Margin Call Example

Hello all

A total noobie here after some help - I’ve read the following several times but seem to have a mental block understanding it:

Margin Calls: Example of a Forex Currency Trading Margin Call

Could someone please explain:

1 Why equity remains at $10K after buying 80 lots? Is this assuming no movement in price so the value of the trade remains $8k plus $2k to ‘play with’?

2 I’m sure this will be a really daft question but if leverage is 100:1 so you control $800K with $8K, losses are $2K and not $20 when the price moves down by 25 pips?

I’m sure there is a really simple explanation but as I say I’ve got somewhat of a mental block getting my head round it - those who know me won’t be so surprised to hear me say that! :o

I think I need a really explicit example with all the workings shown for me to work through so I can get this leverage/margin stuff clear in my mind if anyone would be so kind to oblige.

Otherwise those who wish to mock my feeble mind, feel free to do so! :smiley:

[B]Hi, red ear[/B] (by the way, how did you get that screen name?)

Since you are a self-confessed total newbie, let me tell you two things.

First, if some of this forex stuff is hard to grasp at first, don’t beat yourself up about it. We’ve all been there. We all started out as newbies, and had to grapple with new concepts, and a bunch of math, in order to understand this market.

You’re on the right path: you’re studying the BabyPips School; and when you need additional help, you’re asking questions. Congratulations for being one of those who go about this the right way.

Second, your link will undoubtedly get deleted by the Mod’s, because you have to have 50 posts to your credit before you’re allowed to post links. So, I’ll repeat your link here, where it won’t get deleted, so people can see what you’re referring to. Here’s the link:

Margin Calls: Example of a Forex Currency Trading Margin Call

Now, on to your questions. Here are the short answers:

[B]1.[/B] Yes. In the example, no change in price occured (and the initial loss represented by the spread was ignored).

[B]2.[/B] Ignore the 100:1 leverage for right now (we’ll talk more about that in a minute). In the example, the spy put on a position consisting of 80 mini-lots. Because the USD is the cross-currency in this example, the value of 1 pip = $1/mini-lot, which is $80 on an 80-mini-lot position. That’s $80 profit if the price rises 1 pip, and $80 loss if the price falls 1 pip. In the example, the price falls 25 pips. So, 25 pips x $80/pip = $2,000 loss.

Maybe you’re not quite clear on one or more of the following points:

The word “leverage” has two different meanings: (1) maximum allowable leverage, as determined by your broker, and (2) actual leverage used, as determined by you. In the example of the spy, the broker allowed a maximum of 100:1 leverage. But, the position put on by the spy was 80:1, because he bought 80 mini-lots with a $10,000 account. 80 mini-lots x 10,000 units of currency per mini-lot = 800,000 units. 800,000 units / $10,000 = 80:1.

Maximum allowable leverage, and margin, are two sides of the same coin. 100:1 maximum allowable leverage = 1% margin required = $100 margin required / mini-lot — because 1% of a $10,000 mini-lot is $100.

The margin required, each time the spy places a trade, will be $100 per mini-lot, regardless of how much leverage he actually uses. It might help you to think of margin as a security deposit which your broker requires you to post, and to imagine that this security deposit is actually deducted from your account and placed in an escrow account. You will get it back, when your position is closed. So, in the case of the spy, he bought 80 mini-lots, the broker took $8,000 “out of his account” for margin, which left the spy with only $2,000 to cover losses.

The example omitted the spread to simplify the explanation. If we put the spread back into the calculation, the spy’s transaction goes like this:

He buys 80 mini-lots. $8,000 of his money gets “escrowed”, leaving $2,000 Usable Margin, to cover losses.

The spread [B](which is an initial loss that he starts out with)[/B] gets subtracted from Usable Margin —
that is, 3 pips/mini-lot x 80 mini-lots x $1/ pip = $240 subtracted from Usable Margin to cover the spread.
Usable Margin now equals $1,760.

If the price now moves against the spy, each pip costs him $80 in Usable Margin. If the price moves 22 pips against him, all of the $1,760 is wiped out, and the broker automatically closes all of his 80 mini-lot position.

He now gets his $8,000 margin back, but he has taken a $2,000 loss ($240 due to the spread + $1,760 due to the adverse price move). His Account Balance is now $8,000. He has just blown 20% of his account — possibly in a matter of minutes.

Study these relationships, until you are able to explain them fully to another newbie.

By the way, we are all newbies. Some newbies are just “newer” than others.

Clint

A very high quality explanation [B]Clint[/B]!! :slight_smile: :wink:

[B]Congratulations at a very fine superb effort!![/B]

Sure you are not a teacher too?

The above quote is a very nice way of describing us.

Looking at what I do not know, I must be the newest of the newbies!! :o :o

I�m new at the forum and for what I�ve seen so far you are a great teacher: clear and specific answers. Do you own a blog I can check out? or a web site?
I�m sure that your information and analysis are great.

PS: I agree with you, the forex market is renewing tic by tic, every situation is a new trade experience and we have to be up-to-date, new and not-so-new traders
Regards!

Thanks for the generous compliment, Tymen.

No, I’m not a teacher.

Thank you, as well, Meagan.

No, I don’t have a blog or a website. Everything I have to say, I say here.

Thanks so much for replying!
I just noticed you�ve been in babypips for only 4months. How long have you been trading live? And studying the market? �

Regards!

Thanks for you help Clint.

I think my misunderstanding was due to getting mixed up with investing with stocks and shares where obviously if you invest $8000, your profit and loss is added or taken away from the $8000 whereas in forex, the $8000 as used in the example is used to hold/control the underlying forex of $800k on which the profit or loss arises i.e. so the used margin is a means to an end.

I had it in my head that a 1% margin meant you would only lose 1% of the actual loss on the trade whilst conversely you would only make a 1% profit on your trade if it was successful. Obviously it would be very hard to make a good wedge out of forex if this was true hence my confusion! :stuck_out_tongue:

OK onto my next question! This time regarding the 6th grade lesson specifically the second graph on:

Forex Momentum (Trend Following): Lagging Indicators for Forex Trading

If I’ve worked it out correctly, the 10 EMA is the orange line (as it more closely follows actual price due to its shorter time period) while the 20 EMA line is the blue one (as it lags more due to the higher time period and so is smoother). The second circle on the upper half of the graph highlights ‘Bearish EM crossover fakeout’ and I believe the 10 EMA line (orange) goes under the 20 EMA line (blue). However, the babypips lesson states

‘the 20 EMA crossed below the 10 EMA giving a �sell� signal’

Now have I got my interpretation of the the EMA lines wrong or is the explanation wrong? If I’m wrong (which is more than likel :D) then I think I need help with EMA lines!

BTW Clint, for my username, I sort of got my inspiration from red eye. Also red ear is a line of jeans made by Paul Smith, a reknown British designer.

PS Being from the other side of the pond I’m well versed in self deprecation so don’t worry about me beating myself up! :wink:

Hi, red ear

You’re right. It’s a typo. It should read, “the 10 EMA crossed below the 20 EMA …”

We never refer to the slower moving average line crossing the faster moving average line (whether they are simple moving averages, exponential moving averages, or so-called smoothed moving averages). [B]Always, the fast line does the crossing.[/B]

There are lots of typos in these lessons. For example, in this lesson, on the first chart shown, the moving averages are labeled “10-day” and “20-day”. But, this is a 1-hour chart, so the moving averages are 10-hour and 20-hour. Usually, we just refer to moving averages as 10-period, 20-period, etc., and it’s understood that “period” refers to the time-frame of the chart in question.

There’s an obvious typo in the lesson titled “Oscillators/Leading Indicators”, where it says, “the 1-hour chart of the USD/EUR …” We all know that there is no USD/EUR pair.

All of this just shows that you have to read everything (even the BabyPips School lessons) with a critical eye.

Clint