[QUOTE=“emeraldorc;662224”] Either you are just naive or stupid… Did I not say a survival budget is needed independent of trading capital? If you want to be a trader be one, you have to build your small account. Trading capital should not be what gives you teh confidence to trade. You will loose whatever amount if you can’t trade 2k, 10k, etc. 20% of a 2k account is the same as 20% on 10k account, you still need a extra money to cover living costs till your business grows.
Easy to tell those who are not traders rather forum lovers. Good luck mate! That’s why you will never be a trader. Glad you are entertaining on babypips. Hope you have a good job because you won’t be leaving anytime soon…[/QUOTE]
Lol. 20% of $2k is $200 while 20% of $10k is $2,000. I don’t know how your mortgage company rolls, but most don’t think $200 is the same as $2,000, good luck trying to make that argument to yours though.
In order to make a middle class income off trading a $2k account full time, you need to turn a 200% account gain every month. If you have a $50k account you only need to make 10% a month. You tell me which is more realistic.
Wow! He still doesn’t get it. EXAMPLE!!! Anyway I gave you a like, hopefully you feel better. You are a joker, I like funny guys… Anyway relax buddy. This is going off point.
To all others thanks for your opinion. Including sensible critics.
[QUOTE=“emeraldorc;662229”] Wow! He still doesn’t get it. EXAMPLE!!! Anyway I gave you a like, hopefully you feel better. You are a joker, I like funny guys… Anyway relax buddy. This is going off point.
To all others thanks for your opinion. Including sensible critics.[/QUOTE]
Off point? It’s actually a pretty critical point of your thesis post.
If you want to continue arguing that an account of $2k is enough to quit your day job and to start trading forex full time then by all means, continue lol.
For the rest of the people who stumbled across this thread, babypips school of pipsology pegs the number of a well capitalized account to be around $50k, which I would agree with.
The account size is simply an equation of what you think a manageable, and sustainable monthly profit will be, and what your desired annual income is. To make $60k a year, and assuming 10% a month is reasonable (keep in mind this is well and beyond the average returns of top fund managers who are experts in the field), then you need a $50k account size.
Interesting points emerald but as a few others here already said, 2-5000$ as initial capital is not enough if someone want’s to trade full time for a living…
After a full year of learning, demo-ing, burning live cash, I can tell you that I can achieve a 2% - 5% monthly consistency…trading low leverage
With a 2000$ account that is between 40 and 100$ per month of profit…you can see that it’s not enough for a living…even a 10k account would not cover that… A 100 000$ account would give me enough monthly profit to live off.
Reading about future and option trading I find that it is recommended to go with at least a 20 000 - 30 000$ account…and that’s the recommended minimum…50 000$ to 100 000$ is much better.
All in all, I would say that for an excellent consistency with low amount of risk and leverage you need (and this is optimum amount by my standards) a 100 000$ account for Forex trading and a 100 000$ account for Futures, Options or Equity trading…
I wouldn’t quit my day job or any job without securing those 100k first…
[B]You can avoid reality ,but you cannot avoid the consequenses of avoiding reality-Ayn Rand[/B]
To info i steel it from a pro trader who was living from his 50 K account he double his account x times every year … I seen his statement . Trading style understand order flow
But you have complete wrong in you understanding of the market,
[B]So continue to dream, I guess the british sosial security paying for you trading adventure …[/B]
Wow, you guys aren’t getting what he is sayying as long as you have money set aside from your trading, capital aka money to live of off or savings 2-5k is more than enough to trade full time the idea is to grow that 2k in 2 -3 months time to 4-5k okay then you can start taking some money out every month like $200 a month as well as continue to grow your trading capital until it’s a reasonable amount, or until your comfortable
If you guys can’t double 1k or even $100 in one month or 2 months then chaces are you need more practice, and what’s the point of going live…
[QUOTE=“Libertysilver;662249”]
If you guys can’t double 1k or even $100 in one month or 2 months then chaces are you need more practice, and what’s the point of going live…[/QUOTE]
If you can double your money every month then surely account balance is irrelevant as anyone who can do so consistently will be a billionaire in two years off a $1000 loan.
Three months of money set aside for living expenses (what emerald recommended) would not provide enough time to realistically grow a 2k account to anywhere close to what is needed to trade full time with. Once the 3 months of savings is gone, then you have to begin withdrawing living expenses from the account, and any losses are going to potentially bankrupt you.
I would argue that living off of savings isn’t what most people are thinking of when they think of “trading full time” anyways.
Are you serious? Doubling any type of amount requires:
a) Insane amounts of leverage and drawdown
b) Having a 95%+ strategy
Oh and btw. to live of from trading like this you would need to be a day trader by definition…because waiting for that 1-3 setups monthly would get you no where
Does anybody taking into account that you have to pay taxes on those ( capital gain or whatever it is) plus your health insurance, etc?
I agree… You cannot quit your day job and trade full time if you only have 2-5k capital, if it is then I should have quit my job right now. Atleast 50k but I would preferred 100k capital plus 6 to 8 months living expenses and no debt what so ever… Only the regular bills…
Look if trading is so hard to make Conssitant profit why would you tie more of your money up doesn’t make sense… Look either you know how to trade or not simple as that, it’s the same ratio as $100-$1000-$10000-$100k-$1mill it’s the same ratio if you can t make Conssitant profit from any amount what makes you think magically more money is going to make you better… Hey let’s just go to the casino with 10k instead of 500 right more money more odds to win… Complete rubbish. It’s not hard to make Conssitant profit and if you can’t forex is not for you more or less any trading, 70% people on this fourm make it seem like trading is the hardest thing to accomplish, if it’s soo hard why waste so many years and time and money… It’s just plain common sense.
If it’s so hard why not spend all that time trying to be famous you would have much better luck,…
Or maybe try getting hit by lightening twice… imo trading is mainly emotions there’s a reason behind the fact the the majority of people lose…
And it’s funny how . people limit themselves, this is why only so many people make it in life, and actually achieve there goals
[QUOTE=“Libertysilver;662282”]If it’s so hard why not spend all that time trying to be famous you would have much better luck,…
Or maybe try getting hit by lightening twice… imo trading is mainly emotions there’s a reason behind the fact the the majority of people lose…
And it’s funny how . people limit themselves, this is why only so many people make it in life, and actually achieve there goals[/QUOTE]
If its so easy then there should be an abundance of investment funds with annual triple digit percentage returns year after year after year. This simply is not the case and the performance of investment funds with audited and transparent performance history is evidence enough of the difficulty of achieving the type of growth that you are saying is “easy”, in a consistent and risk reasonable manner.
It’s critical to not confuse stringing a few high profit months together taking 20% risk trades, with proper risk managed trading. Trading like a wild man can produce eye popping results, but will inevitably burn the account to the ground. The latter is the only path once trading income is the sole source of income.
I have to agree with a few of the gentlemen here. Once you transition out of strategy development into live trading, it doesn’t matter whether you start with $500 or $5000. I can start two accounts with these amounts and reach a million in both within the same year. Stop with the nonsense and do the math. No offense GlobalMacro but you are missing something and instead of resisting, why don’t you seek that realization.
Heres a glimpse…
Lets say I have a $5000 account. I plan on starting live trading with 6% of that, which is $300. At first I will be risking %17, of $300, per trade, thats $51. Thats only 1% of the $5000 actual balance. You can realistically turn that $300 into $15,000 in less than 6 months this way. By then you will have exceeded passed the initial $5000 balance but since you are managing your lot size as your balance increases, the risk per trade can be around 3% as early as 3 months into live trading. So whats the point of having the $5000? Well, its a nice cushion that increases the chance of a successful early streak with a reasonable expected 15% losing trades within the first 3 months. Thats how you transition into live trading. If you have any questions about this, first give it some thought, crunch some numbers, determine whether this is possible with your current methodology, and then by all means we’re all ears.
[QUOTE=“atrwilder;662298”]I have to agree with a few of the gentlemen here. Once you transition out of strategy development into live trading, [B]it doesn’t matter whether you start with $500 or $5000. I can start two accounts with these amounts and reach a million in both within the same year. [/B] Stop with the nonsense and do the math. No offense GlobalMacro but you are missing something and instead of resisting, why don’t you seek that realization.
[/QUOTE]
Hahahahaha. Quite the pointless statement.
The quality of the discussion is going down hill from here and into la la land, so I’m out.
I can’t believe this, its like dealing with children. I can reach a million in both within the same year, not in one year. Let me slow it down for you…(necessary pause for certain neural networks) If it takes me 3 years to reach a million with 500 bucks it will take me, around the same time no more than 4 years to reach it with 5000 bucks. Comprendes? Oh tengo que explicartelo en mi idioma nativo?
To the few that have what it takes to make it in this business, you know who you are, I invite you to an adult conversation. You shouldn’t have to deal with this mockery. Lets put our minds together and improve our vision, you know how to reach me…
The thread was written with the best of intentions. As gp00 points out it was an opinion that I initially highlighting at the start. In any case I stick by my views because I believe people should not waste money or time in the markets.
I think it was HM Gartley who says the average man should avoid the markets. This is a lesson not heeded these days. Good luck to you all this will be my last forum wide contribution happy to continue sharing with like minded folks. Just felt like I was being a bit selfish my just sharing with experienced folk. Lesson learned I wish you more 0.5% year on year profitability. End of thread…
Look, no one’s saying anything about ratios, but do you understand this simple mathematical equitation? Here: Earning constantly 5% with low risk per month. Now tell me on your 1000$ acc, how much is that in $$ at the end of the month?
Excuse me Mr. Livermore, long time no see, how’s on the other side, eh?
Hahahahahahaha, man you just made me fall of my chair and roll around the floor in laughter
Turning 300$ into 15,000$ in 6 months, are you high on ACID??? Low, risk man, low risk…you can’t do that with low risk…look I managed to turn a 100$ acc, into 400$ in two months. Do you know what was my risk? 100% each and every time I traded… Please don’t write things like this, because it sounds like you’re under 18 (no offense really)…unless you have a buddy over at Goldman, Barclays or Deutsche Bank this is not serous conversation, cmon…
@ milliardo … I would love to show you my account. 1k 2 months you should be able to have a balance of at least double if not triple. If you can’t do that if it takes you a year to double 1k honestly… Go play poker or go to the casino … Your odds are much better ,
lol
