Ideally I try to aim for 1 to 1.5 Risk Reward with average 45 Pip Stop, 50 to 70 Pip Gains.
But sometimes if the Setup is strong enough, I use 60 to 100 Pips Stops which means an inverted RiskReward. But as long as the Risk% is still within the 4% maximum, doesnt really matter. Anoher difference in thinking between Demo Contest thqt focus on Pips compared to Live where % Risk and Return are what matter more.
So for example, this was the case with the AUD NZD trade couple weeks ago…To best protect the trade with a Stop Loss that was far enough and at the safest place on the 4H, it was placed around 90 Pips I think from Entry at the Resistance Point, aiming for 49 Pips…
I was actually hesistsnt about it because it was much larger than the average of 45 Pips for this strategy. But with profitable trading opportunities in this market, not all are gonna be perfect…with the ideal Risk Reward.
this is absolutely correct.
there is a saying… if you keep searching for something and never give up, you will eventually find it.
but HERE’S THE CATCH
yes… you will eventually find a mentor
as a fact, i could be that mentor (so, for this example, let’s say you just found me after searching for 3 years)
and i DO trade successfully and i DO TEACH
so that criteria is satisfied
but here is the thing now…
When you find that person… the question is… WILL THEY WANT TO TEACH YOU
also
HOW MUCH MONEY WILL YOU LOSE GETTING SCAMMED BEFORE YOU FIND THEM
you have to consider this
True…but there is also the cost of trying to do it on your own too for too long!!.
Best approach…find someone who
Does offer to teach
Has a Strategy you like
Has a strategy with Evidence it works
Not too expensive but not too cheap either!
Has a public profile…website…blog…twitter etc. where you can see their costs and what they provide upfront and you can shame them publicly with your complaints if they are scammers or provide poor quality service. Some payment interface companies like PayPal even allow you to demand refunds etc
I doubt scammers would want to be very visible.
This will help to narrow the search…reduce chances of scamming…BUT…
Many times people get accustomed to free and cheap things and dont consider the fact that if it is more expensive AND it clearly shows it can provide what they want…then it is probably worth it.
that’s true… but… YOUR POINT IS…??? what?
because the cost of doing it on your own is far less than getting someone to mentor you.
let’s use this as an example
if i was to mentor someone, i would charge no less than $300 per hour, now, let’s say that a spectrum of prices would be as follows
say… $150 per hour to around $500 per hour
and let’s say that you were serious about this, and you had , say 3 lesson a week and used the off days to practice, as opposed t paying for each day
and let’s say that the mentor was with you for around 10 hours, which is not hard to do in forex
ok, so we are talking about $1,500 a day to around $5,000 a day with a rough average price of around $3,500 per day let’s round it off to $,3000 to make the math easy
now on 3 lessons a day, that’s an investment of $9,000 a week
DO YOU STILL THINK THE BEST APPROACH IS TO FIND SOMEONE ?
Your other option
find someone cheaper, but IF YOU DO , you risk getting knowledge that won’t get anywhere, so , you not only waste time, but MONEY AS WELL
now. a Mentor might be able to get you into shape within a year and let’s chalk the trading year up to 45 weeks
so $9,000 x 45 = $405,000
that’s based on $300 per hour
Now. any mentor worth his salt is not going to help you for ANYTHING UNDER $200 per hour.
anyone that does, probably does not know what they are doing
so compare that $405,000 let’s even knock off $100k and call it $300,000 Just for fun
compare that to some $30,000 that one might invest over a few years to get it right
Mate, it’s better to learn on your own
let me address these points TO BE FAIR
in all fairness… (i’m not being rude, but understand me on this)
WHO CARES IF YOU LIKE IT… no one is asking if you like it. this is not a birthday party with party poppers and fun, it’s trading
you are probably not going to like it, but it will be profitable.
if you are looking for something that you like… Keep looking
next point
yeah… like no one’s ever put up evidence before.
Mate, it’s not hard to show a newbie evidence that something SUPPOSEDLY works
so… this is not a point that the newbies can use either
i mean…Look at the greg secker system, learn to trade
greg gets up on a stage
HE PROVES THAT IT WORKS (supposedly) then sells you on it
greg has a strategy, and he shows evidence
so does Josh Martinez London daybreak strategy, Josh even gets people to come on you tube and TESTIFY to it’s validity just to rub it in
Mate, this means nothing , no offense, but it doesn’t
it’s not like you asked an expert to look for evidence of the system working
You’re asking a newbie who doesn’t know what to look for… TO LOOK FOR IT
it’s not going to happen.
this is why it won’t work and this SHOULD BE A BIG RED FLAG for everyone
if someone charges you $50 per hour or less… BE VERY VERY CAUTIOUS.
and as for TOO EXPENSIVE… what is TOO EXPENSIVE
are you going to say that $300 per hour is too expensive.
do you really think it is, when you consider what is being taught and me taking my time out to teach a newbie and stuffing around with all that… Mate, the figure should be closer to a Grand per hour if you think about it
but, OF COURSE, newbies will whinge about this
which comes to my point … IT’S NOT WORTH TEACHING THEM, and for this reason amongst many others.
at the end of the day, they don’t care about me, they care about making money
so why should i also not care about that
now… considering that i would be willing to teach if i was properly compensated for my time… WHY THEN DO THEY WHINGE when i take what is reasonable
so… you see mate, anyone who charges under $100 per hour is not really going to be a mentor they want to be with.
they are more likely to be SOMEONE WHO KNOWS MORE THAN THEY DO. but this does not mean they know how to trade.
this doesn’t mean anything either
scammers have paypal
scammers have costs on their site… so what ?
shaming them is not going to mean anything, THEY PREPARE FOR THIS BEFORE THEY RUN THE SCAM
this is true
but they also APPEAR VISIBLE while being invisible
so bottom line, like i said
from our side of the fence… NOT WORTH IT
from the newbies side of the fence… DO IT YOURSELF… it’s much safer and better in the long run
T, here is what you need to do, PM MartinK every day for a week or so, he will eventually give you his “secret sauce” for trading success. He loves the PM attention, it is what keeps him going, and we have to keep him busy or he gets into trouble with Clint.
Actually, No i don’t
believe it or not, i’ve received like 3 PM’s since i started here (since my break) so… since December i think.
i don’t get a lot of PM’s (if you don’t count the Mods PM’s)
and No, i won’t give my sauce out… it’s my sauce mate. I’ll give a little assistance, but not the secret sauce.
and if they asked me to mentor them
HERE IT IS… (ALL JOKES ASIDE)
My Criteria if i am to accept a trainee
Before money… i want to know they are not going to quit, and saying “Trust me , i’m not going to quit” doesn’t prove it
i want to know if the person has the stones to stick with it for like 3 years if need be
i want to know if they can put up with my BS for 3 years even if they disgaree with me (this right here would probably be a deal breaker for most) hehe… Ok i said no jokes… sorry
now seriously again
i would want to see if they can digest the knowledge, if they had the sufficient intelligence to get through the crap of it
i would want to know how they stand emotionally and how they handle stress and loss of large amounts of money
i would want to know if they have goals
i would want to know where they are financially in their life and why they started trading
AFTER ALL THAT
i would realistically tell them up front, it’s going to be around $300 per hour, maybe $200 (Depending on circumstances) but i would not consider it for less than that
i would need them to agree to not whinge about the hourly rate
i would need them to agree to not whinge about losing and not have tantrums
this is what i need if am to be someone’s mentor
i have not see anyone IN A LONG TIME that can satisfy that
after all, i’m not here to babysit and listen to whinging, i’m here (if they like) to teach them to trade. and maybe have a laugh along the way and i would like to think that when they come out of the end of it and are trading successfully, that
They can make all that money back that was invested
they can buy their own home paid in cash
that i could feel proud when they thank me for helping them change their lives
i certainly hope so
but, again… NOT MANY PEOPLE CAN DO THIS
i won’t waste time with anyone who can’t, because I KNOW HOW IT TURNS OUT hehe, and i suspect… so do you ?
like i said, NOT WORTH IT
but… You love starting Shyte, don’t you mate
The Every Shyte Starting Viper
if me and clint met up in a field one day , you’d be on the side lines chanting… FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT… FIGHT HEHE
you know it’s true
Wow…some interesting points Martin…some valid…some not so much
The main point is…if you are trying to learn on your own but nothing is happening…you keep losing…shouldnt you get help? In an industry where 95% fail…is it worth it to keep doing it on your own instead of getting help from someone in the 5%? Its just a more rationale approach.
Why continue trying to fix your car with less experience instead of carrying it to your dealer? Yes it feels good to try and do it yourslef but if the experts are available…and you arent getting anywhere and your car parts are all over the driveway and you dont know which parts to order…and you need to drive to get on with your life…doesnt it make more sense to get help?
1.Cost of Mentor
$300 to 500 an Hour…? Really? You are using 1 extreme cost example you made up to generalize. Did you do a survey to see if the Mentors who are worth it charge this much? And those who are not charge less than this? Otherwise how do you know?
2.Strategy they Like
By this I meant it met the criteria that they have established. Example
…If they have a Job and family…can the strategy be used without affecting their life?
…if they dont like staring in front of the screen because it is just not healthy…can the strategy be profitable without having them handcuffed to their screen?
…if they have decided they want a 5% or 10% return per month because this is what will make Forex worth the effort…does the Strategy give them this?
What Newbies want…
True…sometimes newbies arent sure what they want. Thats why a Mentor is needed to help in this regard.
How can it NOT be important to find something that works WITH evidence? Seriously? In a world of scammers? And a 95% failure rate?
A distinction has to be made between a Stand alone Strategy and a Complete System…and maybe I should use the term System instead.
That London open is an example if a Strategy that works in the Short Term… that is not enough to be profitatble long term. A System is more comprehensive and has more safeguards in place to make it sustainable. So if one searches for Mentors with Systems …much better off.
Point is…whether youre searching for a Mentor or doing it on your own…you have to establish certain criteria to protect yourself and reach a clear goal to determine if its worth it…otherwise you will be wasting your time.
I think your beating about the bush… First of all, I doubt that anyone would spend 1500-3000$ a day to learn in a better way, because even if they completely lose a 100000$ account, they will be losing less money than taking lessons at that price. Even Nial Fuller’s course or some similar to it are just 300$ and you have life-time access to his community to take some advice. Anyway, I will try to test on my own, by now I have been succesful, so I will keep on that.
yes you should, but i think the problem is two fold
the Main issue starts with the trader and that they start trading forex thinking it’s a get rich quick thing, with not much effort required.
Hypothetically, if they started, super committed, it wouldn’t be as much of an issue, but they don’t.
then you have the fee that is required for training to cover the cost of the person training them.
which is understandable . Everyone has to be compensated for their time.
but again, here the problem is they expect it to be super cheap and to make riches beyond their wildest dreams
sadly it doesn’t work like that.
so… get help… YES
my suggestion is … pick up bits and pieces of knowledge where you can for free, instead of getting one mentor to show you everything
i believe getting inputs from multiple people is better than getting an entire course from 1 person.
another Point… NO
you should change what you are doing, because it’s obviously not working.
ok, ASSUMING THE 5% ARE HONEST AND ARE WILLING TO WORK FOR PEANUTS… YES, IT’S LOGICAL
but they are not
you gotta understand this… i’m gonna say something now… IT’S GONNA UPSET PEOPLE, but it’s the truth
the guys that know how to trade . SEE THE NEWBIES AS IDIOTS AND STUPID, because FOR THE MOST PART THEY ARE (not all of them are) but around 99.9% are
and that being the case, it is clear they will not succeed . so. here is what happens.
and here is why you get so many scam courses
since the newbies won’t succeed and they WILL LOSE THEIR MONEY , the course providors figure logically. WELL. WE SHOULD BE THE ONE TO TAKE THEIR MONEY BEFORE SOMEONE ELSE DOES
i mean… the end result is the same , they still end up broke,
but why not have them give their money to us before they go broke
THAT’S HOW THE MAJORITY OF THEONES THAT KNOW HOW TO TRADE THINK
newbies are an asset that generates income and there are so many of them lining up to Get stuffed over.
it’s like there is a line and they are yelling ME… ME… PICK ME FIRST… SCAM ME FIRST…
it’s nuts
so do you really see the logic in approaching these people for mentorship…NO MATE.
Statistically speaking, you are highly likely to get scammed in your effort to avoid scams (and… i’m being dead honest with you here… ok)
it’s more productive to understand WHY THEY FAIL and then DON’T BE LIKE THEM
3 Main Points
dont’ be emotional
Don’t be greedy
have a plan
right there you just eliminated around 70% of the reason of why people fail
it certainly is
you need help along the way and you’ll pick up pieces of information that are useful, even from the scammers
but do it on your own (THAT’S FREE ADVICE AND VERY GOOD ADVICE)
yeah of course, let the dealer charge you 3 - 4 times more … totally correct
or here’s another idea
go to a site that teaches you how to troubleshoot a car so that the majority of stuff you can do yourself
and get the mechanic to do the big stuff
or
(as is the case here)
Become a Mechanic… go to TAFE for 3 years
same deal here, you are going spend around 2 - 3 years learning how to trade anyway… aren’t you?
if you want to take the approach of , take it to the mechanic or dealer
WELL. OK
BE AN INVESTOR AND TAKE IT TO THE INVESTOR TO INVEST FOR YOU AND PAY A FEE FOR A GUARANTEED RETURN
but… the fee will be small
but you are here because YOU WANT TO TRADE
hence, YOU WANT TO BE THE MECHANIC
so… yeah…
Exactly. IF they are available
ARE THEY ???
No… it makes more sense to have not pulled the car apart before you knew you could put it back together
you should know how to find part numbers on parts so you know which part to order
and if you don’t know these things… CALL A TAXI so you can get on with your life
before you pull the car apart, YOU SHOULD OF HAD A PLAN
A Survey hehe
What for ?
yes Really, this is what people charge, this is a normal cost in business, especially finance
go to a finance expert and ask to create a financial portfolio that takes a few hours say 3 - 4 hours, Watch them charge you $5,500 for a basic portfolio and plan, that’s more than $1,000 per hour THIS IS NORMAL… ok
i can understand why you think this is a big figure
but YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THIS IS NORMAL
and also… THIS WOULD BE MY RATE… i don’t need to do a survey to know what my time is worth.
as far as i’m concerned (and not being rude) i don’t need to mentor people, but KEEP IN MIND if someone approaches me for it, it would not be smart for me to drop everything i’m doing and the money that i’m making to babysit someone for like $50 per hour, that would be stupid on my part.
so… yeah… this is normal
I understood what you meant
but my point was…
newbies always like to dictate what THEY WANT
with respect, you need to understand YOU DON’T REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU WANT,
sometimes in life, you need to go through crap that you don’t want to go through to get to what you really want
let me show you …
and… I’m guessing that you want to hear YES = it’s good And NO = It’s bad
well. CONSIDER THIS
there life is shit because of what it is and their habits
meaning… THERE LIFE NEEDS TO CHANGE and it needs TO BE AFFECTED
you said… will it affect their job… STUFF THEIR JOB.
Mate, seriously, i have in the past put people in positions where they were forced to lose their jobs, they now earn 5x more because they were put in that position and needed TO ADAPT
the easy road is HANG ONTO YOUR JOB
but consider that Most people have a crap job anyway that pays crap money
WHICH IS WHY ARE HERE IN FOREX TO BEGIN WITH
and then… you want to say something like… I DON’T WANT IT TO AFFECT MY JOB hehe… Seriously… cmon mate… think about it
to become successful means YOU HAVE TO CHANGE WHO YOU ARE NOW … ok
YOUR LIFE HAS TO CHANGE
YOUR JOB HAS TO CHANGE
YOUR FINANCIAL SITUATION HAS TO CHANGE
YOUR LIFE HAS TO BE TURNED UPSIDE DOWN because, now. it’s not working… right
so… if you are after someone to mentor you that WON’T AFFECT YOUR LIFE… good luck with that, you’ll probably get scammed.
well.
first of all i would say… don’t be so sensitive
i mean, you are wanting financial freedom, yet you don’t want to stare at screens
mate, i have epilepsy ok… and i’m not whinging about staring at screens…
you have no excuse
but LUCKY FOR YOU THOUGH… yes, it can bee achieved without a lot of screen time,
but, in the beginning when learning, you do need to be in front of the screens a lot
later, you can relax with that
it depends though
if you are a scalper… you’ll have tonnes of screen time
if you are a person that places a trade for a few days, it’ll be different
yes.
if it’s a strategy that works… YES IT DOES
sure, and i’m happy to talk to someone FOR FREE to get them to understand this stage. thats’ not a problem at all
but… goals and priorities are important , there is no point trying to earn money if you don’t know what you are earning it for.
i think you missed my point.
my point was… THE EVIDENCE IS BS… you will be lied to , they will call it evidence but it will be BS.
the point is … newbies don’t know what evidence is to begin with, thats’ why there is no point asking for it.
you can use the term system or strategy… I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN EITHER WAY.
here is my point about newbies
look at all this that you said
ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU BECAME AN EXPERT ON WHAT IS DEFINED AS THIS AND THAT AND SO ON
mate, Call it whatever you want. I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN… OK
AND Incidentally, your points are mistake… but… it doesn’t really matter, i’m just saying . ok
don’t get too hung up on this stuff. it doesn’t help you make money.
no, generally you’ll get scammed
right
now let me ask you this
if i was 30 years old and you were 13years old and we were going to be in a fight.
you need to establish certain criteria to protect yourself so you can win
WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU PLANNING TO DO ?
YOU DON’T KNOW ANYTHING, but, you think you do
let’s say you were 19… which makes it worse
you now think YOU REALLY REALLY KNOW, and still you’d get your arse handed to you on a platter
Point is…
yes… you need to establish a clear way to protect yourself (this is very important)
yes… you need to have a clear goal
and yes… if you don’t have these things you are wasting your time…
of course, this is correct
BUT… you don’t know how to protect yourself, you are just repeating what others who don’t know have told you and TO YOU … IT SOUNDS LOGICAL
then… watch how you lose all your money
You are the 13 year old who thinks they can win
the Market is the 40 year old that will kick your arse without breaking a sweat and laugh when you are on the ground
YOU NEED TO ACCEPT THAT YOU ARE DEALING WITH A SUPERIOR OPPONENT
Now here’s the million dollar question
HOW DO YOU PROTECT YOURSELF AGAINST SAID OPPONENT
they have been doing this for over 100 years
How long have you been doing it for ?
think about that
some fights … it’s best to walk away
others, you need a plan, but MAKE SURE YOU KNOW HOW TO KEEP YOUR HANDS UP TO PROTECT YOUR FACE,
don’t just put your hands up at your chin LIKE YOU SEE IN BOXING MOVIES, because you’ll got a hook to the temple… simple as that
yes, and they usually don’t have that money because their life has bad habits that stop them from achieving that
the main problem is habits, not money.
and… No problem… then do that hehe
after all the logic is… IT’S NOT A LOT OF MONEY… RIGHT ?
that’s great, that’s what you should do
i’m not saying , people should take me for mentoring
i’m just saying IF THEY WANT TO, this is what i would charge to make it worth my time, that’s all
also, i’m trying to give people A REAL UNDERSTANDING of what it means if you REALLY WANT REAL ADVICE THAT WORKS, that’s all it is
i’m not baiting people here… ok
i’m telling you something that people won’t tell you… so LEARN FROM IT
i don’t care if you or people don’t go with me
i don’t have a “system” that i advertise
i couldn’t care less
i already know people will not accept these prices. that’s obvious.
my concern is about me and my wife,
the newbies in the forex industry are not my concern, and fact is… they will lose for the most part
i try to help where i can
but … if the subject of MENTORING comes up, well… this is what it will cost
and… the subject always ends the same way
Oh martin, you’ve gotta be kidding, that’s a rip off
ANSWER : ok… no problem go somewhere else, i don’t care.
and then they come back and say
I GOT RIPPED OFF , PLEASE HELP
it’s the circle of life mate, at least in forex it is
or, you’ll lose $300 and say IT WASN’T THAT MUCH ANYWAY
but, YOU STILL GOT RIPPED OFF, didn’t you ?
we each do what is best for us, that’s the bottom line.
be cool mate
No problem mate
do what you feel is comfortable for you.
i’m just trying to help by offering some hard truths that people don’t like admitting to , but that i believe are necessary so that you understand what you are up against and who are these people that you are seeking that you choose to call “MENTORS”
of course i wish you well. i really do
do what you feel is comfortable for you
but don’t forget what i said… ok
Well what I have run across over the years is how much understanding I gained my self from other traders when I was a novice. I spearheaded the Forex Industry and never looked back. I coveted strategy after strategy but underneath I always based it on my level of comfort zone that I was able to understand and position myself to feel about trading.
Always never lost that and get off track once you get an idea of what you can handle with your trading. It can be irritating to learn the hard way that you don’t have as much time on the 1 minute chart as you do on the 15 minute chart. But many novice traders can’t make that jump without some loop holes to jump. It will eventually happen, and the more you understand that your loses are your experience that no one else can give you. So it is better to have someone give you all the heads up on insider market conditions and trade set-ups, but you will never respect or appreciate unless
it is so simple and has a very high ROI based on consistent results.
Without consistency you are square. So don’t shun help or feel that you are doing it for nothing if you are let down on the road to your own personal grail strategy. But do understand that your experience and scope does need to widen and find foundations. 200 MA’s how to identify channel price action, breakouts and learn Gann if you can. So know that you are going to pay for your education one way or the other. Take care !
In fact the latest person who has requested my help is doing so at a discounted rate…
Anyways…
We were gonna Short this EURO USD 4H Setup this morning down to the 1.2295 area. The idea is that this Pair is forming a Consolidation Setup in the form of a Pennant or a Range
and so it was expected to move lower to where it would form either a Horizontal (Range) or inclined (Pennant) Support Boundary. (I always assume it will be an Inclined Boundary to be sure we avoid reversals). However, I warned that this Bearish Signal was too weak and risky to trade.
I am now short in gold, which didn’t form a higher high and strongly correlates, so I consider it a better setup. EURUSD will probably stay sideways for a pair of weeks. I would wait for a strong D1 rejection candle to enter long on it, and stay out until that.
Ok well normally I would do that too…wait for a breakout if I understood you correctly.but Ive found a lot of value in these sideways patterns as long as can distinguish between weak and strong signals.
As you can see, both the 30 Minute and 1 Hour gave strong bearish signals breaking consolidation. But because the 4 H Signal was weak, the strongest of signals on the lowertime frames can turn into False Signals…as you csn see from the reversals back inside of the Consolidations…
This is why I constantly advise against lower chart trading because of the larger number of False Signlas they give especially if they are out of sync with the Daily and 4 H. But even when trading on the larger charts, have to know the difference between Risky and Profitable Signals.
