How To Start Out in Automated Forex Trading (EA's)

[Nick_McDonald]

I appreciate your response. But please keep in mind that I did post it in Newbie Island, I wasn’t expecting to get a whole lot of serious traders looking for insights into how to code a profitable EA.

I don’t think you need to know how to code and EA to make money using automation. I think of it like this:

• A computer programmer might know how to create a fantastic game, but be terrible at playing it
• Most awesome gamers wouldn’t have any idea on how to create it

I think the same applies to automated forex trading. Just because you know how to code, doesn’t mean you know how to trade.

What I am trying to help people with is actually learn how to trade using automated systems that already exist (free and paid EA’s mainly)

[DreadTrade]

But please keep in mind that I did post it in Newbie Island, I wasn’t expecting to get a whole lot of serious traders looking for insights into how to code a profitable EA.

That is true. My apologies. Not everyone is looking for insights into how to code a profitable EA.

I don’t think you need to know how to code and EA to make money using automation. I think of it like this:

• A computer programmer might know how to create a fantastic game, but be terrible at playing it
• Most awesome gamers wouldn’t have any idea on how to create it

[B]I think the same applies to automated forex trading. Just because you know how to code, doesn’t mean you know how to trade.[/B]

No that does not [B]apply[/B] to forex.
I must repeat, that analogy is grossly inappropriate. I don’t know where to start criticizing it so I simply won’t.

An EA is a tool for trading forex. A game is not a tool. Furthermore an EA is like an autopilot mechanism. I don’t know why you even compared it to games.

Understanding how a tool works is very important in using it competently. Otherwise the tool will end up being misused.
Misused tool in forex world will kill an account.

Imagine a pilot in an aeroplane. Even though the pilot cannot make an aeroplane from scratch he does know how each of the knobs and control of aircraft functions and why it functions that way. He knows the aerodynamics that makes his plane fly. If he does not understand the mechanism he might end up killing a lot of people.

The same thing applies here too. If you don’t know how an EA works you don’t know its true weakness. You might end up killing your account.
You [B]need[/B] to be able to pop the hood and see the internals.

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t know for example how the SMA is programmed. But I definitely know how it works. However, an indicator is a but a small piece of code. Popular indicators are very well documented.
On the contrary an EA is a large piece of code.
One has to understand how an EA works and generates signals. I repeat; an EA is just a large piece of code. As such, it is prone to have different facets that one cannot understand by just looking into the documentation. (Provided that it is well documented)
Furthermore, I would have to dive into it and make sure that it is working as documented.
My point? To understand an EA you need to look into its code.
I hope everyone sees my point.

Furthermore, I checked your site. I checked the EAs you were offering and didn’t find them attractive [I]at all[/I]. The one with the highest return required a [B]RE-DEPOSIT[/B] because of large drawdowns. Moreover it was just tested on six months of data before being deemed profitable. Needless to say, I didn’t check the others. Maybe the others were more stable but you were offering this as a “solid tested” system. <flinch>

Sorry for being so mean spirited.
I understand your thread is not complete and I shouldn’t draw any conclusions this soon.
So if you can just prove me wrong and show us how to trade with EAs without understanding MQL4.
Looking forward to rest of the thread.

PS: Okay, I admit one does bot need to understand coding to trade an EA profitably. However the way you are presenting seems like a sales pitch. It pissed me off.
Anyway prove me wrong. Show us something useful.

[MoneyNVRSleeps]

Convert the EA to a script, should be fairly straightforward

1. Rename start() function in EA to start_0()
2. Create new start() function and call the start_0 function inside it:

int start()
{
    while(!IsStopped()) {
        start_0();
        Sleep(500);
    }
    return(0);
}

3. And don’t forget to tell MT4 that the code is now a script, by placing the mql4 file in the scripts folder

I cant seem to get this to work,

[MoneyNVRSleeps]

OK, might have gotten it right, now we wait for action,

[Fxmall]

And…how did it turn out? Just curious…

[Nick_McDonald]

The purpose of this thread seems to have been lost.

Just to clarify, the EA that you saw on our site didn’t have a redeposit. All the statistics are tracked through BOTH Myfxbook and MT4i.com You can look at the verified history in detail. So I’m not sure why you think there has been a redeposit.

We had a large drawdown, but the issue that caused the drawdown has been addressed. If you read up on it there is a full explaination.

Anyway, I’m not really interested in proving you wrong. I was more interested in explaining how to trade profitable automated systems.

I get heaps of people on my site that don’t have a clue how it works… hence the desire to start this thread.

If anyone actually has a desire to learn how to make money by trading automated systems please send me a message.

Thanks,

Nick

[HarriBabyPips]

I cant seem to get this to work,

What exactly happens/does not happen? Are there any error messages?
If you have the offline chart open, is it being updated with incoming tick prices?

[mrVynes]

Please continue, Nick. I’m not sure why these people are behaving so strangely. I mean since the start of this thread I was never under the impression that it was going to teach me how to code - I really don’t think a forum is appropriate for that anyway. I’m interested in learning about different EA’s and how I’d go about setting one up from scratch…as are many others I’m sure. This doesn’t mean I trust you, but please, continue :13:

[Chris85]

To understand an EA you need to look into its code

So if you can just prove me wrong and show us how to trade with EAs without understanding MQL4.

PS: Okay, I admit one does bot need to understand coding to trade an EA profitably

If the EA is well documented there is no need unless you want to reverse engineer it. A profitable EA is a profitable whether you know its code inside out or not and a crap EA will always be crap.

[ClarkFX]

If the EA is well documented there is no need unless you want to reverse engineer it. A profitable EA is a profitable whether you know its code inside out or not and a crap EA will always be crap.

A profitable EA is profitable under what market conditions? And a crap EA is crap why? How would you update it without knowing the rules? The market changes, the EA needs to adapt. As a trader you need to monitor the performance of the EA. If you don’t even know what you’re algo is doing how can you do any sort of planning?

Anyways, there’s no convincing people who are just starting out with these pre-made EAs. So I’ll step aside and let you discuss this stuff in peace. And you can be the judge after you’ve seen its results.

[Chris85]

A profitable EA is profitable under what market conditions? And a crap EA is crap why? How would you update it without knowing the rules? The market changes, the EA needs to adapt. As a trader you need to monitor the performance of the EA. If you don’t even know what you’re algo is doing how can you do any sort of planning?

Anyways, there’s no convincing people who are just starting out with these pre-made EAs. So I’ll step aside and let you discuss this stuff in peace. And you can be the judge after you’ve seen its results.

Read again “WELL DOCUMENTED” meaning explaining how the EA works but there is certainly no need to see the code and what each line does unless you have intention of stealing it.

Asking to see the code of a commercial EA is just dumb, this isnt even a question. If you think the EA is crap then dont buy it, its as simple as that.

Hey I want to buy your 10K EA but on a condition that you send me the source code too so I can modify it to suit the current market, well good luck with that LOL

Beside who is dumb enough to publish their source code if its profitable? are you willing to post your code right here?

[ClarkFX]

Read again “WELL DOCUMENTED” meaning explaining how the EA works but there is certainly no need to see the code and what each line does unless you have intention of stealing it.

Asking to see the code of a commercial EA is just dumb, this isnt even a question. If you think the EA is crap then dont buy it, its as simple as that.

Hey I want to buy your 10K EA but on a condition that you send me the source code too so I can modify it to suit the current market, well good luck with that LOL

Beside who is dumb enough to publish their source code if its profitable? are you willing to post your code right here?

As I don’t. And if you think you can make a million dollars off of them, please buy them, it only supports the winning traders.

If you’re going to argue so strongly about your position at least use some valid arguments. When did I say I’m selling my systems. Please, I would not sell my systems to anyone.

Beside who is dumb enough to publish their source code if its profitable?

Replace “source code” with “EA”, and I’d like to hear your answer to that.

[Master_Tang]

Beside who is dumb enough to publish their source code if its profitable?

The way I read it, that’s exactly Clark’s point. It’s not about source code, it’s about flexibility, and comprehension of what the EA’s objectives are. Too many parameters, and it’s useless to someone with no knowledge of what the algo is trying to accomplish. Most people that buy EAs, want a “works right out of the box set it and forget it” product. There’s no method out there that is that robust.

Which brings us back full circle to the fact that most easily obtained, highly advertised commercial EAs, aren’t worth the digital space they occupy. Published source code or not.

[Chris85]

The way I read it, that’s exactly Clark’s point. It’s not about source code, it’s about flexibility, and comprehension of what the EA’s objectives are. Too many parameters, and it’s useless to someone with no knowledge of what the algo is trying to accomplish. Most people that buy EAs, want a “works right out of the box set it and forget it” product. There’s no method out there that is that robust.

Which brings us back full circle to the fact that most easily obtained, highly advertised commercial EAs, aren’t worth the digital space they occupy. Published source code or not.

I believe there are some commercial EA out there that can make decent money, doesnt have to be the holy grail but if it can make a few 1000s people will buy it.

Think about it, if you have such system why not sell a 1000 copy at $200 a pop and make a nice profit for yourself as well as make your customer happy? Oh and you can always detune the public version and keep best one for yourself LOL.

I personally dont care about the OP, but if he can prove that his EA can make money consistently, backed up with forward/back test, have a good track record together with multiple happy customers only then I might consider…maybe thats not the case is the reason for the negativity in this thread?

[DreadTrade]

If the EA is well documented there is no need unless you want to reverse engineer it. A profitable EA is a profitable whether you know its code inside out or not and a crap EA will always be crap.

How do you know for sure if a “Well documented” EA is accurately documented if you don’t have source code?

[ClarkFX]

I believe there are some commercial EA out there that can make decent money, doesnt have to be the holy grail but if it can make a few 1000s people will buy it.

Think about it, if you have such system why not sell a 1000 copy at $200 a pop and make a nice profit for yourself as well as make your customer happy? Oh and you can always detune the public version and keep best one for yourself LOL.

I personally dont care about the OP, but if he can prove that his EA can make money consistently, backed up with forward/back test, have a good track record together with multiple happy customers only then I might consider…maybe thats not the case is the reason for the negativity in this thread?

You didn’t answer my question. Why would anyone sell a winning system?

[ClarkFX]

I believe there are some commercial EA out there that can make decent money, doesnt have to be the holy grail but if it can make a few 1000s people will buy it.

The only person who makes money will be the system seller.

Think about it, if you have such system why not sell a 1000 copy at $200 a pop and make a nice profit for yourself as well as make your customer happy? Oh and you can always detune the public version and keep best one for yourself LOL.

Only reason why they’d sell it is because it’s the only way they can make money.

Again, you’re going to have to lose some money before you get it. Oh well.

[DreadTrade]

You didn’t answer my question. [B]Why would anyone sell a winning system?[/B]

Maybe to help others and because they want others to be as successful as they are. :55:
Or
It doesn’t make money and they want to get paid for the time they spent making it.

[Chris85]

When did I say I’m selling my systems. Please, I would not sell my systems to anyone

LOL come on Clark, you can do better than that, can you not see it was thrown as a joke? You simply cannot expect the vendor to show you the code, why is this so difficult to understand?

You didn’t answer my question. Why would anyone sell a winning system?

Why would a pro trader offer a class and teach you to become profitable? you mean to say those mentor are not profitable? or are they just gonna tell you things they dont even do?

You are comparing a normal EA to a holy grail, it is obvious that holy grail will never be for sale. Something in between does sell and does make profit. If you look at birt’s site you can see some commercial robot there does make money and some dont.

I dont know about OP’s EA, I have not heard of it or have interest in it. I will only take a look if it had a good review from a reputable site and backed up by many more.

Tell me how profitable is your top secret EA? since it is not for sale? it must be good right?

[Chris85]

How do you know for sure if a “Well documented” EA is accurately documented if you don’t have source code?

LOL again, you wont get the source code, its as simple as that. If you really want it, then you better start learning how to crack and reverse engineer a code, maybe you can start selling too? I bet you wont be showing your code too right?

I have made firmwares and some of them took me years to develop and there is no way the public will ever get to see the code, for what? so they can steal it and profit of my years work?

Anyway, no one is pointing a gun at your head, if you think the ea is crap then dont buy it. Theres alot of site that talk about ea’s and alot of them are genuine users, so why not join them and see it for yourself, its your call at the end of the day.

True, the OP might be a scammer I dont know, but you got to understand why he keep it to himself. Its a take it or leave it situation, you have your money and he has his EA, no one have stolen anything here.