Stop loss or No Stop loss?

Yeah, what I liked about his approach is his sense of momentum, no hint of trying to find reversal candle stick patterns or the notion of price ‘rejection’ etc etc.

Yes, hoping everyone takes a quick peak at your $3.36 FxBook account. :17:

Leg0nd System | Myfxbook

I may be wrong here but obviously you are being sarcastic. Guess what? I don’t give a **** what your opinion is on my $3 account. The market payed me this past month and that is all that matters as a trader. Like previously stated my goals in FX are 100% different than yours. So before you judge by account size, why don’t you judge by profitability. The beauty of FX is through scalability. If I had 100k at the beginning of the month I would have 210k right now which is still pretty damn unheard of. 110k profit in one month is enough to live off of and not trade the remainder of the year. Now that is something to be proud of. 1 month of work for 11 months of financial support with absolutely no risk. Not unless you can top that, I will gladly shut the **** up.

I get enough hate from family, and friends alike on my particular trading style. I apologize in advance for the language, but when I try to help new traders out by giving them both sides of the argument with valid proof for my statements I can get rather heated… Especially when I am constantly poked at by supposed “pro” traders and having run low on my nicotine. To whomever started this thread, I hope my contributions have helped you better understand the pros and cons of stop losses. After all this thread was designed for that purpose, not to poke fun of my account, or trading style. I am trading live and not demo, which makes my contributions valid no matter how much is in my account. I take real risk, not play money risk. the market reacts to my trades just the same as it would if I had 1 million in my trade. When I trade my $3 into a million no one will be laughing except me. Litterally almost nothing to something huge is the American dream is it not?

My system is in the top 5 most watched as far as trading journal’s go. Maybe people are watching to see if I fail, maybe to watch to see if I succeed, maybe to get some ideas from, who knows? All that matters to me is to keep a journal so I can look back to see where I came from and where I am today. I don’t care about popularity. I never was the popular guy. But I will be damned If I am not in the top .5%, It’s either that or die trying. It’s this kinda motivation that rewards in Forex granted you have the right head on your shoulders, willingness to lose until you become profitable, and the desire to figure out what exactly causes the market to move so that you can be the first in line to make the right decision light years ahead of the shallow minded crowd following stereotypes.

Originality + Ingenious Practical Real World Ideology+ Constant Consistent Implementation = Success.

I remember reading somewhere that traders are in the business of risk management.

If you don’t define your stop loss, then how do you define your risk? If your risk is undefined and you don’t know when to get out, your risk is unmanaged and theoretically limitless.

This post should be plated with gold. :smiley:

[QUOTE=“peterma;616412”]Yeah, what I liked about his approach is his sense of momentum, no hint of trying to find reversal candle stick patterns or the notion of price ‘rejection’ etc etc.[/QUOTE].

he mentions somthing brefily about when the trades go against you To open another trade as a hedge kinda I’m not sure really he did not elaborate on it to much during the presentation ?

Had a quick look at his other video, yep, uses hedging instead of SL.

I suppose all depends on a trader’s initial reason for entry, if it is entirely TA then TA rules the trade, he encourages averaging down, but only if you have used 20% of your usual entry capital.

I can see why Leg0nd has linked to the video, but I also see why maybe he doesn’t actually follow the system.

The notion of momentum is very valid, systems such as ducks and some other animals (forget which) utilize this very thing, and when you get fundamentals to agree (such as cable this week) then the placement of SL becomes meaningless.

His system was solid nonetheless. The biggest issue I have with it was the amount of commitment it takes. You borderline need to be a full time trader to fully take advantage of this system, plus get the entries correct. I’m not lazy by any means. I spend an ungodly amount of time on my own system (well used to, now I got a lot smarter about my time management). I believe mathematics are the answer to higher accuracy and possibly the holy grail. No one seems to think about this… but what do you think all the indicators are based off of? Math of course!

80%+ accuracy is definitely solid. Not many systems out there can compare to that high of an accuracy rating. However, the system I have been building takes the least amount of time to identify the “setup,” enter the trade, and take the profits at the end of the day. All the hard hard work came with the development of the system itself of course. But at least I can work a full time job, hell even 3 if I wanted to and still trade “full time.” if that makes sense.

Of course! Mathematics is the first you need to know to create your own forecasts. I am using theory of Elliott’s Waves to set up SL and TP levels - math too.

Very nice, I have a wonderful book on Elliott Wave. I haven’t read into it that far yet, however, after talking to my uncle about the theories I had in the summer etc. (uncle used to be a day trader xD) he said I was stumbling across the same theories as Elliott Wave himself. Best part is I was doing all this on my own! Elliott was a very smart man, predicted several crashes If I recall correctly. Nowadays’ I’m more interested in what the money invested in the market actually means and the patterns within the money rather than anything price action related. However, I pretty much use price action to predict the market so to speak. The only difference is my price action theories are not visually based, they are back 100% by mathematics alone therefore I can put a value behind the price action, not just some engulfing candle bs lol.

I usually trade with stop loss. It’s my way to minimize the risk when trading with my account. I ever got MC because i do not set SL when trading and my psychology is not good.

It is important when you are not in front of your screen. The protraders cannot do without stop loss if they are going to open a long term position that requires them to leave their computer.

is being good in math is a trait to become a successful trader?

[QUOTE=“RateUp;617464”]is being good in math is a trait to become a successful trader?[/QUOTE]

I think so. I mean even reading “indicators” you have to know when to enter a setup typically based off an integer value. High math skills? Not necessarily, basic math skills a 2nd grader probably has, you bet xD.

There are not every successful traders are good in math, and there are not everyone who good in mathematics are successful traders, but if you’re good in math then it is easier to you to become profitable.

I am a newbie, only demo right now. But i agree about SL increasing your chance of being hunted and stopped out. Feel like i am waving a big red target at the big guns. Also, it seems a SL closes a trade when it would have went to TP if given a little more wriggle room.

There’s two types of stop-hunting - done by the market and done by your broker. If you trade intra-day, you cannot escape market stop-hunting. So is there any advantage in being able to avoid broker stop-hunting?

If you trade long-term, market stop-hunts are just an opportunity to trade against the trapped traders. So can you do this?
And also trade with a broker that is regulated against hunting clients’ personal stops?

Using a set distance SL is death by a thousand cuts… it whittles your account away before your very eyes. Price is deliberately run up and down to garnish as many stops as possible and generate the maximum revenue. The main issue is placing your stop in a zone where everyone else has theirs… Like you are generally educated to do…

Brokers are like a Fleet of Trawlers with nets… scouring the zones for the biggest haul of stops.

There are 4 other methods of protecting yourself against the “Bankster aided Brokers…”

• You can add to your strategy by using the CCI or RSI Indicator (and a few others) to either automatically or manually close your position when the Indicator crosses below a set value for a Buy position or above a set value for a Sell position. (ie: CCI +100/-100 or RSI 64, 70, 75 - 36, 30, 25 etc.) So you are effectively hiding your SL from bad broker behaviour.

This system works 75% - 85% of the time but can be destabilised by price action bouncing along just above or below a set level while the price either increases or decreases…

• You can use an equity protection EA that closes your position when it hits a set percentage of drawdown (ie: say set to 0.7% / 0.5%) of your account. This also allows your “Hidden SL” to increase or decrease automatically with the size of your account. These utilities can be found FREE for MT4/MT5 and cTrader.

• You can add a stealth EA that physically hides your SL from the Charting software and therefore from the Brokers and LP’s as well. These utilities can be found FREE for MT4/MT5 and cTrader.

• Hedging your position which is described in detail earlier in the thread.

I use all of the above trade closing utilities in the various EA’s I develop. Any time I backtest with a set stop the performance is always poor. With BP now being an “Industry” site… information like this won’t be flowing freely…

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It’s not true; maximum pro traders use SL positions in their trading! Trading is all about probabilities, there is no certainty!

Personally i dislike stop losses and a lot of the posts on this thread refer to “Stop Hunting”, which undoubtably occurs every day on all instruments. We all feel Robbed every few bets when we get our stops “Hunted” by a price which immediately turns around and goes beck to our TP…

Once I traded without when trying to get in on a very volatile downtrend (DOW 2003) and was 600 Pips down before I let it go !

However, it did eventually return to the 7700 mark and would have let me out ! - That was 6 years later in the great bankers screw up of 2009, But it had been over 14,000 in between and I don’t think I would have met the margin calls.

On balance I think we do have to use stops - but we DON’T have to put them “1 point below the last swing low” or whatver !

Nowadays, I wonder if the right thing to do is to NOT take the bet, but to wait for the stop hunting behaviour and to take the bet when the price gets to where your stop would have been !

An advantage of this way is that your stop can now be much tighter and the potential movement so much greater.

(It does take a lot of courage to “Pull the trigger” for a reversal, when everyone is talking about a “Breakout” ! )

Don’t you just mean buy the uptrend on the dips?