Probably a very difficult question

Hi,

I am trading in the EUR/USD pair mainly. Most of my trades are based on a fundamental point. Whenever US data is released the EUR/USD acts differently. The one time it is a negative number the EUR/USD is bullish but the other time it is bearish. How is this possible?

I know a bad/good number causes a bearish/bullish reaction within the pair because of the risk-off/risk-on idea but yesterday (thursday 15 nov.) the Philadelphia Fed Manufacturing Index caused the EUR/USD to thrive. If someone could tell me more about this and how to recognize these movements I would be very greatful! Thanks in advance!!!

Cheers,

Laurens

The observations you have made are the very reasons I completely ignore any and all news. When there is a news release a mass of traders jump into the market. Good numbers – everyone jumps in and goes long. Bad numbers – everyone jumps in and goes short. They congratulate themselves on getting into a major shift in the value of a currency at the very beginning of the new, long term move. Then reality slaps them in the face.

Large financial institutions simply take advantge of the volume and liquidity to accumulate or distribute huge positions during news releases, and THEY are the ones that drive the market. A handful of banks control the lion’s share of the market. They already know which way they are driving the market before the news release so whether the release is good or bad is irrelevant. If they have large positions they can dump profitably, they do. If they can amass large positions counter to the news, they will. News releases are effective camoflage for the intent of these institutions. Is it easier to hide accumalting/distributing tens of billions during the low volume off hours or during the high volume news releases?

Analysts will then report “better than expected” even if the numbers sucked eggs if there is a positive move. If there is a positve report with a negative move they will say “not as good as expected.” EVERY TIME. Ignore the news, especially the minor, meaningless reports such as a Philly Fed Manufacturing Index. Rate changes have an actual impact. That is about it.

All other news releases are simply opportune times for banks to move one way or the other – and they know which way they are moving before hand.

Thank you for your reply. That’s a very bold statement you make there and I absolutely understand your point of view. Most of the times I still make my decisions based on a fundamental point. Like for example if there was a sling of negative or poaitive data in a country or currency area. Would you think a bigger ammount of data would indeed have an impact on the currency?
If I may ask, what’s your prefered trading method?

I rely on technical analysis for trading. Primarily, price action, volume, currency correlation and index divergences.

When it comes to trading fundamentals (I use company/industry/sector fundies for swing trading/position trading stocks) in forex, I have never been able to see any consistent cause/effect between positive/negative reports and price movements. If there is a positive report, sometimes the market goes up, sometimes it doesn’t. There is no consistent market reaction, no matter what the latest fundies say (other than rate changes, which have a long term affect on a currency’s value relative to other currencies).

When you consider that only a small number of banks control the vast majority of the market, I no longer try to figure out where the market SHOULD go based on fundamentals. Where it SHOULD go and where it ACTUALLY goes are too often in opposite directions. Now, I just try to decipher where the biggest players are driving the market through a few tell tale signs they leave behind and jump in with them.

I basically agree with the comment above. Use the tools (or whatever) section in BP to determine when there will be high impact announcements. This is when there is usually the most liquidity. I ignore the nature (good vs bad) because it is not reliable. I focus on technical analysis to interpret price action. The Inner Circle Trader teaches this for free, and has numerous videos on YouTube and great threads. Look up Nikitafx’s price action thread which is also very good. Btw, ICT also teaches about using COT, interest / yields, and correlated markets, which is easier than interpreting news. Best of luck.

I used to trade solely the news releases as well such as Non-Farm, Retail Sales, GDP, etc. However, I have found out it is very difficult to follow (although, sometimes I win but more I lose) if I only relying on trading just the news releases.

I now stop trading the news alone. However, I can still combine some of news releases only if it is favor towards my technical analysis such as candlesticks formation, Fibonacci, S & R, etc. I have more edge of winning by combining them.

Good-luck!

Look… “Fundamentals” boil down to capital flow. Capital flow can be broken into yield seeking investors and cross border business transaction (such as mergers and acquisitions).

The trophy fundamental in the forex world is interest rates. All other economic releases are used to decipher what the interest rate policy will be of the country’s central bank (and in recent years stimulus policy). Higher interest rates attract the yield seeking investor and therefore the currency will appreciate with an interest rate increase.

Bad employment numbers out of Australia WILL negatively impact the Aussie dollar, not because its a negative number and it has any significance in an of itself, but because the central bank uses the numbers in its interest rate decision. Less jobs means monetary policy can loosen up which is bad for the home currency value. Speculators will use the jobs report as a leading indicator for the monetary policy.

Macro economic circumstances vary by country and from a month to month basis, depending on the circumstances inflation may be the central banks main concern and therefore PPI and CPI reports will be more significant. Sometimes jobs are more significant. Sometimes neither are significant because the market players are aware that the central bank is completely happy for the time period with its current monetary policy.

Take all other economic indicators and just try to think of it within the context of interest rates. If the central bank is showing willingness to change its monetary policies, the market will begin homing in on the key news releases, and the key is to interpret whether the data released would incline the central bank to change its policy.

If the central bank is firmly on hold, then market data means significantly less, and you’ll get whipsawed around. The data will still move the market, it’s just by a few pips instead of tens of pips, and the market will quickly find something else to drive it, giving the impression that the price is moving in an opposite direction as it should. In reality, the data was insignificant per the current market environment and something that was more relavent overruled its reaction.

Get into the habit of reading central bank rate statements at every release… They give you a glimpse into their decision process and highlights what their concerns are. If they mention inflation as a concern, then keep an eye on the next inflation report for that country… If they mention job growth, then pay attention to the next job release. If its a short statement that says something like “current monetary policy is deemed appropriate for the economy” then nothing but a surprise release way outside expectations will move the market definitively as interest rates won’t be moving anytime soon.

As for the Philly fed index… We are not really in a market situation where that type of data is under scrutiny… In August and September however, when the market was trying to decide if QE3 was on the table, this data was much more significant, because it was used as a leading indicator towards monetary policy decisions.

Thank you for you reply. It’s a piece of advice I’ll definitely take into consideration. Whenever I read things like these I realize that I still have a lot to learn.

What’s your view on trading based on news that basically fortifies the trend of a single currency?

It depends on how much surprise factor there is in the release. The market prices in expected data BEFORE it is released. So if price has been trending before a major release, and then the data is released and it is confluent with the trend direction, the market may have already priced in the data and its affects will be limited.

Further trend continuation would be expected if the data was way better then then the general expected consensus, this expected consensus is posted on most news calendars and can be used as a benchmark for that data release.

The optimal setups for trading news and fundamentals is when the price is trending one way, and you get a surprise contrary release from a marquee level news release. The reaction is fast and quite large usually as the market has to re adjust quickly.

It all takes time, but learning to trade off fundamentals is the one thing you can do that will take you a step above the masses of “wanna be” traders with their useless indicators. :slight_smile:

The downside to this real trading is you need to be absorbed with news… You need to be up to date on Geo political, country specific, and macro economical issues daily in order to have the context needed to frame any economic data releases and how to trade them.

Fundamental analysis does not seem to hold well in currency trading. Strategy by technical analysis is more suitable for trading currency over the short term investment horizon.