Trading journal

This raises a big issue that every trader has to deal with, even after many years of trading. What you are referring to is looking at the wrong end of the straw…

It is a sad fact that no matter how good your entry criteria is, or how disciplined you are in following your rules, or how many different types of indicators or criteria you apply, you can never know how far a particular move is going to go once it has started. Every move is different and its future duration is an unknown. The only information we have is the current price and the historical prices. We do not know the future prices or the future factors that will drive it further and in which direction.

So what can we do about it?

What we shouldn’t do, when faced with a fistful of straw ends and asked to pick one, is grab the whole bunch in the hope of picking the longest straw. We will surely also pick the shortest straws as well. This is like a trend trader acting on every entry signal in order to catch the big trends but getting whipsawed over and over again while waiting for it (big trends are not that common).

It is relatively easy to design trade entry signals and the world is full of strategies how to do so. But what is not so common, and a million times harder to define, is an optimal exit strategy. There are many techniques for exits including mathematical formulas like Fibs and reversal patterns like trailing stops and MA crossovers, etc. But the facts are that it is impossible to predict future distance, and reversals tend to be faster and more furious than the build up.

So, once again, what can we do about it?

Here, I think, is one of your brain gems. In my opinion, this is not only precisely correct, it is also the only way to optimise gains and minimise losses.

Bearing in mind that we only have historical price data to work with, then we need to make two assumption:
a) price movement is not entirely random, b) a new move will usually see some degree of follow-through as other traders start to recognise the move and enter or build positions.

Based on those two assumptions, we can look at recent price movements to form a judgement of the likelihood (probability) of the possible strength of the follow-through.

@darthdimsky points to one technique which is the ATR, other will use a momentum indicator to add confluence such as RSI. Others (myself included) will use multiple timeframes to form a judgement of whether we are living through a pullback in a main trend or a reversal into a new trend - or just ranging, going nowhere!

I won’t go into details about my own approach but basically I look at the same things on a daily, 4-hour and 1-hour charts. When the signals line up on all three then I anticipate a stronger/longer move. When there is a discrepancy then, depending on my rules, I will trade a fixed pip distance target which is based on the historically typical short term moves that the instrument makes.

As usual, I am writing a “book” about something that could be said in a few lines. But basically, entry criteria alone is not enough to decide trade potential. Afterall, if the price moves even 4 pips in the “right” direction, it is a “correct” signal - but was it worth it? So you need something else to determine the likelihood of a sufficient follow-through to meet your target expectations - as well as setting your target expectations according to the likely follow-through.

As @Mondeoman rightly says, we have covered an enormous amount of material here recently and I am going to step out for a while and give you some peace to turn your thoughts into actions and to see how your trading is improving. Looking forward to seeing some positive posts in October! :smiley:

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Just wanted to be clear. The listed indicators and timeframe factors of 2x-4x are arbitrary. The post was meant to outline a method to quantify a discretionary trading system. So someone using price action or the Ichimoku should have no difficulties adopting the same concept.

Useful if I want to modify my existing system or adopt a completely new one.

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I think your post was very clear and articulate. :smiley:

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I hope to post a margin increase at the end of October.

As for today, I’m taking some time to establish my rules, check my journal, and also modify my spreadsheet of active trades.

I must admit that I procrastinated for about an hour before starting my trading work. I knew what I had to work on: journal, rules, etc.

But, I got to it.

I had written down on some paper what my rules should be. I went to my checklist (which I haven’t used in a while) and everything I wrote down was already there. Oh boy.

I wrote a checklist for each type of trade. I’ll probably just have to take my time and go thru my whole process, which is meant to limit risk and help avoid taking bad trades.

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Thanks! I just didn’t want to create a whole bunch of threads. I don’t mean to turn this into a long read, but I just kinda wanted a place to think my thoughts thru.

Talking outloud, I guess. And it really really helps when people critique, because I’ll get new information and improve myself.

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This morning I didn’t open any new positions. My USD/CAD position got stopped out. I stayed in too long because I was trying to figure out what I was reading in the charts. I moved my SL to BE. No actual loss.

But that pair along with several others are starting to reverse. I missed my opportunity to get in early.

I missed it by just a few days.

I made some adjustments to my checklist to include what I should look for next time.

I saw some breakouts that looked tempting. But I told myself that I’m not trading those anymore.

Maybe I’m wrong for that…I’ll think about it.

My problem now will be waiting for the trends to breakout, trend, then jumping in on the pullback.

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That is a success. In your written trading plan, do you have a maximum time limit after which you will cut and run? It seems that you have a well developed system for trade ENTRY, but it is just as important, if not more important, to have a plan that states what you will do or will not do during the lifecycle of the trade. Entry is one hurdle to overcome. But once those trades are live, they all represent a continuing risk that should either be countered by a “fixed take profit” (I do not prefer), or a “timed review at intervals” where you decide to manually or automatically reset your stop loss, take half profits, move TP, etc, etc. In the past I had “interfered” far too frequently and could not determine how successful or otherwise these interferences had been. That is when I wrote more about lifecycle trade management. Now there are trades that I set an alarm to watch on a daily basis, or a twice weekly basis. Some of them have a preset TP for up to half the risk value, none of them have a fixed “take all” TP.

On the one hand, we seem to be discussing setting down some hard rules to stick by until we have enough trades to analyze, and on the other hand we seem to be saying that we can tinker with rules as we please.

That is where I think forex trading (or stock, or index, or crypto) is an art within a science. To determine whether or not to make a change mid stream (an Agile type of approach) or blindly stick to rules until the requisite number of trades have completed to make a valid analysis (10, 100, 1,000?) is, to my mind, the difference between an experienced trader and a newbie. It helps when you have placed over 1,000 trades because what may seem to be “intuition” is probably more like muscle memory. Stick at it. Great post.

Ok. This I’m getting better at. I’ve seen trades that I think, “well, price could bounce here, or it could keep going and bounce there.”

Those trades I used to take, but now I walk away from.

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I had a few losses, and I’m feeling frustrated.

On Sunday, I placed most of the orders that I wanted to. Even though some of them probably won’t even get triggered.

I was looking at a few charts this morning, and I didn’t really see anything I felt like trading at the moment. Nothing that was giving off entry signals.

I opened one trade because it was breaking out, and I think it was actually more of an impulsive trade.

That’s when I started thinking I need to step back and walk away. I was trading for the sake of trading.

Not good.

I have an appointment this morning, and on my way I was thinking about what’s wrong with my trading.

I pretended I was talking with a mentor and he asked me “what seems to be the problem with your trading?”

I was stuck. My answer was, “I don’t know.”

How can someone help me if I don’t know what my problem is?

I wanted to review my closed trades today.

But I have to look for patterns in the losses.

I thought I would have fixed my problems by now. Not saying to avoid losses, but there’s really no good reason why I shouldn’t be profiting.

My risk management is way better. But that’s only part of the puzzle, as stated in a post above.

There’s profits to taken, and I’m not getting any of it. I had a couple wins, that I planned to hold onto, but then it looked like the market was reversing.

I had a USD/NOK trade that was going well. And now it looks like it could be consolidating before a reversal. It was painful watching my profits get cut in half. I just closed it.

This morning was frustrating and I needed to just walk away for a bit.

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This might sound silly and a waste of time - but it might help to actually journal these and record whether you were right or wrong to have walked away. This will help boost your confidence in trusting your assessment of such situations.

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That’s a good idea. I’ve thought of that.

Lately, I haven’t done any journaling. Not seriously. Just a few trades.

I don’t have much time when I trade. It really really slows me down. I know there are programs for it, but if I am gonna trade, I think I’d prefer to do it myself.

I guess I don’t really have a good excuse for not journaling. It really takes just an extra minute to enter the info. Jeez, it’s not even really entering. It’s just the date, the pair, and copying the purchase price. It doesn’t get any easier.

But when they close, it’s more work…

I guess I just get lazy and don’t want to do it. I seem to keep starting and stopping journaling.

It may be time to slow it down and just do a few trades to get in the habit of journaling as I place orders or open positions.

I’ll have to think of a way to do this better.

I recently lost a trade with USD/CZK. And after looking at the trade again. I can’t make any sense of the price action. I couldn’t even remember what my trend lines were. That’s a bad sign. So, I took a look at the monthly. After reviewing the monthly, My only conclusion for the loss is that it’s really a good pair to trade. There has to be something to make sense of.

But I couldn’t really make sense of it. The price action should be so obvious that if I delete my trend lines, I should be able to draw the same exact lines again. This wasn’t the case. I was expecting price to bounce resistance, but it ended up breaking thru. I ended up jumping back in long.

Drawing the trend lines again makes me feel like I have no idea what price is trying to do or could be doing. There’s nothing to really base my educated guess on. I’ll keep an eye on this pair periodically, but I won’t be trading it until I see something quite obvious.

the monthly:

Now I am really disappointed! This is precisely the attitude of the typical lazy loser!! They just want the thrill of throwing around a bunch of trades expecting to win big and then whine when they lose - and then say they can¨t be bothered to do the ground work.

In my opinion, I am sorry to say that I find that kind of attitude to be a total disgrace to the profession of market trading. Trading is NOT gambling. It is a serious profession and one needs to work and seek excellence in one’s professionalism. How about a doctor who says he can’t be bothered to keep up with new research, illnesses, medicines, cures, etc?

You are not doing this. You are describing your trading like a series of daytrips to Las Vegas.

Some say that success in trading only begins once it has become boring. In other words, the background work is more demanding and time-consuming than the trade itself. I also believe that.

You are a sole trader and your own boss. That is a good thing but it is also the devil in your work. Ask yourself this: “If I was employed as a trader and I gave the above statement to my boss as the reason for my poor results, would I still have a job tomorrow?”

I have no right to criticise your approach but I do have the right to decide who and what I respond to - and this was a big set back! :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Apologies for these harsh words but I hate to see potential talent wasting their time and opportunities through what you yourself called “lazy”.

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I totally agree with @SovoS opinion. I was shocked when I saw the bit about journalling and even typed something out, only to discard it because I thought I was being a total d|ck. I’m glad Sovos put it out there.

If it’s intended to be a serious source of income then there’s really no excuse. It has to be treated like you would a business and a journal has to be maintained as you would your accounting/taxes. It’s really that simple.

Heck, just make it a part of your rules. Don’t open a trade if you’re not willing to journal it. That’s what I’ve done.

:100:

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I appreciate the honest criticism. I’m disappointed in myself as well. I have to be accountable. That’s why I’m sharing it. It’s nice to share when you win, and hide whenever you lose.

But that’s a false illusion. I’m acknowleding that I’m not doing right. It’s the truth.

At this very moment I’m reviewing my losses and logging them.

And “the disciplined trader” says “if you can’t log your trades, you’re trading too much.”

This is a process for me. And there will be set backs. I’m not quitting. I’m just taking a step back to correct my habits.

And if I have to run just two trades per week for a while, so be it.

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The best time to do the journalling is right after the trade has closed. But I don’t do that. I do the journalling in the same session as I look at the next trade opportunities - BEFORE I look at any live results. Why did I decide to do this? Well, after journalling, it is fresh in your mind those things you NEED TO STOP DOING, and at least you will not make that same mistake on the very next trades.
If you stick at this journal, you will overcome your lack of consistency.

I imagine I have a parrot on each shoulder. I listen to the right one because it’s almost always the left one that kicks off. It goes like this - Left Parrot (LP) - you really fooked up on that last trade, you idiot. Better get back in there and make some trades. Right Parrot (RP). Don’t listen to LP. He gets you into trouble. You have spent years learning that if you follow to the letter what you have written, the task always gets finished, you always feel better, you more often than not make the right decisions. LP. Don’t listen to that dirtbag. He’s REALLY BOOORRRRRRINNNNNGGGGGG!.

Parrots go back in their boxes. I pull out the trade journal and enter the results and comments. End of story.

BTW, I don’t do this every time, but if I have really fallen behind, I have to go back to my desk diary where I write results in almost unintelligible hand writing. If it is a week, or even a month, I have less recall, but some recall because I write it down. This does need a robotic temperament. Since 1999, my diary entries include all the things I spend and from which source (personal bank, business bank, credit card, top up card, you name it. I create a separate line item for each line item with a unique voucher number. Every week (or two weeks), I get my diary out and enter the costs in a spreadsheet - a workbook, that contains every spend entry since 1999 with one tab per year. I am up to voucher number V21588.

Yes, it is really boring isn’t it? But it makes me sleep well at night. Go kill the left parrot.

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OK, so let’s go through a question/answer session:

Do i want to eventually trade good size positions and make worthwhile profits?

Can I ever do that if I am not consistently earning profits?

But can I earn profits consistently and not consistently do the work that defines the trades?

Contrary to what one might think, it is NOT the trades that earn you the money it is all the work that defines the trades worth taking that really earns the money - and yet you are neglecting the work in order to just take trades.

Yes, you love trading, we all do. But it is like loving driving your car. You want to drive whenever possible, but you cannot neglect looking after your car and servicing it, etc, just because it wastes time that could be spent driving it - and then moaning when it keeps breaking down by the roadside…it is the caring for your car that consistently gets you to your destination…so what IS your trading destination?

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There’s really no other way to say it.

Last month, my account dropped about 30%. Then I started trading the entire market, and trade after trade, for 3 or 4 weeks straight I was picking good trades. I ended up being 10% up from the previous month, and 40% overall increase.

And that was with risk management. Each trade was 0.75% or less. But I was running so many trades at the same time. I was able to keep track of them also.

So, I did ok, and then it seemed to all fall apart.

David Paul said, “it’s not the bad trades that ruin you, it’s the good ones”.

And to be honest, I don’t know the difference between what I did then and what I’m doing now. I didn’t journal anything.

Anyway, this morning, I took my time. I opened one market order and two limit orders. I journaled them and used my checklist. It felt slow, but I felt good in the end.

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I’m slowing down for a little while. I was thinking that instead of scanning 20+ charts, perhaps I can eliminate some that are just not worth trading. My mind says “but what if there’s a good set up one day?”

Well, I can’t catch every single trade. And what’s the point if splitting my attention across so many charts is actually causing me to lose?

I started elminating some charts. I can either have a rotating list of what I’m trading, or create a list of 10 or so pairs and only trade those.

Both options have pros and cons.

I think I prefer a rotation list.

I should eliminate the pairs with little volatility, then keep reviewing charts as I am now.

Once I see set ups developing, I can create a watchlist, and just focus on those pairs for the time being.

I’ll play with it a bit.

But there’s nothing wrong with taking a step back to regroup.

If I want results, then I gotta act like it.

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It’s funny because I was feeling several emotions: frustrated, disappointed, and discouraged.

I had an appointment today so, I had to ride my bike to an area I never go to.

And you know what? It actually helped clear my head!

I was thinking to myself, “I can do this! Just keep at it. You got this!”

But it can’t be a continuation of the same I was just doing. Getting charged up to repeat the same mistake will turn into a viscious cycle.

I’m gonna make a list of a few things to work on when I get home. A battle plan, if you will.

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