New Problem Found with a common Micro Broker

Beginner Questions
45

I have mentors who have mentors who are trading at levels I aspire to. I am not aware of your personal level of trading, nor do I wish to.

If you honestly believe that a micro account would possibly be my only means of income, or even my only means by which to make a trade, maybe you need to get yourself in check.

I have 6 years of trading information within earshot of me at all times my trading stations are on. I belong to a network of much more experienced traders than myself and, for information’s sake I have done what I have done.

Not that it is any business of yours, but my trading methods are measured by much more worthy traders than myself. I do not use emotion to trade. If I did, I would deserve what I got. Emotion has nothing to do with trading, atleast not for me.

When defending a position with your broker, one should definitely be emotional. If a broker is going to honor a trade, they should honor the whole aspect of the trade or remove the trade taking you back to where you were before the trade took place. It is not as though I was expecting the latter, only that they not clean out my account… perhaps you don’t completely understand my position and I accept that… “take the blinders off Mr. Ed”.

Good pippin,

Chubs

46

Well, it is true and significant that a part of Forex is brokers. However, it possibly would be the last thing of my several years journey, because right now I have tremendous amount of “homework.” :smiley: Good luck.

47

Invest more in time than money. :wink: Otherwise you realized you’ll be very tired. :eek:

48

They may not have a morality but they can trade at what ever value they want to or say thats there spread. Its only when they dont honor your orders do they have to answer up.

49

I will not “choose sides” here, as I’m a peaceful person and not qualified to do it anyway.

I would like to, however, pick up on something that Jocelyn wrote earlier: you MUST read the terms and conditions carefully, as they completely regulate what your broker may or may not do. Only after doing that and finding that you are correct in complaining, should you proceed.

Complaining about the fact that your broker apparently doesn’t offer live support seems a bit odd to me - shouldn’t you have known this at the time you opened an account with them?

Not having studied this matter closely, I do have to say that it was a very strange behavior with a spike from 1.3000 to 1.0000… This, to me, is the interesting and troublesome part here, although I don’t use the broker myself.

Please do not take my post as flaming, it is certainly not meant as that.

Best of luck

50

I do understand the need to “read a contract before signing”. If I have treated someone poorly for asking them to do the job they are being paid to do and they are unable to perform that task, it is not their fault or mine.

For whatever reason, the micro division of FXCM does not offer live support. If the individual who received my lashings as a representative of a separate division of the same brokerage, now we are talking apples and oranges. If there is no one else to speak to to point out the situation and “call foul”, and I am taken out of my account for a total of 8 trading sessions on this account based on a “glitch”, excuse me for being a little sideways about the situation.

If you feel she is owed something in the way of lip service, you give it to her.

I didn’t show the first half of the conversation because we were disconnected and you are not amongst the “need to know” few.

Again, thanks for your contribution and for sharing your opinion, (circular file), and please feel welcome to add to said file any time you so desire. I would much rather get on with trading and stop being pointed at, as you seem to be so good at.

Rational thought is brought on by rational behavior. Irrational circumstance creates irrational thought. At that point, the following behavior is… hmmm

back to my trading station.

Good Pippin,

Chubs

51

It seems you took my post the wrong way.

Feel free to place whatever you want into the circular file:)

It was not my intention to offend you, if I did I apologize.

Good trading

52

My apologies, you seem to have quoted someone else in a previous post and I was responding to that person. I do value your opinion.

What I don’t value is being judged by the “I know more than you and can’t possibly learn anything from a newbie” types who seem to have piles of money stashed away as reward for their soapbox rants. They seem to be coming out of the woodwork these days.

My intention, while learning and growing myself, is to share my experiences with other traders, my peers, and those even newer than I to improve myself, my trading, and perhaps the trading of others. I don’t expect everyone to understand my methods or agree with them. We are, after all, in a public forum and my intent here is purposeful.

The point of this particular thread was to verify that 1) if a broker accepts a trade, they should honor all parts of that trade, 2) it may not be popular opinion, but when it comes to a situation between you and your broker, you should be extremely bias, and 3) knowing where the market will open on Sunday may be worth a couple bucks on a lesser account.

I conceded your point concerning contracts as I do read contracts. I too apologize, as it would appear you received a message intended for someone else. It has been an interesting road this far, and I don’t wish to step on any more toes, especially of a neutral party.

Good pippin,

Chubs

53

c�mon, think about it realistically - executing trades ahead of a weekend on a mini/micro market-maker retail platform, with $700 invested isn�t really playing to your strength & their weakness is it.

the whole hub of this business revolves around the risk to value ratio. Whichever way you choose to look at it, you relinquished total control of that specific trade over to your broker. He then had control of that situation, not you.

all kinds of hell could erupt in the markets over a weekend, & you�re stuck there like a rabbit caught in the headlights. If you catch the wrong end of a market-moving event into Sunday night/Monday morning, you�re totally f**ked.

if prices gap on the opening prints & there�s no order stack to fill your stop, then your broker will execute all order book stops at the next nearest available price.

that price might be 100 pips wide of your stop. If it is, tough, you�ll be taken out at that level.

your reaction after the event told us everything we needed to know about your back up planning & emotional state. And you reckon you�re trying to help other traders?

help them with what exactly?

you do seriously need to research & explore very carefully how the order book works in your chosen market. Your brokers supply chain (wholesalers) control what happens every step of the way, 24 hours a day.

if they won�t offer your broker a �deal price� or a �trade thru� at a specific level, then you in turn won�t get filled, regardless of whether you�ve got an order waiting.

if they (your broker) choose to honor any order you have waiting, that is simply down to their discretion & convenience. Most of the time they�ll play a fair hand & give you your price just to keep the peace. But they don�t have to, neither are they legally obligated to.

when you�re operating via these types of brokerage outlets you need to place the odds as firmly in your favor every single time you execute.

do you really think you achieved that aim last weekend?

because you�re going to have very new & totally inexperienced entrants into this game reading & observing this stuff, & is that the kind of trade planning, preparation, execution & post-trade example you really wish to impart?

54

  1. What you think a (retail) broker should do & what they’re actually legally obligated to do in all situations, are 2 very different things as you will undoubtedly find out over time!!

  2. When it comes to a stand-off between you & your broker it would be in your best interests to treat them firmly yet fairly & definitely with a modicum of respect. There might be an occasion in the future where you will require their assistance to leg you out of a very fraught situation.

They have very keen & long memories :slight_smile:

  1. It may also needlessly cost you an awful lot of money.

If however, you’re adequately capitalized & have decent hedging facilities in place, then running orders over a weekend to ramp profits is totally acceptable.

The way you engineered your trade appeared as though it stressed you out & certainly raised issues with your planning capabilities, both pre & post event.

55

WHEREAS peeps can go on forever on this subject, the LESSON behind this is to be extremely CAREFUL with FXCM’s micro account !

I warn EVERYONE about what brokers are doing BEFORE the sunday open, but I have NEVER heard of this activity being so blatantly carried out, be it in their “method of operation” or not !
[B]
ITS REALLY NO WAY TO RUN A BUSINESS that sells itself on how good they are to traders ![/B]

separate yourselves from the emotions and the “reasons” for this and that and look at what happened and then consider “ethics”, which is something the financial world simply REFUSES to acknowledge — and next to outright stealing, this is pretty danged UN-ethical on ANY level !

no one reading the “rules” can imagine THIS type of behavior including myself ---- giving themselves HOURS before the market opens to alter the price in any way they wish is VERY ABNORMAL BEHAVIOR.

brokers usually open an hour before they connect you to their servers, which allows them to REVERSE what was going on at fridays close, which allows them to GAIN BACK their money, but since you are NOT connected, you dont lose on that manuever, but rather you open the day DOWN a whole bunch, which causes most to SELL in panic — this is exactly what the broker wants, and allows them to cover their short side with YOUR shares, now sold CHEAPLY !

THAT is the normal procedure, and invariably if you dont succumb to the panic, you find the price will tick right back UP and close your position, although those without enough experience do sweat a lot !

what happened here is essentially unconcionable and is a [B]VERY IMPORTANT WARNING AS TO WHAT FXCM IS LIKE WITH THEIR MICRO ACCOUNT ![/B]

lets take the personalities and “he said/she said” out of the equation and LOOK at what was done ---- in no way will i EVER give this companies mini account with its horrible varying spreads and strange behaviors, any kind of yes vote for newbs !

enjoy and trade well

mp

56

what actually do you expect from these characters mp6140?

you�re climbing into bed with a middle-man operation whether you trade via FXCM, CMS, IBFX, or any other retail shop.

they & they alone control how & when you operate � period!

they dictate liquidity, pricing & it�s structural nuances, execution parameters, stop & order based activity, blah blah blah. Every click of your mouse on their platform is controlled by them.

your money never reaches the live (Interbank hub) market.

they receive their prices from their wholesale suppliers & then mark-up their costings (spreads) & pass them down for you to deal on.

what you need to do in order to shift the odds a little more in your favor is to work to your strengths & play off their weaknesses.

you�ve got absolutely no choice but to use them unless you can have the financial capacity to negotiate a favorable deal/arrangement direct with a wholesale desk operation and/or an ECN shop.

the alternative is to switch camps & trade the Currency Futures out of the CME, but then you got to deal with a whole different set of unique liquidity issues, financing & execution size parameters.

surely you’re not naive enough to assume that these retail shops are in business for customers exclusive benefit & convenience do you??

you pays your money & you takes your choice - deal with it :slight_smile:

57

whoa up jimmymac,

you miss what i say — what is done is known, BUT ive never seen this activity even with SWISS bankers, and they are the WORST crooks in the business, next to some muslim brokers !

what i pointed out was HOW CROOKED they are, which is beyond anything i have ever seen.

NOW — mbtrading, a very decent ECN, has VERY low equity requirements and while they may fool a touch with spreads, its within “normal” bounds of decency and i have NEVER heard a complaint about them — only problem with them is hedging on the same currency, but just cause i love to do that doesnt mean everyone else does.

[B]all i point out is that FXCM goes WAY BEYOND any activity I have ever seen on the part of any broker, liquidity provider, ECN or Interbank, at least in their small accounts !

mp
[/B]

58

aah, sure � apologies, I misread what you said.

any new guys reading the thread, this is all very basic stuff which you really ought to cover.

conducting the necessary due diligence (including research on basic trading nuances etc) before entering into a business relationship with a broker is the first item on the tick list.

that will offer you a heads up to the types of potential conflicts that you�ll require to be familiar with to properly construct your strategy development.

you got to know where your strengths are & more importantly, where your brokers (competitors) strengths & weaknesses are at. That�s common sense business practice, whatever industry you�re involved with.

you�re not going to be in a positive position to develop, expand & grow your capital base if you don�t got those important items nailed down. You may as well simply roll a dice & hope for the best.

as long as you operate a sensible strategy, adhering to safe risk management structures & take note of market opening/closing times, as well as appropriate times of the day when liquidity/volumes are at acceptable levels, you�ll be basing your templates on a sound foundation.

59

yeah jimmymack,

one of the first things i should remember when dating a new broker is “do you screw your microlot customers ?”

“if you screw them, just how bad is it normally ?”

“if you screw them, do you stop when they start screaming, or do you believe in rape ?”

i agree — one should get to know their brokers well BEFORE marrying them, but mere mortals who may be newbs and dont have the guestions are probably best notified by this sort of thread, then sitting down with a bunch of contract lawyers and going over EACH AND EVERY POINT !

sorta silly when opening a few hundred dollar account !

when one “assumes”, there can always be problems but on the other side of the coin, [B]DO YOU NOT SEE JUST HOW CROOKED THIS ACTIVITY IS ?
[/B]
i have 5 or more positions OPEN over weekends and NEVER have seen this activity in all the years ive been trading, so instead of the great side of you pointing out what all newbs should learn, take a look at the broker itself and display some irritation over what was done to another trader !

i think youre looking for something far beyond what this thread started out to illustrate, and getting BACK to WHAT the broker did is the important part here !

mp

60

I would like to take the time to thank each and every one of you individually, but I am hoping a blanket “thanks for your contribution” will suffice. Yes, even those who have had a negative chime are appreciated. Without you, there would be no reason for this thread at all.

To those of you who have been bent over the desk, so to speak, by FXCMMicro in the past, well, is a free $25 micro account a learning experience? It can be as long as you don’t throw money at a losing battle. FXCMMicro, for whatever reason, is not in the business of letting you win.

Yes, I understand how foolish one might view my actions in opening this trade and leaving it open over the weekend.
Yes, I understand that this broker has less than my best interests in mind.
Yes, I understand that, when being robbed, I may respond a bit irrationally.
And lastly, yes, the information received by this trade turned out to be profitable on another trade with a different broker.

To any who may have been offended by any part of my own words or words by other traders, my sincerest “get over it” goes out to you as you are not those to whom this thread was intended to benefit.

To all Newbies considering opening a live micro account, think twice. Don’t just pick a micro broker because they are offering “free” live trade accounts. I assure you, they intend to get their money back any way they can. If they have variable spreads, heads up… turn and run as other brokers use fixed spreads and are more reliable when dealing with new and perspective clients.

Finally, to those who support their fellow traders, Thanks for the support in pointing out this obviously unscrupulous brokerage for what they really are, a bait and hook organization that has none but their own best interests in mind and would seemingly sell their own mothers to make a buck.

Live Happy, Love Long, and good pippin,

Chubs

61

I learned somethin’… like I usually do… This is one of em.

Thanks Chubs!

62

I for one have learned from your bad experience and will be looking elsewhere.

Thanks for taking one for the guys. You are a TEAM player!!!

My friends, no matter how rough the road may be, we can and we will, never, never surrender to what is right.
Dan Quayle

63

Hi JimmyMac,
Your statement about knowing where your brokers strength & weaknesses are caught my eye!

What advise may I ask can you give with respect to that?

I have a mini account with FXCM so wondering if they might treat those accounts any different than micros, which for some reason don’t comply with our BC Securities Commission so I couldn’t have signed up for one anyway which seems like maybe I should be thankful for…lol.

Thanks :slight_smile:

64

hello sweetpip,

if you�re trading [I]�retail�[/I], which of course many members on this (& other forums) are, then it�s a matter of understanding the mechanics of what you�re actually involving yourself with.

as long as you realize they�re [B]“the house”[/B] & they control your movement from trade initiation to trade closure, then you can at least begin to plan your strategy around that functionality.

most of it is common sense.

for instance:
[I][B]not trading (or bracketing orders) either side of major economic data�…

not executing trades late into New York traffic on a Friday�.or early into Tokyo traffic on Sunday/Monday until the flows have settled down after backlog orders have been cleared & processed.

not setting unrealistically tight stop-losses on or around key swing zones close to big figures (00�s or 50�s)

attempting to latency trade (multi scalping regimes)

attempting to execute market orders on ill-liquid pairs outside normal (London) business hours & wondering why they re-quote you or simply refuse your order altogether[/B][/I]

these primary instances all play into their hands.

we have institutional clients who use some of their spare cash/private investment capital to trade their own accounts from home. All of them utilize retail brokers, either Stateside or UK spread-betting firms, some of them going back 15 years or more.

not one has ever experienced any type of major conflict or stressful occurance involving trade execution.

if you treat your account, your strategy deployment & your brokerage house with the respect it/they deserves, you�ll have no problems whatsoever.

it�s those who have no idea what they�re doing, no definitive plans, conduct absolutely no research on their brokerage supplier or market environment who usually come unstuck.

it really isn�t rocket science. Most of it comes down to pure common sense & respect for the tasks you�re undertaking.

i will also concede, the seeds & foundations laid down at the beginning of one�s initial preparation, realistic (financial) expectations & ongoing experiences etc have a whole lot to do with how you were introduced to this environment & what type of instruction/advice you received from the get go.