The “right” SL is the smallest SL.
Which trend would that be? Short term? Medium term? Long term? Who decides what the trend is? How do you decide which trend to trade? Most “pros” as in fund managers can’t beat the average. What “pros” are you talking about?
“I’m a pro trader…”
Does that mean you work for a large institution? Would you please describe a day in the life of a pro trader?
In responding to the request that someone is able to reveal the working system of an EA that does not lose trades, I posted proof that there is in fact a no loss trading system that already exist. I posted the url where the proof exists. It was deleted. I will not try to walk a tightrope while trying to encourage people to act civil while looking for new ideas. Ideas come from all over the place and, up until now, I had the highest respect for this website. While my regular forum is fine for research into the new concept of mathematical trading, it gives little stimulation in areas outside mathematical trading itself. I came here to look for new ideas. I am leaving because I perceive that there are none. The restrictions in how we can communicate is too old an idea to avail my research in any way. All offers of helping to develop a no loss swing trading system or to find out if it could be done at all, is regretfully rescinded.
Forex_Assist, don’t get too discouraged (or at least try to shake it off).
Robotic trading is new and there are so many crooks out there that if you mention something new, people think you are trying to scam them. Even when you’re not selling anything (I have nothing to sell).
Let’s face it, mutual funds dropped 50% last year and I heard on CNBC that more funds went into mutual funds this year than in previous years. Go figure!
I have been in “new design” in the work force for the last 30 years and can tell you that MOST PEOPLE are trapped in a world of “IT CAN’T BE DONE”.
Telling someone that robotic trading is better than manual trading is like telling them if you turn this cup upside down the contents will not spill out.
Just remember this “most people are un-helpable!”
Happy Trading!
Thank You for the post. I love to read interesting post that has knowledge to impart. These kinds of post are very helpful to me to increase my knowledge on different facts about life and other matters. I hope to read more articles from you and in return I will post also my articles in the forum so that others can benefit from it. Keep up the good work!
Its horses for courses i.e. depends what time frame chart your using. I look to the daily for the present PA direction and place trades on the 1h chart. If daily is down I have a short running and hedge the 1h.
The pros I was refering to our interbank traders and rest assured they certainly better ‘average’. 
Yes I work for a very large bank on the trading floor.
Here is a thrown in:
I want nothing to do with something that is “easy”.
I do not mean any disrespect to those that use trading systems. But I feel that by definition a system that really works in the short term will fail in the long run. I guess I am a proponent of the perfect market theory. If it works everyone will do it and it will work no longer.
Setting wide SL’s is a recipe for disaster. You may have a 90% success rate but get killed on that 10%.
R Carter has it right. Use your brain. Watch the price action. Be stingy with profits, Always know where you will get out of a losing trade and stick to it. The idea of hanging on until the market turns your loser to a winner so you can protect that winning percentage is deadly. With that strategy 3 months as a trader is generous…
As long as you believe you can’t do it, you’re right. YOU can’t.
Valkryder,
This is most interesting.
A few questions.
- Whats your SL? I presume your TP of 50 -100 depends of the SR.
- How many open trades do you allowed yourself?
- What TF do you watch for your limit orders?
Thanks you.
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As I said in my post, I do not use stops losses. Where one might normally place an SL, I place a limit order instead. Yes, it does depend somewhat on the SR where I place TP but also what previous PA indicates. I use Fibonacci retracements/extensions and Regression Channels to determine my SRs.
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Depends. I have sometimes up to 6 or 7, but normally 2-4. Last couple days only 1. If price is swinging wide, I will usually end up with more. Currently I have no open trades. Yesterday I had a Sell Limit at 1.5140 on EURUSD that got hit on a spike, I make a quick 50 pips off of that trade.
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I like to use the 4hr and the daily chart to set up my SRs. But then I watch them at the 1 hour TF.
Feel free to ask any questions. Like I said, I am in the testing stages of this method trying to determine the optimal lot sizes to use as well as where TPs should be placed. My goal is consistency.
Valkryder,
Thanks for your fast reply. I’m sorry, i don’t get you about the SL part.
How do you get 9 losses if there is no SL.?
I can understand your entries as well as TPs. But i’m lost on that SL thing.
Í’m testing a strategy on EU as well without SL. Well, i do have an SL(300pips) but that is just for emergency.But the key difference compared to yours is that i use some kind of hedging ie buy and sell using SR as well as bollingerband/stoch combo for entries. The max open trades is 6-8.
If there is any way we can compare notes and maybe finetune our system getting the best out of each other, that will be great.
Regards
Buy limit yesterday hit on EU at 1.4800, took proft manually today at 1.4868. Reset Buy limit at 1.4800.
Very interesting thread.
I think it is completely within reason to trade successfully without using S/L.
I have my own system under construction that given a little more time to perfect, I will post more notes on.
This is a quick rundown so far.
I primarily scalp, using 3 to 5 positions, looking for anywhere from 1 to 50 pips. Every trade starts as a scalp for me, with a set limit 5 pips above, or below where I entered the trade. I’m not afraid to sell out at no gain if it moves against me. The sidelines with no real loss other than the spread, is better than using all my margin to wait out a protracted retracement.
If it goes better than expected, I will move the limit, and ride it up or down looking for bigger gains. If the trading pattern I’m in doesn’t warrant bigger gains, I will let the limit take me out of the trade as sometimes it’s only there for a split second, and there would be no way to catch it manually
I use a naked chart, no MAs, stochastics, RSIs, bollingers, MACDs, or anything else of the ilk. I trade around chart patterns, mostly using sharply formed flags, and pennants, with a good idea of support and resistance levels.
(Yes Xtraction, they ARE a reality.)
If at the time the buyers are in control, and there’s an up trend, I only buy in.
If the sellers are pushing the price down, I only sell in.
I don’t like sideways patterns, but I will trade them using the direction they entered the pattern from. However, I would much rather trade when there is a noticeable move, up or down.
If the moves are an even pattern say 15 pips up, and roughly 12 down resulting in an up trend, I don’t want all 15, I let it show me it’s headed up, and try for 8 pips. If it stalls out close to the top, and doesn’t finish the move quick enough, I’ll sell out manually, not wanting to risk losing good gains.
I use 5 and 15 minute candlestick charts, with a good look at the daily, and weekly prior to trading. I also pay close attention to reversal patterns, and the timing, and range of the patterns I’m trading.
I have a live account, and have used my system successfully in small doses. Early on in this thing I went live with far too little experience, and burned myself fairly well. To the tune of a 4,000 dollar hit with one trade, not to mention the many little bites of 400 or so.
Hindsight tells me what I did wrong, and that’s why I don’t buck trends, and only trade in direction. I’m sure one of these days, the price of the Aussie will return to .7984, but I would be broke waiting on it.
I pay special attention to major announcements, preferring to reap the rewards of a retrace rather than risk being incorrect in trying to guess a big move’s direction.
I sit out nights where there is less that a 20 pip movement on the currency I am trading. Ironically, I have also noticed those tend to come before major announcements. Price action seems to die prior to those, especially the interest rates, home sales, GDPs, and jobs numbers.
I trade EU, AU, and BP mostly. Not above a Yen trade or two, but don’t do it often
I’m on the west coast USA, my fave trade times are from any time after 6:00PM to 1:00AM or so. I don’t like the mornings when Wall street is busy, there’s just too much noise.
I do have to baby sit it, but that’s okay with me, I find the whole thing fascinating.
I’m still working on refinements, and I do have a strict set of rules that limit trading on some nights, but the results have been rather encouraging. I started a fresh demo account in August with 50k, and it now stands at 369k
And that is after a couple of monumental losses. I tried a couple of trades using setups from gurus on other sites using improbable position sizes. One of them netted me a 68,000 loss. Hey, a 125 pip drop with 50 positions will do that:P
The biggest single loss I have taken using my normal size of positions is 3800. And to be honest, the price actually came back to me, it wound up taking a week, but I didn’t want to wait however long it was going to take, to trade the Euro.
My average night when it fits my requirements for trading, is approximately 3,000 with 20 percent of that being trade costs for a 2,400 net. When the conditions are right, I have done much better than 3k. There’s usually no overnight trades unless I screwed myself up.
It’s usually 4 nights or so a week that work on average.
If the setups are there, I can get anywhere from 10 to 15 trades a night.
My broker spread is one pip with a 100k position, and two with a mini.
There have been many nights where I’ve gone 100 percent.
For the purposes of this thread, I will start keeping better track, and post the results, be they good or bad.
Looking forward to reading more on this from others as well.
When do you say “uncle”?
Not often.
My stop loss is usually on the winning side of the trade;)
Reentered EU long @ 1.4785. TP is set to 1.4850.
Yes I think it has. PA has double wicked on the daily TF chart and stepped inside a 2:1 boll. All things considered though probably better value to take a long on GU or GY.
Master Tang,
Its interesting to read of traders who are successful without any SL.
Although its relatively a short period ie 4 mths, the results is phenomenal.
Are they on Demo?
Ive tried trading demo and subsequently live accounts since 2 year ago trading similar to what you are doing but with dismal outcome.
My problem is taking 50 steps forward and then one hugh step backwards which wipes out all my earnings.
You mentioned all your entries are with the long term trends ie Daily/Weekly, meaning that your EU trades should be all longs until lastweek when it looks like the long term trend decided to head south. How do you managed those long open trades without sl when it reverses?
I read your post with great interest as what you have been doing is very similar to what i do but the results are very different. You must be doing something right which clearly i wasn’t.
You trade pennant, flags etc, but i guess that you do not enter the breaks when its counter trend to the long term trends?
How do you money manage your trades? Eg position sizing etc.
There are noises trading the 5mins/15 mins. How do you reconcile with the long term trends? The chart patterns in the 5/15 mins says one thing contrary to the longer term trend. Do you still take the trade if that is the case?
I’ve given up trading this way recently demotivated by the losses incurred, but after reading your post, i may want to return to them if i can get some unanswered questions. You just lighted a spark in my long dark tunnel.
Regards
Actually last week I was shorting the Euro.
I was flat prior to the US jobs announcement that boosted the dollar considerably, and saw a big change on the weekly Euro chart sticks that had me thinking the Euro slide was going to continue.
It did.
There was a bearish flag that developed until Friday morning when it dropped again completing the pattern. Thursday night was a very slow right before US retail, and consumer confidence announcements, So there was no trading there.
Just so you know, I do sell out for losses, I just do it manually
I didn’t have to this last week, I had a nice little consolidation pattern to use for s/r. I sold at the resistance level, and hit a few trades for much more than the normal 5 pips.
It was mostly demo trading through the week, I’ve been busy at work, and my trade time has been somewhat limited.
As for my account, yes I do have a live one, and I do trade it occasionally when I am 99% certain what I’m seeing will happen according to the charts.