daily charts, the 4 hour charts and even have bots that trade the tick charts with some success. It is a constant battle to stay profitable…it’s not like a job where you know you’ll get your $1000 on Friday. Some weeks are very profitable other weeks are break even. It took longer than I expected to move my accounts forward…

Once you start on a Demo account (please start on a Demo…), the thread will make much more sense.

Don’t be afraid to ask questions on these forums… if you don’t get an acceptable answer, search until you do. BP is a good starting point, but real information needs to be found elsewhere on the internet… information and knowledge is everything.

anon98339083 2017-12-26 13:53:47 UTC #57

soohia:

They are no different to me, as a mini retail trader, no broker market maker or real market maker cares about my existence, as they don’t need to. But I do need care about their behavior in the market, no matter it is a robber or a police is making the market. This market needs money in and out to maintain its liquidity, retail traders are like cushion for big traders, are necessary to exist in the market. As retail traders don’t play that important role in the market, I do not expect to be treated like a god. If not happy with this broker, change to another one, though you think they are same coz those accept minitrader are not real broker, but I do found some difference that makes me happy with the alteration. The general scinories and root problems are too far to a minitrader’s daily trading, A minitrader will only believe what she believes during trading. Though it is good and worth time to know how my counterparty plays me in the game, and if they do play well, I would not mind to clap my hands for them.

Absolutely right - and a very good summary of the situation.

Retail traders with smallish accounts have no alternative but to use a counterparty martker maker: what matters is to choose with care, look at their regulatory history and try to choose a better one, avoiding the obviously unethical and dishonest ones, and the ones clearly trying to attract the most naive and gullible customers because of what that tells us about how they choose to work.

Also completely correct.

ria_rose 2017-12-26 15:28:36 UTC #58

I got this, Trends! (Is it okay if I call you that? Hahaha.) I have been warned by my uncle about this kind of situation too. Sometimes, it makes me wonder why traders continue trading, especially given the “FX merry go round” scenarios. [quote=“Trendswithbenefits, post:56, topic:126495”]
BP is a good starting point, but real information needs to be found elsewhere on the internet… information and knowledge is everything.
[/quote]

This site has been so awesome for a beginner like me! But, if you could recommend other places where I could find more information, that would be a great help.

rrram2 2017-12-26 18:05:36 UTC #59

We (MarketMakers) deal in averages, we love it when it is 50%long and 50% short, only a fool enters an order at market, and we gladly will take the other side of all your trades all day and make you for the spread at least :Þ

Crash Helmets and "Stop Losses"

rrram2 2017-12-26 18:10:48 UTC #60

We (#MarketMakers) also place pending orders to take the other side of RT’s trades INSIDE the spread, we raise the bid quote (inside bid quote) & we lower the ask quote (inside ask quote).

We are not evil, nor so we need to “cheat” to get you to give us all your trading dollars with your silly “loss stop” orders.
#CLooPHONE #we make 90% of our money off your “stop loss orders” LOL

Falstaff 2017-12-27 00:28:29 UTC #61

Thank you for that @rrram2

We never get to see those details and it is highly educational to see what you see.

I have 3 questions if you would be so good as to answer,

The dotted lines on your chart at post 59 - what do they represent Please ? I note mainly they follow a similar slope, but a few are much steeper - are they stop - loss positions for teh individual trades ?
Between the spreads on post 60 you have a nimber of prices labelled “SL” - are they the positions of “STop loss orders” ? or are they the positions taken to cover the bets by “brokers”
“pending orders” bigger than “5” are highlighted - is that because you have them as “Targets”, Or are they the orders you have placed in the markets ?

rrram2 2018-01-01 19:44:37 UTC #62

the doted lines are trades which originate at one spot and terminate at the take profit point, blue for long red for short I think. the sharper the slope the more profit that was taken.

so in post 60, I am showing you in the middle, sell limit orders pending INSIDE the spread, I typically place orders inside the spread to take advantge of ignoraNT traders of any and all types.

I dont place stop loss orders to realize a loss, I place stop loss orders to lock in profits, so if I am up 10 pips I may set a stop loss order for 5 pips, so the minimum profit will be 5 pips. pending orders bigger than 5 lots are not really highlighted bu it is a graphical represenation with a line graph as to a visual of the volumne (total orders in lots) the more lots the further the "highlighting will continmue to the left. hope this helps!

oldpro007 2018-05-07 15:26:58 UTC #63

Congrats…your getting close to the truth…please continue to share with the newbies…forex…is the strict domain of the banks everyone else is merely the liquidity for them

forexcrisp 2018-06-09 09:12:26 UTC #64

There is low success rate for beginners we can say more than 50% are looser. However one can do careful trading for making low profits. If they do trading like demo with high lot and leverage success will be far from them .Plan their trading according to capital and market . You can not beat market just adjust your self with it .

VarSine 2018-06-18 22:16:30 UTC #65

You can beat the market makers and huge investors by understanding their psychology. The market makers never want to lose a single cent but they want to see loser for their win obviously. You always need to staybone step ahead from them! Best of luck!

Wonel 2018-06-20 22:10:49 UTC #66

It is really a good question and the answer is to work with full devotion in order to compete with them. You have to think like them, behave like them, and predict like them. It is never an easy job to do but it is a possible job. Believe in yourself!